Quote:
Originally Posted by D33tracer
ok, first off this guy: "Y3KC4IVI 5UCR4IVI" WWWWWAAAAAYYYYY TTTTTOOOO MMMUUUUCCCCCCHHHH TTTTTIIIIMMMMMEEEEE on ur hands. I stopped reading once you started complaining about the rules of UMP. UMP hosts the best set of rules there ever was, thats why they havent changed.
That's why they haven't huh?
The body rules have changed multiple times since 1985. They're now, bless Bob Memmer's soul, running cars that allow wider bodies than he ever wanted to see, and larger sails than he wanted, and now you can run the nosepiece wider than the front wheels (all of which creates less aero-drag and helps build greater downforce, for more speed) thanks to adopting the UDSCBR-style bodies that UDTRA (formerly H-A-T) hawked back in the early 1990's. If they adopt the WoO body rules under UMP (part of DIRT) they'll be even wider yet again. Do you remember when a UMP LM had it's wheels sticking out in the air as much almost as many UMP modifieds do today? I do.
The tire rules are changing for 2005 from 4 compounds to 2. That's a change.
The licensing has changed for 2005 (at least according to WoO's website), and likely will once it's renamed, which judging by Kruger's past statements in Area Auto Racing News it will all be known as DIRT with 12 different divisions being sanctioned under the combined umbrella.
UMP has lost more tracks over the course of time than they've regained. Use some common sense. It's not just the tracks ****ing, because if there was racers there'd be a demand for a track in these areas where the tracks supposedly **** so bad that something new would spring up out of another tracks' ashes, or someone would buy it and make it good enough racers would fluorish if what you're saying is true. That "IS NOT" the case.
The fact is... few tracks in these areas get enough cars to stay afloat, whether run good, awful, or awesome or having a dumpy facility or a Taj Mahal (KLMS comes to mind). Even tracks like Danville went from a weekly LM track to a weekly mod track. Kankakee and Crown Point last year dumped UMP for LM's. Hales Corners (UMP) closed and it's pseudo-replacement is not UMP-inspired, but SUPR-inspired where the cost of a competitive engine is cut in half on entry. You can run a competitive WISSOTA car in the series, and Russ Scheffler brought out a spec engine and proved the package's strength winning a WDLMA show with it.
All of the Arizona UMP-LM sanctioned tracks of the early 1990's are gone, but there's a growing (keyword) body of NON-UMP LM's out there built with an option for a lower cost entry (similar to SUPR's). In fact all of the sanctions that have some semblance of growth, many times out of "NOTHING" for running UMP-esque exclusive rules (favors "1" engine package)... are running SUPR inclusive-inspired rulebooks. From OZ Late Models in freakin' Australia to Pacific Coast and Western XTreme. If not for these rules... there'd be no supporting cast out west to run an Early Thaw. Even I-30 in Arkansas is adopting more and more LM events, many of which are SUPR. It's a weekly SPRINT track.
$30k open motors for $1,000 to win or less is not "grassroots hobbyist" and is "NOTHING" of what Memmer's original vision for UMP supposedly dictates. Yet it's all a big case of "Do as I do not as I say". That's to mean... ::wink, wink:: I'm here for you Mr. Local Grassroots racer. ::wink, wink:: If they really were... why did they do a sensationalistic $100k for a long-flawed point system, and putting $ up to lure big namers to their Summernationals rather than continue on with a more regional racing series (PROS) which had greater potential to promote weekly racers in UMP up into stars like other regional series did (i.e. STARS, NALMS in it's heyday, BoB, etc.)?
If it was about the weekly racer... $200,000 (of the $300k) could've been spread rather nicely throughout the entire UMP points fund and helped more *REAL* weekly racers out who put out a ton of effort, rather than leave the barn door open for someone to exploit the failure of a terrible point system knowing full-well that the rulebooks as they are, are not promoting healthy racing facilities' in *MAJORITY* under UMP. Even I-55 for a weekly track isn't drawing more than 20-25 (not far off from that 18 minimum #), whereas some Northern IL tracks draw 30+ for quite awhile. That # even there is starting to shrink slowly even as competition (like Hales closing, Santa Fe closing) should dictate they should increase if what you're saying is true.
That's before I mention that Bureau County Speedway in Princeton ran a non-UMP rulebook in 2004 and actually grew their car count....
Quote:
The tracks that dont draw 18 or better, thats b/c the tracks are JUNK. has nothin to do with the rules.
If the cars were cheaper to enter in, you'd have more cars per class with greater potential for "LARGER" purses, regardless of the facilities'. Even some of the better tracks, like Danville, IL; have struggled to draw LM's. That's why they're no longer running there! Danville was a success for a lonnnnnnnnnng time, and it still gets a strong car and fan turnout. Don't give me b.s. about it being a crappy track with no fans and that's why they don't have LM's to support the place. LoL
Look at Sycamore Speedway in IL. It's not UMP. Their top class costs considerably less than a UMP tracks'. The track isn't run that well, nor is it anything to speak of, and they typically draw more SLM's than most tracks. They also have a far larger average field than most tracks. Why? It's a lottttttttttt cheaper to race out there than most UMP tracks.
Danville... draws more cars than many tracks in UMP do. Yet it doesn't have a SLM class to speak of, and therefore their top class costs less than a full blown LM!
Shadyhill. That facility is run terrible. I went for a mod special this past year and their first feature didn't start 'til 1am, and that's without qualifying. They still outdraw most of the tracks (have umpteen classes, many of which get good turnouts, and most of which are cheaper than UMP mods) even with a track surface prep that resembled something more akin to Baja than a dirt oval track.
Quote:
they doo need to make changes to the national pt series though, Rodney finally proved he is worth something last year, however, that guy that keeps gettin second, is crap. They guy cant even make a show with more than 18 cars, so it does need to be changed.
I will agree with you that it needs to be changed, but if the rules were changed to allow a lower cost of entry, more mod drivers would move up, the mod classes rules could be restructured to "TRULY" be a mid-level class as they were intended (i.e. lower cost of entry to competition), and you'd have more move up from Street Stocks instead of dropping tons of dough into street stocks to go faster because mods are out of their reach. Moral of the story, the thing would tier and scale properly (like any successfully devised racing system), rather than be one big stagnating and shrinking pile of crap.
Look at Fastrak. In one season it drew 50+ cars for a travelling series. That's unheard of. Why? IT'S CHEAPER TO BUY INTO AND BE COMPETITIVE OUT OF THE BOX! It's more grassroots oriented! Yes you can build a cheap car to enter at another track... but you won't be remotely competitive with your investment (not arguing on talent/ability to win out of the box. Few rookies jump into something out of the box and win a title, much less a race even... but it's more possible in a crate-related series than anywhere else) until your "OVERALL" investment is equal to or greater than Fastrak and other crate series'. Therefore per year your investment might be less, but your overall investment will be considerable in the end to keep up with the Jones'.
As far as the length of my post... I'm sorry that I type 80 wpm and you can't read quick enough. That's not my fault. As the old saying goes:
"Practice Makes Perfect."
Give it a go. You might be able to read my posts soon enough from extra practice. After all, it's a messageboard. If they wanted pretty pictures though for ya'll that can't keep pace reading... I could probably do some flowcharts and diagrams for 'ya. Might give 'ya less room to complain.
- Y3KC4IVI 5UCR4IVI -
Originally Posted by D33tracer
ok, first off this guy: "Y3KC4IVI 5UCR4IVI" WWWWWAAAAAYYYYY TTTTTOOOO MMMUUUUCCCCCCHHHH TTTTTIIIIMMMMMEEEEE on ur hands. I stopped reading once you started complaining about the rules of UMP. UMP hosts the best set of rules there ever was, thats why they havent changed.
That's why they haven't huh?
The body rules have changed multiple times since 1985. They're now, bless Bob Memmer's soul, running cars that allow wider bodies than he ever wanted to see, and larger sails than he wanted, and now you can run the nosepiece wider than the front wheels (all of which creates less aero-drag and helps build greater downforce, for more speed) thanks to adopting the UDSCBR-style bodies that UDTRA (formerly H-A-T) hawked back in the early 1990's. If they adopt the WoO body rules under UMP (part of DIRT) they'll be even wider yet again. Do you remember when a UMP LM had it's wheels sticking out in the air as much almost as many UMP modifieds do today? I do.
The tire rules are changing for 2005 from 4 compounds to 2. That's a change.
The licensing has changed for 2005 (at least according to WoO's website), and likely will once it's renamed, which judging by Kruger's past statements in Area Auto Racing News it will all be known as DIRT with 12 different divisions being sanctioned under the combined umbrella.
UMP has lost more tracks over the course of time than they've regained. Use some common sense. It's not just the tracks ****ing, because if there was racers there'd be a demand for a track in these areas where the tracks supposedly **** so bad that something new would spring up out of another tracks' ashes, or someone would buy it and make it good enough racers would fluorish if what you're saying is true. That "IS NOT" the case.
The fact is... few tracks in these areas get enough cars to stay afloat, whether run good, awful, or awesome or having a dumpy facility or a Taj Mahal (KLMS comes to mind). Even tracks like Danville went from a weekly LM track to a weekly mod track. Kankakee and Crown Point last year dumped UMP for LM's. Hales Corners (UMP) closed and it's pseudo-replacement is not UMP-inspired, but SUPR-inspired where the cost of a competitive engine is cut in half on entry. You can run a competitive WISSOTA car in the series, and Russ Scheffler brought out a spec engine and proved the package's strength winning a WDLMA show with it.
All of the Arizona UMP-LM sanctioned tracks of the early 1990's are gone, but there's a growing (keyword) body of NON-UMP LM's out there built with an option for a lower cost entry (similar to SUPR's). In fact all of the sanctions that have some semblance of growth, many times out of "NOTHING" for running UMP-esque exclusive rules (favors "1" engine package)... are running SUPR inclusive-inspired rulebooks. From OZ Late Models in freakin' Australia to Pacific Coast and Western XTreme. If not for these rules... there'd be no supporting cast out west to run an Early Thaw. Even I-30 in Arkansas is adopting more and more LM events, many of which are SUPR. It's a weekly SPRINT track.
$30k open motors for $1,000 to win or less is not "grassroots hobbyist" and is "NOTHING" of what Memmer's original vision for UMP supposedly dictates. Yet it's all a big case of "Do as I do not as I say". That's to mean... ::wink, wink:: I'm here for you Mr. Local Grassroots racer. ::wink, wink:: If they really were... why did they do a sensationalistic $100k for a long-flawed point system, and putting $ up to lure big namers to their Summernationals rather than continue on with a more regional racing series (PROS) which had greater potential to promote weekly racers in UMP up into stars like other regional series did (i.e. STARS, NALMS in it's heyday, BoB, etc.)?
If it was about the weekly racer... $200,000 (of the $300k) could've been spread rather nicely throughout the entire UMP points fund and helped more *REAL* weekly racers out who put out a ton of effort, rather than leave the barn door open for someone to exploit the failure of a terrible point system knowing full-well that the rulebooks as they are, are not promoting healthy racing facilities' in *MAJORITY* under UMP. Even I-55 for a weekly track isn't drawing more than 20-25 (not far off from that 18 minimum #), whereas some Northern IL tracks draw 30+ for quite awhile. That # even there is starting to shrink slowly even as competition (like Hales closing, Santa Fe closing) should dictate they should increase if what you're saying is true.
That's before I mention that Bureau County Speedway in Princeton ran a non-UMP rulebook in 2004 and actually grew their car count....
Quote:
The tracks that dont draw 18 or better, thats b/c the tracks are JUNK. has nothin to do with the rules.
If the cars were cheaper to enter in, you'd have more cars per class with greater potential for "LARGER" purses, regardless of the facilities'. Even some of the better tracks, like Danville, IL; have struggled to draw LM's. That's why they're no longer running there! Danville was a success for a lonnnnnnnnnng time, and it still gets a strong car and fan turnout. Don't give me b.s. about it being a crappy track with no fans and that's why they don't have LM's to support the place. LoL
Look at Sycamore Speedway in IL. It's not UMP. Their top class costs considerably less than a UMP tracks'. The track isn't run that well, nor is it anything to speak of, and they typically draw more SLM's than most tracks. They also have a far larger average field than most tracks. Why? It's a lottttttttttt cheaper to race out there than most UMP tracks.
Danville... draws more cars than many tracks in UMP do. Yet it doesn't have a SLM class to speak of, and therefore their top class costs less than a full blown LM!
Shadyhill. That facility is run terrible. I went for a mod special this past year and their first feature didn't start 'til 1am, and that's without qualifying. They still outdraw most of the tracks (have umpteen classes, many of which get good turnouts, and most of which are cheaper than UMP mods) even with a track surface prep that resembled something more akin to Baja than a dirt oval track.
Quote:
they doo need to make changes to the national pt series though, Rodney finally proved he is worth something last year, however, that guy that keeps gettin second, is crap. They guy cant even make a show with more than 18 cars, so it does need to be changed.
I will agree with you that it needs to be changed, but if the rules were changed to allow a lower cost of entry, more mod drivers would move up, the mod classes rules could be restructured to "TRULY" be a mid-level class as they were intended (i.e. lower cost of entry to competition), and you'd have more move up from Street Stocks instead of dropping tons of dough into street stocks to go faster because mods are out of their reach. Moral of the story, the thing would tier and scale properly (like any successfully devised racing system), rather than be one big stagnating and shrinking pile of crap.
Look at Fastrak. In one season it drew 50+ cars for a travelling series. That's unheard of. Why? IT'S CHEAPER TO BUY INTO AND BE COMPETITIVE OUT OF THE BOX! It's more grassroots oriented! Yes you can build a cheap car to enter at another track... but you won't be remotely competitive with your investment (not arguing on talent/ability to win out of the box. Few rookies jump into something out of the box and win a title, much less a race even... but it's more possible in a crate-related series than anywhere else) until your "OVERALL" investment is equal to or greater than Fastrak and other crate series'. Therefore per year your investment might be less, but your overall investment will be considerable in the end to keep up with the Jones'.
As far as the length of my post... I'm sorry that I type 80 wpm and you can't read quick enough. That's not my fault. As the old saying goes:
"Practice Makes Perfect."
Give it a go. You might be able to read my posts soon enough from extra practice. After all, it's a messageboard. If they wanted pretty pictures though for ya'll that can't keep pace reading... I could probably do some flowcharts and diagrams for 'ya. Might give 'ya less room to complain.
- Y3KC4IVI 5UCR4IVI -
