Tracks cancelling are hurting themselves and their sponsors

I was setting on the same row with him but in the next section about 12 seats down. At the same time my wife was under the bleachers
with a bunch of others fans where it was a little cooler.
 
Jimmy Cummins said:
I say if a sanctioning body wont do anything to find a different sanctioning body
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Moon, Kloos and Kiefer will probably finish top 15 at worst. But I agree whole-heartedly with what your saying. IMO, Summer Nationals should be a seperate series, or UMP should allow a maximum of 8 SN races to count with only 2 of those nights being eligible to earn bonus points. If you follow the formula, this would be nearly equal to the amount of points a local race might earn during the same 30 day period.

The current regime has become useless in regards to rule enforcement. There are so many guys with cheated up Crate motors and so many people running treated tires, that the honest guys don't stand a chance. Where has the sheriff or his deputies been all year? Tire testing was all the rave last year, now it seems to have been brushed under the carpet. Has there even been a Crate motor torn down this year?
 
Its seems to me many tracks these days arent enforcing the rules... An UMP is too busy catering to the big budget teams. An king eddy you are correct there are a handful of cheated up crate motors at tri city and when it was brought up to the officials they just laughed. so i guess these days its a free for all as long as you have sealed bolts. As long as this continues the car count for these small local tracks is gonna decline at most tracks i have been to all year there lucky to get 15 to 16 late models. yea i know the economy is bad but the small guys arent spending what they do have to be cheated every week. Its no longer a race of drivers to me its all on how big your wallet is. PPL can hate me for my opinion but idc...
 
eatdirt88....you nailed it big time! I agree with both you, kingeddy, Darkstar44, and my Jimmy.

Hopefully Jimmy will get this Modified working and we'll see more of him at local tracks.
 
Doug said:
Just a few thoughts on this topic.

1. Racetracks must consider the safety of its fans, competitors and employees when the weather dictates. I remember 1997 at Gateway International at the Busch Series race. It was 99 degrees that day and two people who suffered heart attacks that Saturday died later. Their heart attacks were directly attributed to the heat, according to then-Madison County Coroner Dallas Burke. At least nine other people who went to the track were taken to hospitals, and more than 150 people were treated, most for heat-related problems. Do we really want to bring that kind of misfortune on our sport, especially having lost so many tracks for various reasons over the past 30 years?

2. While we're on the topic of weather, I'm surprised so many tracks just recently started treating lightning seriously, given the fact it is so dangerous and deadly. I know I joke about "The Electrifying" Brian McCormick, but had the outcome been different, his family would have suffered a great loss, and we probably would have lost Godfrey Speedway about ten years before the track eventually closed.

3. Yes, it would be desirable to start racing later in the day, but when you combine curfews with multiple car classes, that math doesn't work out any better than the math I saw posted in another thread addressing what it costs to put on a show. Really, even under the most ideal conditions, four classes of cars are plenty.

My name is Doug Jenkins, and I support this message.
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I keep reading post after post about thanking the tracks for cancelling shows because of the heat . Did Belle Clair cancel the Nationals when it got up to 99 degrees that day. NO . Peoples health wasn't considered when they were financially going to make money . The same thing will happen this Fridays 100 lap race. If it gets hot the heat will not be a factor because they will make money . So please people they are not thinking of your health as much as they are their back pocket when canceling a show . If they think they thought they could make money in the heat they would run . It is still a business to them .
 
i was just thinking about it at the grocery store and a way to explain my thoughts came to me. the problem is not THE ECONOMY! if the economy was the problem, cardinals games would have 15,000 people at them, applebees and king edwards chicken would be closed, the movie industry would not be setting records every week, and bass pro / cabelas would be out of business. how many former racers can you name that quit racing and go boating / fishing / camping all the time? if the "economy" was the problem people would be staying home on the weekend, eatting bologna sandwiches and cutting stuff off their race cars with a torch........ that is what i do. the cost of being competitive is outragous. i am not at all competitive right now, and it makes me irate. By competitive i mean being able to go to big shows and make the show through the heat race, showing up at a race track and putting fear in the local guys mind, being a threat to win, being able to start 15th and make the top 5, etc. if you dont have high rent stuff you are a 2nd class citizen.

and kind eddy, the summer nationals already is a separate series that pays MORE than the national championship. it never was a problem when it was your best 2 nights a week, but now i think it is a problem because it hoses the weekly guys out of point money.

And as far as what was said earlier, i look at this differently. yeah, i am 'fortunate' to have a place to race, but if NO race cars show up at a track, how good of a show will a race track put on? i think promotors should feel 'fortunate' that so many people are willing to urinate so much money away on a weekly basis so that they have a chance to make a living.........
 
if your in racing to make money your in the wrong sport and shh brazil and germans beach volley ball is on
 
Jimmy Cummins said:
and kind eddy, the summer nationals already is a separate series that pays MORE than the national championship
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I know it is...let me clarify and re-word my intended point.
It should be a series unto itself that does not pay UMP National Points. The old system of best 2 nights/week wasn't broke, don't know why they decided to fix it.
 
Jimmy Cummins said:
i was just thinking about it at the grocery store and a way to explain my thoughts came to me. the problem is not THE ECONOMY! if the economy was the problem, cardinals games would have 15,000 people at them, applebees and king edwards chicken would be closed, the movie industry would not be setting records every week, and bass pro / cabelas would be out of business. how many former racers can you name that quit racing and go boating / fishing / camping all the time? if the "economy" was the problem people would be staying home on the weekend, eatting bologna sandwiches and cutting stuff off their race cars with a torch........ that is what i do. the cost of being competitive is outragous. i am not at all competitive right now, and it makes me irate. By competitive i mean being able to go to big shows and make the show through the heat race, showing up at a race track and putting fear in the local guys mind, being a threat to win, being able to start 15th and make the top 5, etc. if you dont have high rent stuff you are a 2nd class citizen.
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Sounds like your driving in the wrong class maybe you could drop down a class or two and get your wish. (Sportsman, bomber)
 
This thread has turned into two different issues, and I'll post my opinion on both.

I understand that racing is a business, and I definitely don't want to see any tracks close their doors. That being said...SCHEDULE nights off periodically before the season starts. There are plenty of tracks in the area that run on the same night where fans can get their fix. That way, those scheduled nights off could also, in turn, be used for make-ups (rainouts, heat, etc.) Maybe only do 3 nights/month instead of 4. Of course, this idea may not work since drivers may schedule vacations, etc around the scheduled nights off. I don't claim to/nor want to be a promoter. I'm just simply tired of tracks canceling due to "heat" when every other track in the area is running. Just tell me the truth and I'll respect you for it.

Next, UMP is a joke. Summer Nationals is a joke. Unless you run the most of the tour, you can almost kiss the top 3 (possibly 5) in points good-bye. Top 10 as of now and where they finished in SN points: Shirley(1), Babb(2), Weaver(17), Unzicker(5), Feger(4), Sheppard(3), Schlenk(21), Keifer(49), Pierce(12), Schmitt(33). Shirley got the title handed to him. Yes, I realize he's a good driver. Yes, I don't like him. Yes, that may cloud my judgement, but there's very little supporting evidence to support otherwise. The tour either needs to be ran as a separate entity of UMP, or there's no point to the weekly racer running for UMP points money.

There will always be controversy in this sport. People cheat. Promoters/Sanctioning bodies allow it. Is it right? Absolutely not. Is it going to change? As long as there is fierce competition, there will be cheating.
 
kingeddy said:
If your a business man sponsoring racing, and your worried about "What your getting for your money" (other than a tax write off) you probably have no business sponsoring it. In fact, you probably have no business being in business. Lets face it, unless your a race shop or other business who's target audience is car or racing related, there are much more lucrative and cost effective advertising opportunities out there than the limited audience of 500 to 1000 people you will impact once or twice a week. Most who sponsor racing know this before they ever write the check.

Speaking solely for myself, I can honestly say I don't expect to see any return on my donation. And IMO thats basically what it is....a donation. I sponsor a race track, two racecars, a vintage car, along with a number of softball and little league teams, a hockey team, a barrel racing association, and high school rodeo to name only a few.

I do so because of my love for those sports, the individuals involved, and my desire to see them thrive and flourish. Of course that is contrary to what you bashers are accomplishing with your ridiculous criticism and uninformed opinions. You people are not true fans and supporters of the sport, but merely selfish minions who's lack of loyalty is surpassed only by your ignorance of the consequences of your actions.

By wrongfully and irresponsibly bad mouthing the tracks and heaping public ridicule upon the promoters (who are making business decisions based on criteria unknown to you), you are doing much more harm than than your little pea-brains will ever be capable of understanding. The negativity you are spreading by making a post like this, will leave lasting detrimental impressions in the minds of current and future patrons and your mindless rants will also deter potential sponsors. Great Job! If you really want to inform the promoter of your opinion, maybe next time you could do it privately.

Thank You to all the bashers for your unwaivering support, and for un-doing the good I felt I accomplished by sponsoring racing and trying to keep it alive.
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So when a track or racer comes to me for sponsorship, say $1,000, I as a business owner shouldn't expect to see anything in return? That has got to be the most idiotic statment ever!!! Good thing you don't speak for tracks or racers. Saying sponsors shouldn't expect to see any return. So the bar I own, shouldn't expect to see the racer, his family, friends, & fans at my bar?? Or the heating / cooling company shouldn't expect promotion? Hmmm, kind of makes me wonder why the announcer makes reference after the driver captures the win. Why is Jimmy Johnson talking about Kobolt tools, if Lowes shouldn't expect any return?

My original post was in relation to the tracks that promote that they run April - September for X amount of races, knowing rainouts are unavoidable, one should expect 80% plus number of nights that my product is being exposed too. Next year I'll inform the track, when they hit me up for $$$$ and see what their reaction is.

Btw, I do know this is not true at all, the exposer at the track produces customers, loyal customers!
Also, it was pretty pleasant at the tracks that did run this weekend.
 
Dave34 said:
Here's a past post from Gas It...seems like he/she is not a fan of the heat either.

http://www.stlracing.com/forums/sho...ace-at-gateway&p=699967&highlight=#post699967
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A couple of points.
1. It was hot, I was there.
2. I took in a 12 pack of beer into the track that day, I went home with the same 12. I was smart, drank water, took several breaks from the race and I'm still here.
3. The reason I haven't been back to the track is due to the previous owners. Another topic.
 
2 Thumbs up!!!!

Can I get a H*ll Yeah up in here!
racingfan03 said:
This thread has turned into two different issues, and I'll post my opinion on both.

I understand that racing is a business, and I definitely don't want to see any tracks close their doors. That being said...SCHEDULE nights off periodically before the season starts. There are plenty of tracks in the area that run on the same night where fans can get their fix. That way, those scheduled nights off could also, in turn, be used for make-ups (rainouts, heat, etc.) Maybe only do 3 nights/month instead of 4. Of course, this idea may not work since drivers may schedule vacations, etc around the scheduled nights off. I don't claim to/nor want to be a promoter. I'm just simply tired of tracks canceling due to "heat" when every other track in the area is running. Just tell me the truth and I'll respect you for it.

Next, UMP is a joke. Summer Nationals is a joke. Unless you run the most of the tour, you can almost kiss the top 3 (possibly 5) in points good-bye. Top 10 as of now and where they finished in SN points: Shirley(1), Babb(2), Weaver(17), Unzicker(5), Feger(4), Sheppard(3), Schlenk(21), Keifer(49), Pierce(12), Schmitt(33). Shirley got the title handed to him. Yes, I realize he's a good driver. Yes, I don't like him. Yes, that may cloud my judgement, but there's very little supporting evidence to support otherwise. The tour either needs to be ran as a separate entity of UMP, or there's no point to the weekly racer running for UMP points money.

There will always be controversy in this sport. People cheat. Promoters/Sanctioning bodies allow it. Is it right? Absolutely not. Is it going to change? As long as there is fierce competition, there will be cheating.
Click to expand...
 
Jimmy Cummins said:
i was just thinking about it at the grocery store and a way to explain my thoughts came to me. the problem is not THE ECONOMY! if the economy was the problem, cardinals games would have 15,000 people at them, applebees and king edwards chicken would be closed, the movie industry would not be setting records every week, and bass pro / cabelas would be out of business. how many former racers can you name that quit racing and go boating / fishing / camping all the time? if the "economy" was the problem people would be staying home on the weekend, eatting bologna sandwiches and cutting stuff off their race cars with a torch........ that is what i do. the cost of being competitive is outragous. i am not at all competitive right now, and it makes me irate. By competitive i mean being able to go to big shows and make the show through the heat race, showing up at a race track and putting fear in the local guys mind, being a threat to win, being able to start 15th and make the top 5, etc. if you dont have high rent stuff you are a 2nd class citizen.
Click to expand...

Jimmy I agree with some of your comments on here, and will politely disagree with some too. 1st off I do believe the economy has taken it's toll on racing. To what point can be argued I guess but racing hasn't went unscathed. Is it simply that racers and fans no longer can afford to attend or to race? I'm sure for some, but others may be just deciding to do different with what they have after the economic hit everyone has taken. Maybe the husband and wife and their kids have to limit attending. Instead of weekly they may only get to come a couple times a month. Trust me I'm married with 2 kids so I know how money has to be reshuffled to keep everyone happy...lol

But, I do feel the rising cost of racing has hurt racers and the track car counts as much if not more than anything. The cost of fielding a competitive race car is absolutely ridiculous and don't think anyone can argue that. I feel that goes for every division, if you figure in what is raced for. I think a lot of the racers you say that are bowing out and going boating or camping may be doing so because of that fact. I think and know some are just finding it tough to invest what it takes to be competitive and are not willing to show up and be just an after thought. No you shouldn't get into local level racing to see how much money you can make. But you for damn sure shouldn't go broke either. These guys can go camp, boat, dinner and a movie ect ect with the family and everyone has a good time. Or go race and everyone like it but the racer gets the real enjoyment. Just a little food for thought.

I think it is a hurdle that promoters are going to have to find a way over. Yes fans in the stands are needed. But fans won't pay to see 10 car fields for long. There are ways to make racing more cost friendly. We will just have to see which track promoter blinks first and takes those steps!!!!
 
There have been some good points made on this thread is the first thing that I would like to say. I have my own opinion about the state of local dirt track racing and I know that some may agree and some may disagree. I do not think the economy is the only factor to the decline of stock car racing but it has greatly accelerated it. Stock car racing like every other sport looses old fans and gains new ones every year. That is a fact of life. In the past the new fans balanced out with the fans that were lost. This changed with the birth of the internet when the new fans stopped keeping up with the fans that were lost. There are not just near as many younger kids getting interested in racing anymore. Many of them are more interested in surfing the internet than than working on a stock car to get in ready for the weekend. I live in a small town and you can go by a local ball diamond or basketball court and they are empty when you used to see a dozen or more kids out there everday. You don't even see very many kids riding around town on bicycles anymore. Stock car racing is not the only sport that has been affected by the change of time. I live two blocks from a bar with a softball field. In the 70's and 80's, there were games there every night and tournaments almost every weekend. Now I think they play two nights a week and I have seen tournaments there maybe two times this summer. I do not want to see dirt track racing die because it is what I look forward to every weekend. I hope this all works out in the end. Good luck to all of you racers out there.
 
3Abreast said:
I keep reading post after post about thanking the tracks for cancelling shows because of the heat . Did Belle Clair cancel the Nationals when it got up to 99 degrees that day. NO . Peoples health wasn't considered when they were financially going to make money . The same thing will happen this Fridays 100 lap race. If it gets hot the heat will not be a factor because they will make money . So please people they are not thinking of your health as much as they are their back pocket when canceling a show . If they think they thought they could make money in the heat they would run . It is still a business to them .
Click to expand...

I agree! At least tell the truth why they are cancelling. They aren't cancelling because of the heat if they have a show another time with the same temps. I understand everyone's "concern" with the welfare of the patrons, but their welfare don't matter when there are people in the stands and cars in the pits.
 
GAS It said:
So when a track or racer comes to me for sponsorship, say $1,000, I as a business owner shouldn't expect to see anything in return? Good thing you don't speak for tracks or racers.
Click to expand...

No, that is not at all what I said. I plainly stated, "If your worried about what your going to get for your money".

If your concern is ROI (which is the premise under which you started this thread) or if your business is not financially stable enough to shell out a meager $1000/year to advertise on what is obviously the lowest impact advertising available to you, then you shouldn't spend the money on it. It requires minimal research to reveal which type of advertising provides the highest ROI. By failing to do so, you are making a bad business decision by irresponsibly spending the limited working capital you have available. If you do not have the basic business skills to make informed and intelligent decisons, such as "what is the wisest way to spend $1000 of my limited advertising budget?" ....then you shouldn't be in business at all.

That is what I was saying. I also prefaced the remainder of my post "Speaking solely for myself"

Nowhere in my post did I make reference that a current or potential sponsor "shouldn't expect to see anything in return". And obviously we are not talking NASCAR and Jimmy Johnson who offer national tv exposure, so please... don't be stupid.

I was speaking only for myself, not a track or a driver. It was not my intention to degrade the value or importance of track sponsorships. I only mentioned that I sponsor racing because of my love for the sport...not because I expect something in return.

Remember, you are the idiot who jumped on the internet and publicly defamed the tracks by professing that they are hurting themselves and their sponsors, not me.
 
King. Few points

1. Your 1st reply comes across as I shouldn't expect ANYTHING in return. That's a pretty dumb statement. One should expect something.
2. My point is that with no races = no fans that see the car/billboard or hear the spot as announced.
3. But the promotors/drivers come to me wanting $$$$ for the exposer saying we run every Friday/ Saturday night + the fair and special shows. Yet they cancel because it's 90 degrees outside. It's a little bait and switch, in my opinion.
4. It may not provide the highest return of money, I never said or implied that statement. You did. But it does work and works fairly well for me. But it works only when they're running.
5. I really don't care what you spend on advertising. I never asked. Nor do I think it is relevant. Nor is relevent on what I spend.
6. I'm the idiot for stating my opinion?? That track are hurting themselves? They are when their sponsors are affected. When I make more, I'll spend more with them. Amazing how that works.
7. We sure did have a nice weekend though.
 
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