Just some discussion

S

shockleyjames

New Member
First I would like to say congrats to all who ran sat. night(7-24) there was some fantastic racing. Congrats to track officals you all did a great job.

I would like to start a respectable debate about rubbing and hitting. I do know that rubing is going to happen in racing and I have done my share of rubing also but the flip side of that is hitting to get around someone. If it takes hitting some one to get around them are you a racer? I'm not saying anything mean towards anyone just asking what other people feel about that? I have raced for many years, I raced stock cars till i was 19, now I am racing go karts, and have been around racing for a long time and I feel the same way now as i did then, people may have better equipment then you or a better set up for the night, but if you need to hit them to get them out of the way that is not a racer. Pass them clean and if you four wheel drift in to them, that is racing. I personally feel the chrome horn is the worst way to win a race. As I said I would like to have a respectable debate about this. I do race for the fun of racing and I am having a great time no matter what. I am however allowed to voice my opinion and I like having debates. Please no name calling or finger pointing this is just a debate about hitting and rubbing.

Again a fantastic night at JYI and I will see you all Sat. night.
 
i dont watch alot of racing on tv but i saw a race this weekend (nascar) where a guy came into a corner, bumped the car in front of him and he did a 360 and hit the wall. was his intent to put him to the wall or was it simply a case of coming into the corner way too fast? ho will judge each occurance? its like baseball, an ump cant be right on every call whether a runner is safe or out. in a race, if you ask the guy who got hit, he will say it was on purpose but the guy that hit him will say it was an accident. thats life. sorry to say. there is no answer that will be acceptable to both parties. you could talk all day on this. good luck
 
Racing is always going to have conflicts about hitting/bumping someone to make a pass. It happens in all forms of racing where one person bumps another out of the way for a position. If the person behind you is faster, and bumps you to get you loose without taking you out, that is part of racing and controling your actions in the car. If the person behind you is faster and jumps on the back of your kart, or simply takes you out, there is no control in that. So I guess like Lukerman said, it's always going to happen, how it happens is very controversial. A small bump to gain a position is harmless, causing someone to spin out or creating a pile up is not smart. And no, if they have to hit someone hard to get by them, they are not as fast as they think they are.
 
No comment, other than is the blag flag going to come out before the ambulance?
We dont need to get anyone hurt in such a great sport. Thank you
 
Cool, Fantastic thoughts everyone. See isn't this cool, a discussion with no name calling.

I feel on that nascar race that it wasn't intentional because everyone saw that it was a check up by the driver that got hit becuase of slower traffic in front of him, am I thinking about the right one? I belive 25 was slow and someone had to check up and got hit, if wrong one, sorry. My point on that is a driver is going to know when they are being hit to be moved out of the way, it's like the laws of phyisics, sorry about my spelling, that when your kart gets hit on the left corner it is going to push out right and we all know that we go fast turn left, our karts are not set up to go right so when you start heading right you know you are being pushed out of the way. If it is because a person comes into the corner to hot is that considered racing?

And yes I do agree it does happen in all forms of racing, and I don't agree with it in any form. I don't just disagree with it in my sport it shouldn't happen in any form of racing. If a drivers set up is fast and they know how to race then there should not be any hitting to get around, even a little bump to get around because a little bump could cause someone to lose control. If the set up is so good and fast and the racer is that good then they shouldn't have to hit, right? I have favorite drivers from kart racing to late models to sprint cars to nascar and even though they are my favorites if they hit someone to get around them I don't agree with it.

Let me come at another angle and see what you all think, If a driver feels that getting around them because they are holding them up so they just tap them and go around because their equipment is faster or that they are better racers then how about this, move up to the next level and race with the competitors that have the same equipment and skill as them. Would it be fair to say that? I'm not saying anything mean just asking the question.

Thanks to all for the great discussion, good luck to you all, be safe and have a great time.

Hey racer rik you got your $100 still? ha-ha
 
I have to agree with some of your thoughts, in the adult classes, moving up is not always the option. Or going to stocks cars , or mini sprints is not always affordable. In the rookie or jr classes, thereis no option that I know of, therefore I have to reiterate that it is the task of the officials to make these calls. Is it rubbing to get by someone, or hitting back because you were just passed by someone who either caught you offguard, or was faster than you on that particular lap?
Once again, the thing that concerns me, is that with the nice facilities we have both in JYI and Bedrock, not to get anyone hurt, because a black flag would not be thrown. The competition is tight in many classes, and if there are incidents that are re-ocurring, with the same drivers, then it is time for them to sit out a race or two. We are not Nascar, IHRA, Busch, or Craftsman, we are the local racers, who have to go to work on Monday, or back to school, or to a ballgame the next day. We need to police ourselves better to avoid injuries.
And yes, I still have the $100 with me, had it Sat nite, as I was preparing to protest someone at the Burris race, had I felt the need. And if YOU ever win a feature James, you will probably be the on I go after :D
Good luck to all racers, and we will see you next time :cool:
 
my oppinion

I have raced gokarts for 8 yrs, and my family has been in racing for about 10 yrs. I watch all types of racing, and bumping takes place in all of it. From stockcars to motocross to offroad racing and even boats at times. But it seems like the same people are usally causing the problems. If the flagman would use the black flag more maybe it would stop, and if it caused fights and arguments then its the track officials job to take care of the problem. Suspension for 2 weeks or loss of points. But I think they are afraid of losing drivers. I've been to several tracks this year and most of the time my kids equipment has been torn up for stupid driving tactics. RUBBING IS RACING......SPINNING OR WRECKING SOMEONE IS DUMB Parts are expensive when your poor. Thanks for listening
 
Officials Job

These are very good points being made in regards to proper and improper ways to pass.There's always going to be accidental contact,our tracks are small and tight.When there's 12-16 karts out @ the same time,it gets hairy!
I can't comment about Bedrock,cause I haven't raced there yet this year.But I will say @ JYI the Officials have gotten there act together.Brian & Larry are working really good together,and won't put up with nonsense durring a race.That Black Flag is always in Brians hand,he'll drop it if need be.

Sumo Awayyyyyyyyyyy :eek:
 
rubbing

i have seen some good points and i have seen some not so good points.i been racing since i was eight years old,starting in karts,then to 600 mini sprints,on to modifieds and so on.i have seen every trick in the book and have also seen stuff happen that should not have.i have always been a believer in good clean racing,and was tought that during my hole racing carreer from my father and grandfather as a kid.i have lost many of races due to the local joe shmoe who beats and bangs their way to the front,and i have also won many of races with that same joe shmoe...i have also been in predictions where the guy in front of me was just taking up the only line on the track,and i followed him for most of the race and i finally had to move him outta the way,not plum hammer him and knock him silly,just tapped him comin out,got him a little lose and went by him,that is racin..knockin someone plum silly is not racing,and you are not a driver if you have to do that.90 percent of the time if you are fast and you are a REAL RACE CAR DRIVER,you can find away around somebody clean and respectful,but there are times that you have to move the car ahead of you,that can also be done in a clean respectful way.i love to race clean cause it only makes you look better in the end.there will always be those guys at every track that drive like they are in bumpoer cars,just use your head and think about the situation before you make a decision..good day!!
 
Just remember when frustrations are taken out ON THE TRACK, people and equipment get torn up or hurt. Try to talk things out before taking revenge.Makes for a fun and exciting day at the track for everyone.
 
This is my son's first year in racing, we have been to several tracks as he is running the Burris Series; I think if the officials would use the black flag more often it would lesson the issue. I hate to say it but JYI has been really rough in comparison to other tracks where he runs; It has gotten better since the beginning of the season, Sedalia was pretty rough during the winter season also. With the kids I think alot of it has to do with the parents allowing their kids to drive rough & in some places we've been I've actually heard a parent say take that one out, like it is at whatever cost. We don't encourage that behavior and don't allow it. I also noticed at JYI in the rookie class you have alot of Karts running together instead of breaking them out. At alot of other tracks when you get 10 or more karts they break them into 2 groups but then evrybody runs the feature. At JYI it's been obvious that some of the kids running Rookie just can't keep up with the few that are really screamin' around the track. It would be safer to break those kids into 2 groups and put the faster ones together and the slower ones in a group by themselves. Not all the kids in the faster group are ready to move up to Juniors so you can't move them up. As for the adults not everyone has the same experience level some are new racers some are seasoned. There have been a lot of Karts running and although I've never driven one it looks hard to me to be able to get past anybody when so many karts are on the track at the same time. I've seen times when a flag should be thrown and it wasn't. I've seen a driver hit someone so hard it knocked that kart into someone else. I always thought rubbing was part of racing but what I see I wouldn't always classify as rubbing. Throw the black flag before somebody gets seriously hurt! on another subject...............
can anyone explain when the caution is to be used? The last few times I've been there I noticed that when somebody spins out in the race the caution isn't always thrown, I've seen in the same race somebody spin out and a caution is thrown and then somebody else spins out and it isn't thrown. I've seen drivers see the other driver spin out and slow down expecting the caution and then it doesn't happen, and they lose their position, what is this selective caution thing?

I think everybody has made some good points, JYI has gotten better but it was still a little rough Saturday night, probably due to kart counts int he races.

Frank & crew at Bedrock have worked really hard to keep things under control, they've done a great job of it so if you haven't been out there come out and give it a try.

So..........use the BLACK FLAG that's what it's there for!
 
I do agree that parts are expensive when you don't have sponsers or businesses to write stuff on that is why I like clean racing. If all racers looked at it like that if they where fast in the first place then if their equipment isn't getting tore up by hitting other racers and taking the chance of spinning them in front of them and hurting their equipment also. There are alot of excellent points and one I strongly agree with is if you are racing clean it only makes you look better, no matter where you finish. I know winning is important in any sport, if it wasn't then what would sports be, but what happened to sportsmanship?

I read the comment of slight tap to get around, what does everyone else think? I don't know if I agree with that because no mater how slight the tap isn't it still a hit? That person in front of you might have missed thier set up by eithr putting in the wrong gear or wrong tire presures but they do know the prefered line and are racing in it to stay out front, so because they missed thier set up the should be put out of the way? If your car/kart is set up right and fast can't you put the nose of your car/kart beside them in the straight away and let them know you are there?

Haven't seen alot of comments on the question of moving up to the next level. It was said that it was expensive to do that and I don't disagree but it is also expnsive for others to keep getting their equipment tore up. Me personally I feel that when I get to a point in any sport that my sportsmanship starts fading it is time to move up and get against tougher competition and make myself better. Few sports I have been ableto do that in but I have in some and to find out what I really was as to what I needed to be was a big reality check, but you just push foward and get it done.

Racer Rik I'm kind of like a savings account for you cause you said you will have it till I win a race, well you will have a $100 for Christmas. Ha-Ha There may be a night I pull out a win but if not I will still be there having a great time, learning and racing with some great competition.
 
There are a lot of great points in this post, and clean racing is great to watch and great for the car owners/drivers. All racing should be as clean as possible. But, in response to a slight tap or bump to get buy someone, I will still have to say that it will always happen even with greatest drivers who can't move up any farther because they are at the top. If you attend a Nascar race, or a Busch race, or an ARCA race and watch closely, there is more bumping going on than at your local stock car track. Many of them have just perfected the art of the bump and run. If someone is being held up for a number of laps, even if the person in front of them might have missed the setup, they are not thinking about setups, only the position. There are many good drivers who have replied to this post, and I will almost bet all of them have bumped someone to get buy once or twice, whether it is for first place, or passing lap traffic that is in the way. Now, I am not, definitely not, promoting bumping everyone on the track, but there is a certain way to bump someone, and many of the greatest drivers know the difference between a bump, and plowing another car. Plowing someone should be grounds for a black flag, because that will get someone hurt. But a small bump to make a pass is going to happen in the greatest forms of racing, so hopefully your setup is better than theirs and they will never catch you.
 
If you can bump them then most of the time you can pass them, without the bump. Unless they are blocking, then I might understand a bump. Learn to run different lines on the track and pass at different points on the track, and then you become a better and safer driver. One day the "bumper" will be leading a race and will get bumped and lose his or her temper. Just remember you condoned it. Just because everyone else does it, does not mean you have to do it. STOP now and then maybe everyone else will follow. My kids are considered clean drivers, and are well respected. They also have there share of wins WITHOUT wrecking someone. If they drive rough or stupid I yank their BUTTS off the track. Drive safe
 
black flag

There have been many great points made James. Everybody her including you I am sure have thought they could get along side to make a clean pass. With a slight misjudgment a clean pass turns into a bump or hit. Was it intentional or not or bad racing is up to the officials and the flagman to decide. You put 15 or 16 carts on a banked 1/8 mile and carts are going to get hit. I will race as clean as I can but mistakes are going to happen if it becomes a problem it is the tracks responsibility to take care of it. I understand the rain was the cause to put heavies into one class but at that point isn't getting the race in being put ahead of driver safety. JYI is much better than it was but I heard a lot of we will black flag in the juniors if anything happens but the same two were at it and no black flag. Economics come into play here I have been to races as a spectator and a racer and have heard a lot of we will black flag but have very rarely seen it thrown. The tracks are in a tough situation also. Your point about if a cart misses set up a little if your cant make pass without touching them don't do it. That will never happen on a 1/8 mile banked track with one truly fast line. If that is how the racing is handled then everyone will finish the race where they started the race. We are running 5 horse motors tweaked. There is only so much that can be done. The true difference between a first place cart and last is not that great. I am glad this has stayed civilized and hoping the racing does also. I have been rubbed and hit and have done the same everybody has I have never intentionally gone out there to take someone out and never will. But things happen and always will. I am just glad for fun places to race and fun people to race against. We will all get mad but aren't we here to have a good time if some one is taking it way to serious to be trying to take people out he is the real looser (even if he wins the race). Good Luck to all. Andy
 
Hey that's awesome you stay with your position, that's what all good debates are about. It's nice to talk to others and get their points and not get personal with it.
One thing I noticed though is most drivers are running a small bumper leaving their left rear open, now is this a coincidence or was it done for a reason? I have heard some say it keeps them from getting that bump and run situation. Another thing I say was on a single file restart the front runers will weave to and fro and I never could understand it untill I heard it keeps em of my bumper. Just a question should we forgo the safety of protecting that left rear to keep other karts off of us or should we open it up and keep from getting hit?
Also I do agree that the person in front is thinking about position What would racing be if we didn't, but what I mean is they know their setup is bad so race the best line to try and stay out front. I believe some one else said try and pass on a different line, wouldn't that also show you really know how to race by being able to pass anywhere on the track without the bump?
I do agrre with the black flag, but help me understand something, if the black flag is thrown on someone do we caution the race and put them to the rear or just finish the race and score them last so that everyone else moves up. Here is a thought what does everyone think about penalties for this? Fines or suspension? Suspension of a heat race would be a great penalty I think. I know all tracks are afrraid of losing racers but by not taking care of it most realize that it can be gotten away with and it will continue.
Some fantastic points goody78rsg and I'm glad to hear you don't let your drivers get out of hand. I know when my son was racing he knew if he did something on that track to anyone else it was on like donkey kong. I don't like it and I wasn't going to put up with it. I think teaching them sportsmanship early really helps.
I agree that there are alot of karts on a small track and its fun. The more the competition the harder I have to try to be a good driver, that's the way I like it. Another question for thought, if we run together for the feature shouldn't we run together in heat races? I know stock cars run different heats and then the top 5 or 6 draw pills again for line up. What does everyone think of that?
As Andy said I am glad to have a fantastic place to run and great people to run against, It's awesome. Till next time.
Hey who drives the 14 in heavy class at JYI? He got hit pretty hard Sat. night and I was wondering if he was o.k.?
 
black flag

I do not know about JYI but I know at bedrock the first black flag is rolled up and pointed at you as a warning to say we are watching if you do something after that you get it waved at you and yow are off the track. I do not know if it would happen in a heat race do you get credit for last and still get to run the feature I will have to ask. I know from the few black flags I have seen the person is so ticked off that they usually leave. About split heat races I am for it anything over 10 to 12 karts on the track at one time is a recipe for disaster in my opinion and would only want to be running with 16 karts once in a night instead of 3 times. I think it was stupid to put us all out there for hot laps. I personally was behind a slower kart and went to make a clean pass and the guy behind me comes up and makes it 3 wide and I ended up getting into the guy above me because I got hit. I think more than anything if there is a problem we need to let the track handle it. It is not worth a fight. We will see you Sat. night bedrock rained out again. I think if the Heavies have that many karts again I just might run over weight in the mediums. Andy Oh yea THANK GOD FOR SPELL CHECK
 
James, pill draw for the feature is OUT. The drivers work hard to ge thier positions, and to submit them to a second pill draw to see where they line up at in the feature does not seem right
Splitting up groups for hot laps: good idea, we are out there to try and learn what the setup is, not to try and get out of the way of a faster kart.
Black flag: This is difficult to call, as to points in a heat race, but I recently witnessed 2 racers being shown flags by the flagman, as he knocked the 2 together flags together, signaling do not hit. How many times does this need to be done before someone is actually black flagged? In many instances, by the time this signaling is done, the damage has already ocurred. This in a class of 6 karters.
Throw a yellow and put them to the back? FAT CHANCE. The black flag is a DIQUALIFICATION FLAG, not a put them to the back flag. How many more people could be affected by that person coming back up and perhaps knocking someone out of the race, even if by accident.
WE MUST REMEMBER THAT SAFTEY IS THE BEST POLICY, AND THAT EVEN THOUGH IT IS HARD FOR AN OFFICIAL TO MAKE THAT CALL, LETS NOT GET SOMEONE HURT BY DOING NOTHING.
Hope to see you all on Sat.
 
hey good topic :) i have also raced latemodels before my kids got into karting and i have to say karting is a rough sport but people dont have to run over the guy next to them to make a good pass.i think that this is a really great topic that has been started and it will be number one on this kart page for a while

yes i do get very upset with rough driving but it is a good thing to talk about and let everyone put there thoughts in it and see it we can make things better for all of us

pork(ken)
 
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