Official Highland Ruling

Status
Not open for further replies.
AK, if Dean didn't agree with how the test was done why would you sign the form? It seems to me that Dean was happy with how everything was done. That night would of been the right time to complain about the test was conducted.
 
Sounds like as long as it is someone caught like Bloomquist it is fine but when Dean Hoffman or Bailey gets caught it couldnt possibly be true!Look at the results the last couple of weeks the only guy winning consistantly is Korte is his tires tested since the last 5 or 6 feature wins,the top three in the 100 lapper should have been there was a U.M.P official there!There are alot of racers that have cheated and can look you dead in the eyes and swear otherwise so if Dean or Paul says they didnt half their fans will believe them but noone else will.When Kloos got busted it should have sent a message that nothing other than water should be used on the tires so if you get caught there is no excuse!The chain of custody argument sounds like the excuses the O.J legal team used.
 
kreke13 said:
The efforts by UMP to police tires is applauded. BUT in order for this process to work and be fair it needs to be performed by UMP. I thought yall would be interested in some information about the Bailey-Hoffman testing. When you read this I want you to assume that this test was done on your tire or that of your favorite racer.

Highland officials have a non-affiliated party (not an official of the track) buy the jars to hold the samples. This individual delivered the jars to the track. This immediately violates custody procedures since the sample jars were out of Highlands possession.

Highland uses the same tool, without sterilizing or changing the blade, when taking both samples- (contamination problem)

Highland used duct tape to seal the containers. Really duct tape? They should have used a perforated tape that would tear if reopened.

The Chain of Custody sheet contained only two signatures, one by Dean Hoffman and the other by the receiving lab, even though the sample was handled by at least two Highland officials and a UPS driver. By looking at the chain of Custody sheet it appears that Dean Hoffman took the sample directly to the lab. Obviously this was not the case. There is no documentation that actually follows the chain of custody.

According to the dates in the Chain of Custody document, it took
(16) days for the sample to make it from the Highland official to the lab. (sample taken on July 16th and received by the lab on August 1st.)Where was the sample for these sixteen days and who handled it? Clearly the Chain of Custody document shows no other names when in fact we know at least three others had possession of the sample. How many others had possession that we do not know of?

The lab used LM30 and LM40 compound as a benchmark against Hoffman tires. Really? Hoffman runs modified tires. The lab couldn’t even get the benchmarks correct.

Lastly, this lab was recently singled out in a Southern All-Star tire test. A second lab found no illicit chemicals after Blue Ridge found the tire to be illegal. The SAS case against the racer was dropped (See 4m)
http://www.4m.net/showthread.php?228058-Byars-tires-cleared-by-lab-SAS-win-reinstated

Bottom line- local tracks do not have the expertise to perform this process and should not. Let’s not even discuss the issues of favoritism and how they would affect this process.
Click to expand...


Al, It seems you have the expertise to conduct tire testing,Im sure the St Louis aera tracks would be gratful for your help,Why not give them a hand? A solution is working together-racn devil*******************
 
After reading a post on 4-m racing web site, I am begining to believe there is more to this tire testing than meets the eye! It is being label as 'Tiregate'!! Seems one lab results call the tires illeagal and a different one says they are not...hmmmmm! Not good considering good racers may have their names and their reputations ran through the dirt for nothing.
 
tuner said:
AK, if Dean didn't agree with how the test was done why would you sign the form? It seems to me that Dean was happy with how everything was done. That night would of been the right time to complain about the test was conducted.
Click to expand...

If he wouldn't have signed the form he would have gave up his right to prove that the tires were legal. He really didn't have a choice and probably didn't know how the test was handled at the time.

This isn't directed at you but at some of the other people that have posted. Regardless if he signed the form or didn't sign the form because of the way the test was handled the same jealous people would be on here calling him a cheater without having any idea what they are talking about.

Bobby Simpson
 
"tiregate" think that name fits this crap perfectly!!!
Also, Hoffman signed the papers, yeah, 1. what choice did he have? and 2. He didn't think there would be a problem!!! If results were announced, which I believe AK when he says they were(not doubting that), why didn't everyone hear of it??
And on another note, if a tire sample was left in a "container" for 16 days, wouldn't it take on whatever chemicals were in the makeup of the container??
If ya leave something in a plastic bag or bowl for too many days it takes on the smell and taste of it. So what kind of container was it??? If I leave food in the fridge for 7 days in any container(except glass), it takes on the taste and smell of what it's in!
This crap is just ignorant!!
Glad we haven't had the money to put on car on the track lately!!!!
Hope to soon, hope this craps over with!!!
 
OK,,turn left has a good point,,lets say joe blow in car xyz has his tires treated,,lets say joe blow runs a feature,a long feature where the track takes rubber,,will not some of jow blows funny rubber adhear to the racing surface and is it not possable to transfer some of the said funny rubber to another racers tires????? if so then any results should be voided and the next time testing is done samples of the racing surface should be taken.....oh ya,,if there is a racer out there named joe blow no offence or accusations of cheating ment,,only used that name as a reference...
 
I'm gonna take tire samples off my daily driver and see if they are legal.....HA! This is becoming a Marx Brothers Movie. Hoosier pays probably 30% of UMP's point fund(??),so they have no reason to change the manufacturing process to make these tires last.The more tires you buy,the more points money you get at the Banquet! Ever since the World Racing Group took over,Ump has went in the crapper!!!!! Follow the Benjamins!!!! This is why the testing is done,even though they have no coherent plan to punish offenders! Just like NASCAR,they are the only game in town(Their House,Their Rules).I guess if your dog pizzed on your tires, you are gonna be illegal? Give UMP enough rope and they will hang themselves,unfortunately we will all pay the price( NO MORE DIRT RACING).I"m not an expert,but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express,last night........LMFAO!
 
tuner said:
AK, if Dean didn't agree with how the test was done why would you sign the form? It seems to me that Dean was happy with how everything was done. That night would of been the right time to complain about the test was conducted.
Click to expand...

The form is signed only to document that the tire sample was indeed taken at the time and date shown on the form. It is the beginning of the chain of custody documentation. The only time you can object to the procedures is after a decision has been made. You can file for an appeal which Dean has done.
 
Invader said:
blue ridge lab sounds like a fishy operation.
Click to expand...
Man oh man this sure looks and sounds all too familiar. Wasnt it about a month ago bleed blue was trying to give his insight into this lab ? Telling people on how the testing was being done and all the bad (PR) the lab was getting for doing tests on tires that they deemed illegal only to be done by another lab to come back legal. Sad part is most not all on this board wouldnt even listen to bleed blue or take into condsideration a lab could be doing bad testing, most had already convicted him without a trial by judge so to speak. In my eyes it seems like some need to pay closer attention to details given whether the statements are factual or not do some investigation or research before jumping to conclusions.
 
71_racing_crew said:
Man oh man this sure looks and sounds all too familiar. Wasnt it about a month ago bleed blue was trying to give his insight into this lab ? Telling people on how the testing was being done and all the bad (PR) the lab was getting for doing tests on tires that they deemed illegal only to be done by another lab to come back legal. Sad part is most not all on this board wouldnt even listen to bleed blue or take into condsideration a lab could be doing bad testing, most had already convicted him without a trial by judge so to speak. In my eyes it seems like some need to pay closer attention to details given whether the statements are factual or not do some investigation or research before jumping to conclusions.
Click to expand...

agreed....and most of all educate themselves on the subject matter before they go making comments and they have NO CLUE what they are talking about
 
71_racing_crew said:
Man oh man this sure looks and sounds all too familiar. Wasnt it about a month ago bleed blue was trying to give his insight into this lab ? Telling people on how the testing was being done and all the bad (PR) the lab was getting for doing tests on tires that they deemed illegal only to be done by another lab to come back legal. Sad part is most not all on this board wouldnt even listen to bleed blue or take into condsideration a lab could be doing bad testing, most had already convicted him without a trial by judge so to speak. In my eyes it seems like some need to pay closer attention to details given whether the statements are factual or not do some investigation or research before jumping to conclusions.
Click to expand...
We for the most part didnt judge him. We questioned his practices and his product. Anyone can tell you anything......but is it what it is??Undetectable? I think not. Totally enviromentally good? That is something a chemist needs to determine.....but yet he wouldnt allow one to test his stuff. Too afraid they may get his recipe i guess. Then the wacky attitude he had on and off the track did not help. I dont care personally what he does......who preps....ect ect so on. Its ridiculous that people do it........because in the rules its against it. Black and white.....read it. Was Nick right about the testing? Maybe.....or maybe not? Who on here is a REAL chemist? I deal with alot of chemicals.....formulas....msds charts ect and i can tell you ive never seen anything undetectable and good for the enviroment that changes the product of rubber and its material status. Unless its a majical potion. If it is...needs to contact goodyears........firestone......michelin and make big dollars. Doubt this will happen.Ive got 20 plus years in chemical handling and identification............so i do know a little about what i am speaking about.
 
Meaning we as in..the forum as a whole. Yes....i did judge him. So be it and i didnt hide behind a screen name and i also was threatened to be sued. My dealing with chemicals..........their disposal and useage kind of put me on a different level as i see the ones who use and abuse them. Stand my ground and sometimes that is not a bad thing..right or wrong. But everyone has their opinons and thats what makes the world roll.
 
FIREBALL said:
OK,,turn left has a good point,,lets say joe blow in car xyz has his tires treated,,lets say joe blow runs a feature,a long feature where the track takes rubber,,will not some of jow blows funny rubber adhear to the racing surface and is it not possable to transfer some of the said funny rubber to another racers tires????? if so then any results should be voided and the next time testing is done samples of the racing surface should be taken.....oh ya,,if there is a racer out there named joe blow no offence or accusations of cheating ment,,only used that name as a reference...
Click to expand...


I also have a question if someone who knows might could answer. These chemicals are put on the tires in liquid form, so my question is.... If it can get in the dirt on the track, could it possibly contaminate other tires when the track is tilled up and watered and is ran in by cars? Seems to me that would be likely?????????

I'm sorry but I think there is just to much room for error in this tire testing for it to be done 100% fool proof. This stuff isn't being done in a court of law under oath. I'm just not that trusting for my racing future to be in the hands of any track official or sanction official. This isn't a motor tear down that a racer can watch or something of that nature. Who knows who may have an axe to grind or whom may be made the scapegoat. I personally think anyone with money enough to contest it in court would have no problem beating it. JMO
 
Tire testing isn't going to go away! Sanctioning bodies are getting their ducks in a row on exact procedures to follow and running it past their own lawyers to help ensure everything will be held up by a court. Everything will have a procedure/policy to follow including the tools used to remove pieces of the tire, how the samples are stored, chain of custody with signatures and a lot more than I know about.

None of the these promoters or sanctioning bodies are trying to grind an axe with anyone on this tire testing. They are trying to enforce rules and slow down or end this problem.
 
Yes cheaters should be dealt with but we don't need a witch hunt either. with all of this talk of tires and getting traction could we say that some cars have to much motor for the size of the track. we've had crate cars win at belleville and crates run good at highland with the supers.
but what gets me is how people will cheat for a couple hundred dollars. My name is worth a lot more than that!
 
I'm not sure anyone would of anticipated things like someone bringing up that the rubber seal inside the the jar used to store the tire samples might just contaminate the tire sample.. There are a lot of little nit picky things being brought up just to get away with cheating....

You are an official, I know you've seen an unintended gray area exploited in your own rule book that forced changes to be made. What is Allied's written policy on how they will test and enforce it?

And it isn't just UMP, it is all the major sanctioning bodies.... Even POWRi, who never had a tire doping rule, implemented one this past weekend when some racers were doing it openly in the pit area.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.




Back
Top