My take on the question of the week (sanction vs no sanction)

Doug

Announcer
There has been alot of talk recently about one of the St. Louis tracks considering a move away from UMP in favor of something else. This move is not unprecedented, as Tri City Speedway left the UMP fold in the mid 1990's and spent a number of years racing under the NASCAR banner. Most who raced TCS during that era say they had fun and prices were fairly well contained. And that brings us to the topic of my latest brainstorm.

Actually, it's something I have been tallking to Tim Herbst about for a number of years, even predating our ill-fated attempt at sustaining the CARS sanction some ten years ago. We have been saying how the current cost spiral is not sustainable, and will eventually lead to the face of our sport changing. Naysayers then said we were "Chicken Littles," claiming the sky was falling, and many still believe that. But the proof is becoming more clear all the time. If you haven't heard, there was a recent meeting between some of the power players in St. Louis motorsports (of the dirt track variety) discussing possible options other than UMP. Belle - Claire Speedway's promoter recently put it out there on Facebook that there is a possibility that track may do something different in the future, which has brough about passionate responses both for and against the move. So what are the chances of that happening? At this point, I'm not sure anyone knows.

Don't say it can't happen. 20 years ago you could see a good sprint car show nearly any time you wanted to and didn't have to drive too far. But now most 410 sprint car racing is limited to the touring MOWA series. Late Models are not immune from the same fate. Could the division survive if it prices itself out of existence like iots open-wheel brethren did a generation ago? I had a chance to talk to MOWA Announcer Dewayne Hewlett about how the organization came about, and you can listen to that here: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=93007174237&story_fbid=10152683531394238

But now I've gotten off track. Back to the conversation Tim and I have had over the course of not only this season, but much of our recent history. Obviously something needs to be done to contain costs. For the support classes, neither of us see where they need to be nationally sanctioned. Come up with a sensible set of cost cutting rules. Follow those rules, and consistently enforce them. That goes for on-track behavior as well - strict and consistent. In the upper divisions, there are two schools of thought. We could either blow it all up and start from scratch, or take the existing Late Models and Modifieds and try to get things under control again. It's no secret that some of the top Modified teams are spending what was once considered to be a good Late Model budget, and some former champions of the Modified division are now running B-Mods. Marty Smith Jr. and John Stanton are two examples that immediately come to mind.

The modifieds, when first introduced to this area, were a support division. A replacement for the Econo Late Models (which died due to a lack of rules enforcement and the subsequent escalating costs) and a stepping stone from Street Stocks to the Late Models. At some point the class for most became a destination rather than a bridge from a beginner's class to the featured division. And that's fine if that's where you are most comfortable. My suggestion is to reign in both the mods and late models, but how do you do that? The simple answer is that there is no simple answer. Harder tires seem to be universally accepted as a way to make sure that even if you are making a gazillion horsepower, you aren't hooking it all up. But how about motors?

In the Late Models, at least for the weekly show, powerplants need some restrictions. I'm not saying a move to crate engines only, but some formula that keeps crates in the mix, and allows teams with their unlimited engines to get enough life out of them to live to their next rebuild before they have to sell them or put them in the corner of the shop. If you want to run a big time unlimited show, drop your big motor back in just for that special event. Mike "Wahoo" Jones did something similar this weekend at DuQuoin in his B-Mod. According to a Facebook post, he "Gave her a transplant and a lot of work." That is what we're talking about. Keeping the basics of the car the same for the weekly racer, so that with a change of motor and tires you can head off to race in that big show, wherever it is.

And finally back to the sanction. Is one needed? That's a matter of opinion, and strength in numbers. Going it alone might not work as well as it did for Bob Wente in the 1990's and early 2000's. Say what you will about the way things were, but remember this - as the only track going against the UMP powerhouses, he managed to not only survive, but make a living (yes, he was a full-time promoter) doing things differently. His strength was the restrictive rules in the support classes, and the NASCAR banner for the top division. Want another example? Tim Herbst at Greenville. Right before Wente brought him in to Tri City, he was running a successful non-sanctioned show at a fairgrounds track that had little in the way of support from many of the "names." But what he did have was a group of budget racers who were there every week and put on a good show.

So where do we go from here? I've always been a fan of thinking outside the box, so let's hear some of your suggestions. Keep it on track, no name calling, and be prepared to defend your idea.
 
SORRY DOUG LEAVE THINGS ALONE and sprints run most every weekend at jacksonville and farmington if NASCAR was so great than what happened
 
Doug, the biggest problem is promoters are afraid to enforce the rules because they believe they will lose cars and they just might lose a few but, I think in the long run they will gain more then they lose just by enforcing the rules.

Now as far as rules they have to come up with a good set of cost cutting rules. What those are is better left up to the guys that know a lot more than I do..

Rules have to be enforced each and every week. At least check something every week and don't let them know what you will be checking.
 
We could either blow it all up and start from scratch, or take the existing Late Models and Modifieds and try to get things under control again.

Harder tires seem to be universally accepted as a way to make sure that even if you are making a gazillion horsepower,

I'm not saying a move to crate engines only, but some formula that keeps crates in the mix, and allows teams with their unlimited engines to get enough life out of them to live to their next rebuild before they have to sell them or put them in the corner of the shop

And finally back to the sanction. Is one needed? That's a matter of opinion, and strength in numbers.

and be prepared to defend your idea.

These conversation points are exactly what entry level racers want to hear. There are a f-ton used chassis and parts ready for a budget driver to get and begin racing in these top classes. A little leveling of the field will not keep my favorite drivers out of the fight and will let newbies like me get a chance to build some skills and possibly kick some ass living the dream.
The most talented drivers could race garbage or cement trucks and always end up on top. They deserve a place to showcase their skills. Weekly racers who drop a ton of money and time to improve their skill and dominate their local tracks are not the enemy, until their effort alienates a weekly driver through unreasonable rule or sanction.
 
a big issue at hand is tech. for years allied had a tech guy, but rarely checked anything. this year its better, but its a long process. rules enforcement by nature will cut cost. throw in a few actual cost cutting rules and we may have something.

what cost more? stock trailing arms with zero drag bushings, or swedge tube with heims? how about 4-6 adjustable shocks vs 14 non adjustable shocks. lets look at it realistic and actually save the racer some bucks. i guarantee the cost of starting a race team keeps alot of guys from driving. myself included. but like at a gas station, when prices drop ppl come in droves.

Let ump price themselves out. This area has some incredibly smart and passionate ppl, so lets figure something out. It will get worse before it gets better, but its better than losing local racers because they filed bankrupt.
 
http://speedwaybenefits.com/track-owners-promoters-11-things-trouble/

Read that. Tells you all you need to know from the Master of being a track promoter.

Notice he doesn't say "have the Biggest and Most Well Known Sanction in the area" at your track.

He does say,however, run 4 classes, have 100 cars, and keep the total cost for the night under $10,000.

Add up the LM and Modified UMP purse, it's over $10,000 for just those two classes. And people wonder why they can't make money with a racetrack. It's pretty obvious when you can't even pay your top two classes the purse the sanctions says you should pay without exceeding the $10,000 limit. And as long as you pay that big purse, racers will continually spiral costs exponentially upward to win it.

Look a the Hornet class. When it started at TCS, it was a trophy class. People put a cage in a car, and if they did an engine rebuild they were really spending a lot of money to win. And that class had 30 to 40 cars every night. As soon as the first guy said ok, let's race for a purse, racers started spending money like they were printing it at home to win. Now its way out of control, and costs continue to rise.

He also says 4-5 passes for the lead in every feature. when was the last time anyone can remember seeing that? It rarely happens. The hot dogs get out front, they bump each other a couple times, then they string out and that's it until a back marker brings out a caution. Rarely are guys passing of the lead past the first 3 laps in the features. I have no idea how you fix that, unless you start with some seriously restrictive rules to keep em evened up.

He also doesn't say anything about having big traveling shows multiple times each season at your track. His advice is have a big show at the beginning and end of the year and sell a bunch of tickets in advance.

I think Humpy Wheeler is pretty much as knowledgable a promoter as you can find anywhere. I would listen closely to what the guy has to say if I wanted to run a successful track. And also pay attention to what he doesn't tell you you have to do.
 
Last edited:
http://speedwaybenefits.com/track-owners-promoters-11-things-trouble/

Read that. Tells you all you need to know from the Master of being a track promoter.

Notice he doesn't say "have the Biggest and Most Well Known Sanction in the area" at your track.

He does say,however, run 4 classes, have 100 cars, and keep the total cost for the night under $10,000.

Add up the LM and Modified UMP purse, it's over $10,000 for just those two classes. And people wonder why they can't make money with a racetrack. It's pretty obvious when you can't even pay your top two classes the purse the sanctions says you should pay without exceeding the $10,000 limit. And as long as you pay that big purse, racers will continually spiral costs exponentially upward to win it.

Look a the Hornet class. When it started at TCS, it was a trophy class. People put a cage in a car, and if they did an engine rebuild they were really spending a lot of money to win. And that class had 30 to 40 cars every night. As soon as the first guy said ok, let's race for a purse, racers started spending money like they were printing it at home to win. Now its way out of control, and costs continue to rise.

He also says 4-5 passes for the lead in every feature. when was the last time anyone can remember seeing that? It rarely happens. The hot dogs get out front, they bump each other a couple times, then they string out and that's it until a back marker brings out a caution. Rarely are guys passing of the lead past the first 3 laps in the features. I have no idea how you fix that, unless you start with some seriously restrictive rules to keep em evened up.

He also doesn't say anything about having big traveling shows multiple times each season at your track. His advice is have a big show at the beginning and end of the year and sell a bunch of tickets in advance.

I think Humpy Wheeler is pretty much as knowledgable a promoter as you can find anywhere. I would listen closely to what the guy has to say if I wanted to run a successful track. And also pay attention to what he doesn't tell you you have to do.
yeah humpy wants legend cars and the such
 
  1. At least two to three rollovers! Please, I am not a freak, but flips are great entertainment. If you have an asphalt track with low riding late models, when is the last time you have seen one? Raise those front ends at least 3-5 inches!
  2. A total cost of less than $10,000 per night…ok, you guys who run the sprints are a little different, but the show is worth it.
  3. A simple menu in concessions: great all beef dog on a steamed bun; wonderful, tasty quality, juicy hamburger and little more other than the soft drink, beer, chips, etc. Put the candy, ice cream, specialty items in separate areas so you do not clog up concession areas.
  4. BIGGIE: Do you have a villain yet? If not, forget the kids. They MUST have a good guy/bad guy, and if you don’t, the kids are gone mentally…Just forget them. That is what makes every Monster Truck Show, cartoon, etc. work: A VILLIAN!
  5. Clean, clean everything….from the restrooms (especially the girls) to the seats. Do you clean your seats the day of the event? If not, consider yourself in the Old Promoters Graveyard! How long would movie theaters last with dirty seats?
  6. Big Show? Do you have a Big Show at the start and end of the season and are you selling at least 600 reserved seats to the event in ADVANCE? If not, join those Old Promoters in their Graveyard. Think about it….Your October show is the Pulaski Tire 200 (laps with stops) and you charge $25 in advance and sell 1000 seats. That is $25,000 in the bank! What will you think if you have a rainout? Lucky Dog! Buy some of those seats the big NASCAR tracks will get rid of as they downsize due to a lack of drama, color, no rivalries, etc.
That is pretty simple folks. The tracks that are doing the above are doing fine. Those that don’t are in trouble.some good some really now
 
SORRY DOUG LEAVE THINGS ALONE and sprints run most every weekend at jacksonville and farmington if NASCAR was so great than what happened
Simple answer, Hound--the track was NASCAR sanctioned the last year Bobby ran it; then Kevin bought it and obviously decided against further NASCAR sanctioning. And it was great, its insurance benefits only one of the outstanding benefits.
 
When tri city was nascar ask most drivers and they would tell you it was a good deal. As far as bob running the track ill tell you this. First off if you had a problem it got settled then and there. And he wasnt afraid to get involved as well. Second when i flipped he made sure personally i was taken care of. Not saying other owners dont do things like that but he was pretty personable to handling situations and ran a tight ship.
 
Simple answer, Hound--the track was NASCAR sanctioned the last year Bobby ran it; then Kevin bought it and obviously decided against further NASCAR sanctioning. And it was great, its insurance benefits only one of the outstanding benefits.
Actuality, the track didn't run any sanction the last year under Wente, I worked as the Weekly Race Director the last two years Bob owned it, the first was under the NASCAR banner, the second year we ran Steel Block Late Models, A-Mods, Sportsmen, Street Stocks, and Hornets and averaged over 100 cars per night all on the 1/4 mile ALL UNSANCTIONED. - Tim Herbst
 
the problem with the teching is that they only tech certain people guys like korte and kreke ray walsh tray harris are not gonna get tec because tec along wit drivers know they will fail and promotors dont want that
 
Hound, you're making my head hurt from all the facepalming again. That comparison is apples and oranges. It was on a different night of the week and on a track that does not exist anymore. Ten years ago (during the last two years Bob owned the track) there was competition on Saturday nights from I-55, Highland, Montgomery County and for one of those years, Greenville. Greenville was actually kicking some major rear-end going the non-sanctioned route.

But fast forward ten years to now, and the only local competition on Friday's is between Tri City Belleville. On Saturdays, it's Highland vs. I-55. Car counts have been good for the most part in the upper classes, as has the competition, but the numbers in the support classes have fallen off with the exception of the B-Modifieds. And now the pie is only being sliced twice, instead of five times as it was a decade ago! I can't tell you how many racers have quit over that time frame, but the number would probably be shocking. Especially in the support divisions. So you can rationalize things any way you want, but the bottom line is we live in a different world now. To continue to do things just because "we've always done it that way" just doesn't cut it, but changing things without thinking it through to a logical conclusion would be no better. Personally, I'm conflicted on what path to take, but I know that change is in the air.
 
lets see 2004 the economy was alot better and the cost of living was a lot less back then the fact of the matter if tri city was so great back then then why the change and if you would notice all tracks had good car counts in 2004
 
Last edited:
Doug great post and i agree. There have been way more people quit versus getting into the sport. Whats it going to be like in 3 to 5 years from now. Crate class is withering away. Streets stocks are getting to where the sportsman class was money spent wise and look where they are currently. Only true blooming class is b mods. That class should be reigned in a little to keep costs down but they keep pulling cars in. Its scary. Korte is leaving. Several late models are thinking of quitting. A mods car counts have dropped. Street stock car counts have dropped considerably. Are we going to see the norm of -18 car count features regularly? Time will tell i guess.
 
but explain why the hornet class is drooping in cars counts thats suppose to be the cheapest class aro0und and a entrl level class
 
Hound, you proved my point with the observation that the economy is not what it was 10 years ago. Why do some tracks have 100 cars a night? Because there are fewer tracks, but fewer cars still active. Remember in 2004, Saturday nights in the St. Louis area was a four or five track option, each pulling 80-100 cars. So on the conservative side lets take 80 x 4 tracks. There's 320 cars / racers. Now there are two tracks. lets say both average 100 cars a night. That's only 200 cars / racers. If you do the math, it backs up the observation that there aren't as many people racing as there was as recently as 10 years ago.

Why? I think the biggest factor is the economy. But in the hornet class, I think you also have to throw in the perception that it is not a class where you can get a 4-cylinder car and just go have fun, at least niot like it used to be. T.Nie observed that the moment it went to a trophy only class to a class where it was $50 winner takes all, the car count was sliced in half. And personally, I think some may shy away from it because of safety reasons. The whole small car / big crash idea.

In summary, I can't buy groceries for what I made in 2004, so I have had to make changes. If you can't increase what is available to you, you must scale back to survive. Same can be said for our sport. If nothing changes, what will survive?
 




Back
Top