Excessive cautions & shows lasting too late..

jdearing

jdearing

Administrator
Staff member
There has been a lot of discussion lately on shows getting over too late and being drug out too long. So, I thought I'd throw out some of my opinions on how things could be better.

1. No tolerance rule for drivers stopping for no reason! If you don't like how the race started and you pull up and stop because you didn't get a good start, you restart on the back. If you roll to a stop some other time during the race, you get penalized one lap.

2. One good rule for a track like Tri-City which has no walls in the turns would be zero-tolerance for spinning over the banking and sitting there to bring out the caution. You spin over the banking and cause a caution, your done for that event!

3. Limit the caution flags during the consolation races. After 3 or maybe 4 cautions, automatically do a green, white and then checkered on the next restart.

4. Drivers stopping to talk or complain to officials should be black flagged or put one lap down.

5. Strictly enforce the two spin rule (most tracks do). In the heat races, I think you could go to a one spin rule. If you spin all by yourself and bring out the caution, your done for that event. I think you'd be surprised at how well the handling improved on a lot of cars!

6. Tow truck operators need to improve at a lot of tracks. At many tracks, the tow truck drivers are standing around and when the caution comes out, they are standing there waiting to be told they are needed. If the caution is out, the tow truck and push truck should be rolling toward the incident immediately. It is better to be there quickly and not be needed than to wait around on them. Also, have sufficient tow/push trucks on hand.

7. Track crews working on cars under caution. I know this is sometime a safety issue, but for the most part I think track personnel should not pull out sheet metal, etc... They have pit crews in the (hot)pit area, thats what they are for. Of course, they'd have to restart on the back.

Races running late are a big problem for me. But I think the dirt tracks need to attract new fans and so on. When someone visits a dirt track for the first time and are watching more caution laps than racing laps, they probably will never come back.

I know many will say that inexperienced drivers need that extra time on the track. Fact is, they will become better quicker if they don't always have that extra crutch of the caution to fall back on and have to keep things under control more.

Those are just ideas and I doubt any track will ever institute such stringent measures, but these are some things that could speed things up.
 
I usually don’t care what time the races are over myself either ‘cause I like being at the track… BUT even I get really annoyed watching a track with no racing going on. If someone new comes to the track that doesn’t have a real firm opinion formed yet on dirt track racing. They won’t come back if nearly half their time spent there is either watching an empty track or a track with cars parading around endlessly under caution.

My two thought on how to improve things are:

1) Stop the racecars, when the line-up is ready after a caution. Then realign ‘em! Man, it’s not always as easy to as you’d think to interpret an officials wave of and arm and a point finger when you’re rolling around in a pack of cars.

2) Have better trained or more experienced tow vehicle operators. At a few tracks I’ve watched guys stubble all over themselves trying to clear the track. Some just do not get the job done, despite having good quality wreckers and push trucks. Their inability to use the equipment, turns what should be a 5-minute clean up into 15 minutes. Do that a few times in one nights racing you’ve wasted an hour of everyone’s time.
 
I agree with alot of the ideas.I definetly think all tracks should stop the cars and realign them after the caution!All tracks and sanctions ive seen follow this rule keep the show moving much better than watching all the parade laps with drivers trying to find out where they belong and trying to get the drivers to let them in.
 
Wow

Well said and great ideas Jimmy!! Now like you said, actually getting the tracks to do something like any of those things is another story.
 
either that or just get rid of hornets lol jp but like cut them down to size if they have to many cars as in like 20 theres gunna be the more likely hood of a caution either that or find some other ways to eliminate the problem or just run them before intermission like they do at granite there is a way to figure out how to run 5 classes highland just dont know it yet either start early or something.
 
#1.... One way radios.........
#2..... If ya pull off the track for ANY reason your done......period
#3.....Can't touch the car on yellows and can only knock mud off,adjust tire preasure,or turn jack bolts or pull sheet metal on reds & only 2 crew members can approach car......CAN NOT CHANGE TIRES ON RED
#4..... 2 minute time limit for line ups.. no exceptions......miss the call for the heat and ya start tail in the semi... miss the call for the semi or feature go put it in the trailer.....
#5..... 2 spin rule "per night" strickley enforced....If ya can't figure out how to tighten it up go park it.......
#6..... stop on the track for ANY reason except to avoid a crash and you can go park it...
#7..... Flat tire....better luck next time...go park it
#8..... This ones for officials & drivers..... No reworking the track,don't like the track? just go home, this is the midwest and the tracks gonna be slick, Deal with it, Years ago in a midget on a half mile, # 2 developed a hole that would swallow a car and I was complaining about it cuzz it was about to rupture my kidneys and was scaring me to death,Old Stoogie Weyant says "Ya know boy every body else hasta drive thru it,but ya can always quit....We ran 3rd that night,broken seat mounts and all.....
Guess I'd be a tough official,although ya couldn't pay me enough to do the job, But I've just never ever seen any reason to be at a racetrack past 11:00
P.M. The 50 lap midget show at Bellville last year ? took 8 minutes or there abouts.....
 
Getting cars lined up and the track cleared is the real problem with long cautions. Officials pulling on sheet metal shouldn't really hold up a race, and it usually doesn't. Recovery crews need to be on the ball and quick about getting the track cleared. Racers need to be made to get in line and ready to restart. There is no reason for a guy to continue riding around on yellow in a spot that he is being pointed out of. The scorers decide who is where, and it doesn't matter what the drivers think. When the flagman points to you and the back of a car, just go there, trying to go infront of him is not going to get you moved up that spot it is just delaying the race. I think the two unassisted spin rule is a good one, and should be inforeced.

I try to do my part I go where the officials point me, and try not to cause cautions.
 
jdearing said:
There has been a lot of discussion lately on shows getting over too late and being drug out too long. So, I thought I'd throw out some of my opinions on how things could be better.



2. One good rule for a track like Tri-City which has no walls in the turns would be zero-tolerance for spinning over the banking and sitting there to bring out the caution. You spin over the banking and cause a caution, your done for that event!

3. Limit the caution flags during the consolation races. After 3 or maybe 4 cautions, automatically do a green, white and then checkered on the next restart.

4. Drivers stopping to talk or complain to officials should be black flagged or put one lap down.

5. Strictly enforce the two spin rule (most tracks do). In the heat races, I think you could go to a one spin rule. If you spin all by yourself and bring out the caution, your done for that event. I think you'd be surprised at how well the handling improved on a lot of cars!

6. Tow truck operators need to improve at a lot of tracks. At many tracks, the tow truck drivers are standing around and when the caution comes out, they are standing there waiting to be told they are needed. If the caution is out, the tow truck and push truck should be rolling toward the incident immediately. It is better to be there quickly and not be needed than to wait around on them. Also, have sufficient tow/push trucks on hand.

.
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I THINK ALL THESE ARE PRETTY GOOD RULES. EVERY TRACK EXCEPT ALLIED TRACKS(WHO HAPPEN TO HAVE THE BEST TOW TRUCK DRIVER I KNOW OF) HAVE A PROBLEM WITH CLEARING WRECKS.

THE GUYS AT TRI CITY ACT LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO CLEAR AN ILLEGALLY PARKED CAR. INSTEAD OF CLEARING A WRECK SO THOUSANDS CAN SEE RACING RESUME.

RULE #2?? THAT IS A TOUGH CALL. SOMETIMES GUYS GET RAN OUT THERE. AFTER NIGHT FALLS, I'M SURE ITS TOUGH TO SEE IF YOU TRY TO COME BACK ON THE TRACK DURING WHILE THE GREEN IS OUT. J/M/O
 
Speeding up the races, my 2 cents worth...

Tow truck drivers should be NEAR their towtruck, ready to jump in and go to the problem. I'll agree with PITDRIFTER, Bob Kaiser is the best! His truck may not be the prettiest around (I kinda like the blue door on the white truck), but he's a master at getting racecars apart without more damage inflicted to them than already has been.

Stop the traffic, make the cars sit until you get the line-up correct, then wave them on in the proper order the first time. They don't go until they get the wave. A lot of time and fuel is wasted in multiple yellow laps around the track. It drives me, and a lot of other fans crazy watching the parade laps, especially when one driver doesn't think he should be where he's put. And slow them down on the yellows--they can't tell what the flagmen are trying to tell them when they're going too fast. What's the hurry? It's a caution.

Give them fair warning when the race is to begin. I've seen races start up too quickly when the drivers aren't expecting it to start yet. So what happens?--they spin out to stop the race, and get a better start on the next go around. Someone should figure this out besides me. Sunday night at Tri-City, some of the drivers were still waving to the crowd when the race was starting. Either skip the wave lap and start racing, or do the wave lap and then start on the next lap.

2 unassisted spins and you're out! No exceptions. Black flag them. Stop the race until they get off the track. Don't put up with this childish behavior on the part of drivers who just won't get off the track, because sure as anything, they're going to cause some kind of trouble with a driver who doesn't deserve to be involved with someone who shouldn't even be out there anyway.

Now, a lot of the late nights are caused by many, many cars at the track, resulting in extra heat races, and numerous semi/consi races. If you have a big car count, then you have to expect a late night. People complain about the low numbers of cars at a track, and then when they get more cars on a given night, they complain that it took too long to run the races. Geez! You can't make people happy.

Inexperienced drivers---they have to learn somewhere, sometime to drive these racecars. It's not like driving on a road or highway like most of us do. I still think that you should start in the entry level classes and learn how to handle that car on the track before moving up. Starting in a Modified is nuts! That's probably the hardest-to-handle car out there, but for some reason, many new drivers start in that class, causing lots of cautions and wrecks because of their inexperience and inability to control the power of those motors. But, I guess that's their prerogative, if they so choose.

These are my opinions, all by myself. I've tried to learn something from the many nights of watching and observing over these 8 years of racing. :) I'm still learning.
 
I don't have a problem with letting the cars stay rolling(at a slow) pace during cautions. That is if every official is on the same page around the track. They need to be making line up changes as they circle. Not just the guy in turn 4 making them when they come by. If he is the only one doing it, if there are 3 changes to be made it can take several laps. Take TCS, they have an official on the front, back and in the corners. Once the line up is determined, each official could swap the cars as they come by. Shouldn't take more than a couple laps.

Reason I don't mind letting them circle slow is, some of the racers have to deal with motors heating up. Having them sit idle can sometimes make them get hotter. just my $.02:)
 
JD I especially agree with 5 & 6.
But add time limits to mains and heats. 1minute per lap. And 1 lap per car. So 20 cars 20 laps 20 minutes. Fewer cars fewer laps Fewer minutes, Get the Idea. I also hate how all the tracks around here only run sportsman, bombers, hornets, ministocks, Bmods fewer laps than that. Kinda ****s if one of those classes run flag to flag, it seems to me like they have been robbed.
 
I think sometimes drivers need to talk to the officials during cautions. Saturday at Highland I was in 5th and then got put in 7th, which was a shock to me and even the people that were in 6th and 7th and everyone else that I know. Also, sometimes drivers stop to point out debris.

Here is an idea to really speed up races and make it more exciting: 4 minute heat races and 10 minute features with no cautions or stoppages...................hmm
 
UMP probably wouldn't allow a track to do this in the LMs and Mods, but in the lower support classes, how about rewarding the class that runs the "cleanest"; that is, has the fewest yellows, by running their feature first the next week and giving them extra laps for their main? Conversely, the class that is the most plagued by "yellow fever" could have their laps cut and be forced to run their feature last the following week. Now you'd have the racers policing themselves.
 
Jimmy great ideas! The only one I don't particularly care for is #4, this would unfairly penalize a guy that stops to tell an official of a possible safety risk that they maybe did'nt see. (i.e. a peice of debris on the track, oil on the track, etc.).

One other idea I have that I wish more tracks would strictly adhere to is once the checkers fall on one race the next race needs to be pulling out on the track. If the racers aren't ready they start at the back. This isn't that difficult of a concept and it drastically speeds up a show.

The other biggie is LIMIT INTERMISSIONS! Or Eliminate intermissions either way but having a 30 minute intermissions is total crap! There's no reason for it. The intermission at TCS Sunday night was WAAAAY too long. If there must be one 5-10 mins should be plenty, just enough time for officials to hit the bathroom.
 
sometimes a 15 minute intermission wouldnt hurt.... sometimes the drivers also need it for working on cars and everything
 
Originally posted on April 27th... Time management.... my thoughts.

So much talk about the subject of time management lately. This very subject was brought up as a part of a bigger article in a recent addition of Racing Promotion Monthly . For 35 years, Racing Promotion Monthly has been the voice and forum for auto racing promoters. Billing itself as the idea newsletter for auto racing promoters, Racing Promotion Monthly, reports and opines on the industry, highlights trends, and showcases events and successful promotional ideas. So if I may offer the following passage, straight from the pages...

"NEVER RUN LATE... We don't care how you do it, but this year present a show no more than three hours long, preferably 2-1/2, and get it done by 10:00. Move time trials forward in the day, before fans arrive, or do away with them. Shorten heat races. Last year we kept notes. Most heats we saw were over (for all practical purposes) after 1/2 to 3/4s of the scheduled laps--usually half. Features were the same. Use a no-stop rule like Robert Lawton's. (Doug's note: For those not familiar with Lawton, he stages the IMCA Supernationals each year, promotes the Boone and Marshalltown, IA Speedways, and was voted Promoter of the Year in 1992, and Regional Promoter of the Year countless other times. The guy obviously knows a thing or two about running a race track.) C-Ray Hall (president of NCRA and promoter of Wichita,KS's 81 Speedway)reduced his spin-outs by three quarters last season with such a rule. One race night, he shortened his show by more than an hour. When you finish at 10pm, enforce a "no-move rule" in the pits after the races as CHUCK DEERY did, forcing drivers to stay and sign autographs and greet fans after the races. Remember, to make the most of our "accessible" stars they must greet fans while the fans are awake. Watch your fans. They'll tell you when you're done, even when you aren't. The time young parents leave with sleeping kids on their shoulders is the latest your show should finish."

In the same issue, they also talked about the benefits of using a passing-points system, citing I-55 Raceway and the WDRL Series as examples. Like drawing for an invert, the passing points system offers the fans a chance to see some action in the features that straight-up progressive format doesn't offer.

Just a few ideas, from those who have made a really good living promoting races around the country. Take them as they are intended: just a suggestion. Personally, I really like the no-stop rule. What are your thoughts?
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I'm still a big fan of the no-stop rule. I work in the special education department at an Illinois high school, and one of the things that I have learned is that people will perform to their expectations, at least a majority of the time. If the expectation is that they leave after they bring out the caution, they will find a way to keep from spinning.
 
A lot of good idea's, The one I would like to see most is when the race is called, the drivers have only so much time to get on the track, if not, they dont race. Tracks should enforce this rule. Call the race, They have 2-5 mins to get out there. after the time limit, the track is closed. those out there get to race. Those not.. go sit down.

The intermission rule is good also, along with the argueing with the officials.
causing the yellow cause you dont like how things are happening, to bad, go to the pits and have a seat.
JMO
 
B/F I start, I am not bashing any classes at all. First off, at places like Tri-City, on the big shows, need to run the Late models first. That is what people come to see, at least 90% of them anyway. I realize they are trying to make that extra dollar in the food lines but sooner or later it is going to hurt them and people are going to stop going. It's Sunday night for crying out loud, most people have to work the next day! The Mods are the worst class at taking up time anywhere especially Tri-City. Don't get me wrong we have some of the best Mod drivers around here, but put a time limit on them. West Plains does that and it works great. EX: 10 laps or 10 min. It works wonders. Just my 2 cents. BTW Jimmy Cummins, what happend to you in the Main Sunday night, you were lookin good then the next thing I noticed you were off the track. What happend?
 
Running the LM's first is kind of like putting the headlining band on before the warm up acts. It doesn't make a lot of sense financially to do that, you lose a lot of beer and hotdog sales as the crowd heads out the door after seeing what they came for. And it's not really fair to the up and comers, trying to make a name for themselves and needing to show what they can do to get more sponsorship etc.

I understand why people might like it, but there are a lot of reasons not to do it that way.
 
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