Rule Changes

P

pwracing

Member
I was asked a few weeks ago to come up with some ideas to make the mini-stock class a little more equal for everybody. I sent a PM to this person, with no response. I guess I will just put them here and see what everybody thinks: The first thing to do is have a .010 in the hole deck rule. Trueing the deck can be argued many different ways. It is too vague and was taken advantage of by several top competitors. There is no way to enforce it. .010 in the hole puts everybody with every make of engine in the same boat. That is why Pevely had this rule until they bought a tool to check compression. Now they have a compression rule! Many people complained about a rod rule, so basically I would keep it stock only. Thus the name mini-STOCK! This goes against what I have said before but if they take into consideration what I say here it will not matter as much. Without having a special rod rule for Chevys I would also do away with the adjustable timing gear for Fords, that would even the score a little. Last year they took the rods away from the Chevys then gave the Fords exactly what they needed for cutting the crap out of the deck and the heads. Heads are harder to keep up with. But you need to have a casting rule. Only allow certain castings, and be rather broad about it. This should be done with everybodys input so as to not cause alot of dissent about having to go out and buy something other than what you have. The reason for a casting rule is pretty basic, you can then have a cc rule. Limiting the castings allowed will make this possible. You must also allow for having to true those castings up. A cheap tool is all that is required to check either of these 2 points. This will reduce compression and make each engine as close to the same as possible. I would leave most of the other rules alone except for ignition. It does not say wether you can or cannot run aftermarket ignition, that needs to be addressed also. This is for DRR only, RAMS is a totally different animal. Pesonally, at this point it doesn't matter to me what they do. But if you are going to have a fun entry level class, make it exactly that and take out all the loopholes. Now pick my suggestions apart, but at least think about it and maybe it will be more satisfying to know you won because you have a good chassis and you were the better driver that night! And maybe because you got a good pill draw!
 
some interesting points prw.... the cam gear thing won't matter to much to the ford thus like the chevys we can advance or retard the cam timming on a stock gear (chevy still has 3 holes on timing gear right? been long time since I worked on them) now the heads man that will take a lot of reasearch for both sides (2.3 produced since 1972) and then the 2.5 (iron duke) wasn't in 69 when they came out and then you got all them fwd heads? somebody going to have a headache:eek: :eek: but is interesting this would take them back to stock form... would it be a step forward or back?
 
Just trying to even the score and don't want to leave out Datsun, Toyota and Dodge either, just not up on them. With all the different heads that is why a casting rule. You would be a good candidate to tell us what heads would be best to serve the Ford contingency! And there is no three bolts on a 2.5 cam gear, press fit with a keyway!
 
yeah the key way thing is the key;) if you know what I mean:D there a long threads on other boards on which head is the best from d-port round-port to the 8 plug 2300 head:)then you got the 2000 cc pinto motor 1600cc pinto motor 2000cc ranger motor
and a 2500cc this will make a man go crazy ow my head hurts already!!:eek: ...don't forget mazda :p nissan:cool: hey how about a daihusti??? that little truck they drive around at southeast missouri hospital...

this can be a good thread as long as nobody get's to crazy on here;)
 
You wouldn't want to seperate too far from RAMS rules that way when they race at SFCR they could still race.
 
And when would that be? It never happened in 2005. If there was a commitment, then that should be a consideration, otherwise whats the point?
 
There were none at SFCR this year due to the track running five full-time classes. Next year the track has just four and they are already working on setting up special events coming in for 2006.. That's the point..
 
Ok, I would like to give my imput on this issue, back when we first started this class as a entry level class for the racers that could not afford street stocks or modifieds or any of the upper classes of cars ,we had a meeting at my garage and invited anybody that wanted to come, we had a good turn out and I thought we decided on a good way to progress this class and keep it cheap, ( I thought). If in my opinion you want to do that ,then every thing needs to be stock, no cams, no headers, no adjustable cam gears, no light flywheels, no aftermarket rods, ect. go back to a 15inch vacuum rule and have a hot cranking compression rule( 175, 180,???) also we talked about everybody running IMCA tires to even the playing field on tires. 30 modifieds a week run at Farmington and there should be plenty of tires to go around. Something else we talked about was a weight to cc rule that would allow 1300, 1400, 1500 ,1600 1800, 2000cc cars to be able to compete equally with 2300, 2500 and so on engines, You guys now have to weigh 2500 lbs. thats more than my brothers super street weighs with a 360 motor, on the same tires he runs, no wounder you can't unhook these cars, 90% of the minis I watch are to tight. loosen them up and let the driver back in to this picture, I went to several tracks out west that year and talked to almost every driver at each track I went to ,and all of them were very happy with the rules i'm speaking of here. I saw a 1600 cc toyota racing for the win 2 nites in a row with a 2300 mustang II. The main thing is to keep it easy to police ( vacuum, compression, tires, weight, safety ). This is just my opinion as I feel close to this class and really care about it's future in our area. #69 Nissan SS Steve Harris.
 
Pw

I read this post to Kenny... And He wants to Apoligize, but he thought he PMed you back.... He had been working out of town for the last two weeks, so maybe he did forget.. I also thought he talked to you at the race track a couple of weeks ago... Sorry, must of ran out of time...:confused:
 
No problem, I just wanted to get the ball rolling so we can get plenty of input and try to improve on a good thing! And Milsey, if you read what I said completely, I said if there is a commentment you would want to stay close to the RAMS, if there is no commitment then I would not bother and I do not see a solid one from what you have said so far!
 
Steve H said:
If in my opinion you want to do that ,then every thing needs to be stock, no cams, no headers, no adjustable cam gears, no light flywheels, no aftermarket rods, ect. go back to a 15inch vacuum rule and have a hot cranking compression rule( 175, 180,???) also we talked about everybody running IMCA tires to even the playing field on tires. 30 modifieds a week run at Farmington and there should be plenty of tires to go around. Something else we talked about was a weight to cc rule that would allow 1300, 1400, 1500 ,1600 1800, 2000cc cars to be able to compete equally with 2300, 2500 and so on engines, I went to ,and all of them were very happy with the rules i'm speaking of here. I saw a 1600 cc toyota racing for the win 2 nites in a row with a 2300 mustang II. The main thing is to keep it easy to police ( vacuum, compression, tires, weight, safety ). This is just my opinion as I feel close to this class and really care about it's future in our area. #69 Nissan SS Steve Harris.
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Steve on the tires would that elminate the 8 inch wide tire rule? becuase I got some old sportsmen tires and they are 7 inch (by the number on side) yes if this clas would have stayed like you stated above I think it would be bigger than it is now... just go out get you a 4 banger strip it cage it and go racing no more $1500 up motors....just seems no matter what class that start enty level always seem to go to the next level....look at the hornets at I 55 stroker motors gettng chips for the computer:( now this wasn't aimed at anybody that races this class ...
 
I don't have a stake in this class at all but you guys really should listen and consider what Steve has to say. He helped create a good class in the beginning. It appears to have gotten a long way from that now. If you want it to survive and grow you're going to have to get it back to cheap and fun. Steve had it going in that direction, he could help you point it back there if you'll let him.
 
"Steve Harris (Kenny as well) have been around long enough....

to know what is and isn't fun about racing. Fun is when you can go race on the cheap/ not fun is when you have $1,800-$2,500 engine & $1,000-$1,500 in a chassis. When the Harris boys and the DRR gang started this class they didn't dream of $2800-$4000 Mini-Stocks (Stocks Ha, Ha!). Yes I'm one of the guys that has spent too much just to have a chance to run up front. I now have a S-10 Mini-Stock that has won 5 Features in 2004 & 5 Features in 2005 and people think I'm crazy to be asking $2,700 without or $3,000 with a trailer. But you know what? You can't build one for less and run up front. That's sad!
Ask yourselves this, How many different Feature winners where this year @ DRR? What fun is it when you have little or no hope winning because you can't spend $4,000-$5,000 for a new Mini-Stock? I had to run in the top 3 just to pay for my night and that's nothing toward the cost of the car/truck.
I myself could go build a stock engine and put it in my 52 truck and run with other stock engines and not worry as much about blowing the bottom end out!

Do compression, vacum & lift checks. stock factory headers or exhaust manifolds only. Stock HEI & stock ignition. Still allow Holley carbs. Sign me up! I would get to race against some guys/gals that haven't been able to spend the money to run up front.
Marty Boyer 52
 
I Agree 100 Percent!!!

Steve Harris hit it right on the head. The class has gotten way out of hand on the amount of money nessasary to be competive and the knowledge it takes to set up theese things. It was not as fun this year as it was last year. Last year things were alot more even, with alot of people having a chance to win. Now don't misunderstand me, I am not picking on the winners this year, they did what the rules allowed. Go back to what the class was intended for and you will have a lot more interest, I for one am thinking about going to a pure street.... why not, close to the same price that it takes to have a competive ministock, get to go faster, win more money, and parts and knowledge is more available for the 350 chevy engine. Again, don't take me wrong.. I love racing at drr, Bobby and staff did an excelent job. Bobby just allowed certin rule changes that several people said the class needed, he was trying to listen to the request and do what he thought the majority wanted. It's just didn't work out. Go to the rules Steve outlined and I will be back, otherwise I am going purestreet. BRIAN MCGEE
 
Hey guys I race with the RAMS and I wish we could go with the rules you have talked about on here. The only problem is the FORD guys will not go for those rules. I asked a question at the last RAMS meeting and it was as follows: In the past two years how many Chevy's won a feature? I came up with one, Marty Boyer. That is pretty sad that there are so many chevys out there and only one has won a feature. The responce I got was it is because the Ford guys have done their homework! I said NO, It is called Esslinger, Racer walsh, Race Engineering.
I also brought up the Milling the head 160, 170, 180 thousandths for trueness!
That is a bunch of BS. That is for compression, any idiot knows that. They frowned on that as well.
I had so much fun in the Chevette with a bone stock 2.5 last year. This year was not as fun, even with a FORD with a built 2.3. So next year I am going back to the chevy this time with a S-10.
I really hope we can work things out. This class is out pricing itself FAST.
 
Ahhhhhhhhh the answer.

Crate engines are the answer to the problem.... just ask the Late Model and Modified guys. :)
 
Millsey said:
You wouldn't want to seperate too far from RAMS rules that way when they race at SFCR they could still race.
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Mills...I'm not picking on you or anything but I figured the SFCR possible dates were just a ministock race and if we go with the same system as 2005 then the RAMS guys could get their points. Reason why I say that is being a Saturday Night race no MCS RAMS will be there and how many RAMS guys do we have at DRR? Could be a small car count. Even if it was on a Sunday night special or something I'm not sure you'd get the MCS guys down here. That's just saying "IF" the rules were changed. But of course the best thing for all is to keep them as close as possible.

Well I hope if there are changes to be made that DRR will let us know as soon as possible because I'm getting ready to do some upgrading on my motor. I'm one of those guys that ran pretty stock in '05. My motor was completely rebuilt this year and I "Might" of had $1000 in it. I think it ran pretty good considering what I had but dog gone it I'm ready to run towards the front again. If we change it then great save me some money. If not let me know so I can do what I got to do to TRY and get up front in my budgety kind of way. :D

I agree with you guys about this...Before I go spend $1,000s on a ministock I'll just move up. I'm still here though because I've got buddies that have been able to race with me in this class and some have moved on but another one will be racing next year for the first time. It's affordable to get into but not to run up front.

I have no problem taking a step back as long as we have the tools to tech everyone.
 
Bill, I completely understand where you're coming from... You've been one of the established racers in the class for a good while now and you need to know what to expect... I think you'll also agree that there is never going to be a "stock" mini stock class. Too many investments have already been made just to throw out the baby with the bathwater...
 
Hey isn’t the appeal of the RAMS that they are real race cars. I thought Drivers, pit crews, fans, ect… want race cars not stock junk to watch and or drive. I say you want to run junk go run hornets at I-55. If you want to run a real race cars welcome to the RAMS
 
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