Should an association over-rule track officials decisions?
- Thread starter Millsey
- Start date
t.nie
Patience Tester
All this looks to me like is a created opportunity to Slam the RAMS. Again. I am trying to figure out how the issue of an organizing body wanting to meet with a couple of people to discuss on-track behavior while participating in an event sanctioned by that organizing body should be up for discussion at all. Seems that is their business and their call, and their right to do so.
I would bet that if the thread starter was still in the seat and calling the meeting, he would be the first to tell other people to mind their own business, and let him handle it his way. Maybe it would be just as courteous to allow the current RAMS leadership to handle it theirs, without interference or making it into an issue for wider public debate.
I would bet that if the thread starter was still in the seat and calling the meeting, he would be the first to tell other people to mind their own business, and let him handle it his way. Maybe it would be just as courteous to allow the current RAMS leadership to handle it theirs, without interference or making it into an issue for wider public debate.
HobbieStocksFan
DRR Queen
T.nie
Your exactly right ! This is a matter for the RAMS organization. But as every knows Jeff Mills he cant keep from stirring up sh$t EVERY oppritunity he gets ! And i for one am sick to death of it !!!!!!!! He can brag about what all he did when he was the President but the fact remains, when he FINALY got out of the organization, people was sick of him and his tactics . Members left, and people wouldn't join IF he was involved at all ! We actualy had sponsors that would not sponsor if Jeff Mills was apart of it in anyway. Im truely sorry , as a RAMS officer, that everyone has had to read this crapp, started by the "Sh$it Disturber " himself !!!! We, the RAMS , are an awsome organization and unfortunately Jeff Mills decided last week to join again.... Because he has done NOTHING but stir up crapp and bad mouthing Crystal ( President ) and myself. LD
Your exactly right ! This is a matter for the RAMS organization. But as every knows Jeff Mills he cant keep from stirring up sh$t EVERY oppritunity he gets ! And i for one am sick to death of it !!!!!!!! He can brag about what all he did when he was the President but the fact remains, when he FINALY got out of the organization, people was sick of him and his tactics . Members left, and people wouldn't join IF he was involved at all ! We actualy had sponsors that would not sponsor if Jeff Mills was apart of it in anyway. Im truely sorry , as a RAMS officer, that everyone has had to read this crapp, started by the "Sh$it Disturber " himself !!!! We, the RAMS , are an awsome organization and unfortunately Jeff Mills decided last week to join again.... Because he has done NOTHING but stir up crapp and bad mouthing Crystal ( President ) and myself. LD
t.nie said:
racin90
Well-Known Member
Well...it should be left to the organization..if that is how matters to an organization are handled. If a track..overrules a rams decision..well..thats a different story. If you dont like the Rams organization..quit..form your own..and call the shots from there. Seems like they are a pretty wel run thing..and have handled manners strictly in the past..and seem to be doing so right now. Not fueling the fire..not takin a side..just stating..this has happened before..and noone points a gun to anyones head and forces them to go to an organization..or a race track. Dont like the matters..dont go..go somewhere else..form your own track..own organizations..ect...ect..and...well..so on,
Junebugs #1 Fan
JuneBugs #1 Fan
Millsey said:
How can an organization over rule a track, when the track made no rule????
I think that was the problem... Just curious..
Swappin Paint
Active Member
I see nothing wrong with the Rams officers arranging a meeting between a couple of competitors to try and defuse a situation. Thats been said that is what is happening. I think it shows they want to make a bad situtaion better before it goes any further. For that I give them credit.
On the the other hand, The questions Mills asked, I would have to say no. If the track officials in charge didn't see anything that warranted a call of some sort. Then I wouldn't think it would be wise for the association to go 1 better and issue any punishment. Put your trust in the officials at charge that they would make a fair and just decision.
On the the other hand, The questions Mills asked, I would have to say no. If the track officials in charge didn't see anything that warranted a call of some sort. Then I wouldn't think it would be wise for the association to go 1 better and issue any punishment. Put your trust in the officials at charge that they would make a fair and just decision.
i_love_wes_90
Sam 'No Longer Attached'
Jmo
Millsey said:
Jeff, I take that as a personal knock on that comment you posted. We ALLLLLLLL worked our butts off to sell those tickets, and if you think you can put up with rain, walk through the mud, then put up with heat, you go right ahead and say something. But until you've done it, DON'T go saying stuff about it when YOU weren't even there! Like Crystal said, we didn't run out of tickets until the VERY last minute! Then someone still had a couple tickets left to sell to the people that wanted them! WE ALL WORKED HARD TO SELL THOSE TICKETS! AND I HAVE A FEELING THAT WE PROBABLY DID A BETTER JOB THAN YOU EVER COULD'VE DONE!
t.nie
Patience Tester
6.2 All members are expected to exhibit good sportsmanship and behavior at all times when competing for and representing the RAMS, when traveling to and from RAMS events, and whenever displaying a RAMS logo on their vehicles.
6.3 Any member reported or found to be in violation of the sportsmanship and behavioral standards will be immediately suspended pending further investigation by the by-laws committee.
6.4 The officers and by-laws committee shall have the final say on punishment for said offenders.
I wonder if going on a public message board and starting a thread and then ripping into the RAMS leadership is covered by these rules?
http://www.ramsministocks.net/
6.3 Any member reported or found to be in violation of the sportsmanship and behavioral standards will be immediately suspended pending further investigation by the by-laws committee.
6.4 The officers and by-laws committee shall have the final say on punishment for said offenders.
I wonder if going on a public message board and starting a thread and then ripping into the RAMS leadership is covered by these rules?
http://www.ramsministocks.net/
Millsey
New Member
Well since I wasn't a member during the time you're whinning about where are all these sponsors and all these new members. Your 99% figure is a figment of your imagination LD.HobbieStocksFan said:
T.nie, this is not an issue to slam the RAMS. Far from it. It's just when I brought up the subject on the RAMS board it got deleted by a bias person who didn't want the subject to be discussed. That is the only reason I brought it to this board to get some straight, honest answers. If people think it's alright for an association to over-ride the on-track decisions of track officials then I just wanted to hear it. But from everyone I've discussed it with I can't find an individual who would agree that is the case. You of all people know me better than that.
t.nie
Patience Tester
From what I am able to gather, though, is that the track took no action. So the RAMS organization is not overriding any decision made by any track.
Just because the track officials don't have any problem with the RAMS drivers, that does not mean that the RAMS officials have to agree with them and do nothing. Far from it.
While the promoter knows that some good old fashioned bumping and banging is fun for the crowd, the RAMS leadership has decided to address it as unacceptable from their point of view. That is their decision, not the tracks, and RAMS members are accountable to the RAMS organization as well, not just the track. If anything, MORE accountable to the RAMS than the track, as the RAMS organization has a constitution and rules and by-laws that the track does not have. That and the fact that the drivers chose to join the RAMS and race under the sanction, something not required at any tracks that I know of.
I race in the Fastrak Midwest Region. I am accountable to the track officials and to Fastrak. Even if the track does not say anything to me, I still may hear about it from Kevin and Scott if they think I am driving rough. That is how it is when you race under a sanction seperately from the track.
I don't see what the problem is, or why it is an issue that needs to be brought up for discussion. It is a matter between the drivers involved who are RAMS members, and the RAMS leadership, nobody else needs to be involved at all.
If the members in question are not happy at being called to account by the organization they chose to join and who's rules and regulations they agreed to abide by, they can always resign their membership.
Just because the track officials don't have any problem with the RAMS drivers, that does not mean that the RAMS officials have to agree with them and do nothing. Far from it.
While the promoter knows that some good old fashioned bumping and banging is fun for the crowd, the RAMS leadership has decided to address it as unacceptable from their point of view. That is their decision, not the tracks, and RAMS members are accountable to the RAMS organization as well, not just the track. If anything, MORE accountable to the RAMS than the track, as the RAMS organization has a constitution and rules and by-laws that the track does not have. That and the fact that the drivers chose to join the RAMS and race under the sanction, something not required at any tracks that I know of.
I race in the Fastrak Midwest Region. I am accountable to the track officials and to Fastrak. Even if the track does not say anything to me, I still may hear about it from Kevin and Scott if they think I am driving rough. That is how it is when you race under a sanction seperately from the track.
I don't see what the problem is, or why it is an issue that needs to be brought up for discussion. It is a matter between the drivers involved who are RAMS members, and the RAMS leadership, nobody else needs to be involved at all.
If the members in question are not happy at being called to account by the organization they chose to join and who's rules and regulations they agreed to abide by, they can always resign their membership.
Millsey
New Member
Do you honestly think that Fastrak officials are going to make an issue out of a situation to where Paducah or Montgomery County or Mount Vernon track officials did not when it involved an on-track situation? Now I'm not talking about them casually telling you to tone it down on the side, I'm talking about setting up a special meeting to specifically discuss your actions while on the track (and if you didn't show up threaten you with a two week suspension!)
If you had a situation come up to where you got mad at some guy and while he was parked on the track during a caution or red flag you went and intentionally t-boned the guy and continually tried to rip his rearend off. Most of the time you're going to get the track officials involved, but if for some reason you don't then absolutely your association would need to address it. However that would be the exception and not the overall rule don't you think? In this case NOTHING HAS EVER HAPPENED that severe with the RAMS and I pray it never will.
And again, the tracks have not taken any action (black flag or such) against any of the drivers involved. That's what I'm saying. So in a case like that how could any association on their own just decide someone is driving wrecklessly and take some sort of action.
If you had a situation come up to where you got mad at some guy and while he was parked on the track during a caution or red flag you went and intentionally t-boned the guy and continually tried to rip his rearend off. Most of the time you're going to get the track officials involved, but if for some reason you don't then absolutely your association would need to address it. However that would be the exception and not the overall rule don't you think? In this case NOTHING HAS EVER HAPPENED that severe with the RAMS and I pray it never will.
And again, the tracks have not taken any action (black flag or such) against any of the drivers involved. That's what I'm saying. So in a case like that how could any association on their own just decide someone is driving wrecklessly and take some sort of action.
Dean
Racer
Situations like this are what membership owned organizations are for. I think the issues at hand here are about repeated rough driving that keeps falling just short of causing a caution, wich is when the black flag is always issued. I feel that it is much better for an association or officials to council drivers and let them know what they are doing wrong, and what they are expected to change about their ways to race with those officials. Than it is for them to be ignored until the black flag is waved.
I will admit that I am just offering my two cents, I am not in the know with the RAMS association. The closest I follow the goings on with the RAMS is to see how often the "Chicken Dance" is performed, and to see if the Chevy rod situation is resolved. I would like to wish my friends the officers of this association the best of luck resolving this issue without anymore poopoo stirring from the outside.
I will admit that I am just offering my two cents, I am not in the know with the RAMS association. The closest I follow the goings on with the RAMS is to see how often the "Chicken Dance" is performed, and to see if the Chevy rod situation is resolved. I would like to wish my friends the officers of this association the best of luck resolving this issue without anymore poopoo stirring from the outside.
hello everyone
i'm one thats envolved! the track had gave us punishment for the infractions and sent us to the back. taken care of!!!!! what happens in the pits after the race was over with needs to be taken care of with a meeting. the track owner has talked to both parties involved. told me to stay away from him and i would think he told the other party the same. but one thing if one racer comes down to say he was sorry for spinning the other racer out, mean while a pit crew member from the racer that got spun out, goes after the other racer with a floor jack handle . does that person need to be dealt with for his actions in the pits????? plus being called every name in the book many times before this incident. i'm not the one pushing this issue! what happens on the track is racing, no black flags, but we where sent to the back! what happens in the pits after the race needs taken care of!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i'm one thats envolved! the track had gave us punishment for the infractions and sent us to the back. taken care of!!!!! what happens in the pits after the race was over with needs to be taken care of with a meeting. the track owner has talked to both parties involved. told me to stay away from him and i would think he told the other party the same. but one thing if one racer comes down to say he was sorry for spinning the other racer out, mean while a pit crew member from the racer that got spun out, goes after the other racer with a floor jack handle . does that person need to be dealt with for his actions in the pits????? plus being called every name in the book many times before this incident. i'm not the one pushing this issue! what happens on the track is racing, no black flags, but we where sent to the back! what happens in the pits after the race needs taken care of!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i_love_wes_90
Sam 'No Longer Attached'
Maybe
If nobody tried to spin everybody out a million times a night
the RAMS wouldn't have had to HAVE a meeting!
the RAMS wouldn't have had to HAVE a meeting!
(AND no jack handles would've been involved either!)
*JMO*
duckhunter330
Steve "Duck" LaGarce
6.3 Any member reported or found to be in violation of the sportsmanship and behavioral standards will be immediately suspended pending further investigation by the by-laws committee.
This did not happen. If wolf was found guilty then why wasnt he suspended immediately. This on track wreck was over two weeks ago. I am not saying Wolf spinning Wes out was right but it is too late to do anything now.
I think the RAMS "should" have a meeting to talk to BOTH parties, and BOTH PARTIES ONLY, about actions ON and OFF the track. They are representing the RAMS and should do so like pro's. However making it mandatory, "at officers convience", if you cant make it you are suspended for two weeks, is not right. The officers should find a time good for all, ASAP.
So in a nut shell I understand both sides of the story.
This did not happen. If wolf was found guilty then why wasnt he suspended immediately. This on track wreck was over two weeks ago. I am not saying Wolf spinning Wes out was right but it is too late to do anything now.
I think the RAMS "should" have a meeting to talk to BOTH parties, and BOTH PARTIES ONLY, about actions ON and OFF the track. They are representing the RAMS and should do so like pro's. However making it mandatory, "at officers convience", if you cant make it you are suspended for two weeks, is not right. The officers should find a time good for all, ASAP.
So in a nut shell I understand both sides of the story.
smokingjoe
Owner RAMS 65 & 652
Just remember you dont have to see a black flag to see a driver be punished for something on the track. He can get sent to the back or DQed, I have seen both delt out from Mell to a RAMS driver and neither included a black flag. Now if the driver refused to go to the rear then Im sure it would come out.
