UMP at it again
- Thread starter ALCOHOL
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faustfan2
Active Member
Look at the kids mod payout and then look at the factory stock/street stock payout and the kids mod payed more than they did!!! My question is when are these tracks going to grow the balls and finally say enough is enough we need to listen to our fans and drivers and the ones who pay our bills and walk away or are they going to do exactly what they are doing and bow down and be Sam Driggers little b*****!!! It's time the drivers and fans stand up if the tracks arent!!
I know this won't be popular and I'll probably be regretting it about 5 vicious replies from now, but the above posts got me curious to put pen to paper and try to figure out exactly how much money DIRTcar is making by sanctioning the Stock Car class. If it turned out to be a huge number, it might motivate me to shoot off some emails to the right people and cry 'foul'. This has nothing to do with whether DIRTcar rules are good or bad, or whether their sanctioning the Stock Car class is a positive or negative. I just spent a whole day in meetings along with a lot of other promoters discussing those issues, including voicing my thoughts about whether a National Championship is beneficial for a class of local cars. But I wanted to put pen to paper to figure out just how rich they are getting by sanctioning the Stock Car Class.
I looked at the last membership list sent out in October and can count roughly 200 members in the Stock Car division. UMP pockets $70 of the membership (forget printing cards, mailing costs, staff costs etc). So the Stock Cars in 2014 earned them roughly $14,000 before expenses.
I also manage a sprint car series and am kind of familiar with the cost per driver of the supplemental insurance included with your membership. I'm going to assume that given the bulk volume, they can get a driver covered for a third or less than I can for our series. If so, they have at least $25 per head for your insurance. Probably more than that. So 200 drivers at $30 is $6,000 in insurance costs on those 200 drivers.
This leaves about $8,000 in 'profit' from the Stock Car memberships. About $40 per head. Sure it's profit, but it's not a fortune. Certainly not enough to justify a 5-fold increase in Championship payout.
The sanctioning fee for tracks for the Stock Car class is a whopping Zero. They don't get paid by the track each night we race Stock Cars like they do for Late Models or Modifieds.
They pay out $10,000 in National Points and about $5,000 in regional points for the class. They were doing this well before the membership requirement, so I'm guessing this money comes from sponsors such as a purple tire company. I would be shocked if the Stock Car class alone generated a whole lot more than the points fund payout from tire money. I have a good feel for the "rebate" on late model tires, but the Stock Car class runs a cheaper tire than the late models and many competitors run used tires from Modifieds. If they are getting $X per new Modified tire sold in a class with 200 cars, most of which don't make it past the 10-15 race per year mark, with many of them buying used tires.... I don't think that the Stock Car class is making a huge difference in the total number of Modified tires sold. I'd venture to guess that 15% or less of the total new Modified tires sold were sold to Stock Car drivers across all of DIRTcar.
I don't know how many trophies were handed out to Stock Car drivers, but would 75 be close? Those trophies are pretty nice but I'm sure they get a nice discount, but lets throw $20 on a trophy just to give them the benefit of the doubt. There's another $1,500 in cost.
The point of the above is that my pen to paper numbers don't show anybody in Charlotte making off with some huge pot of gold from the Stock Car class. Are the making a little money? I'm sure they are. Is it six figures worth like everyone assumes? No way! Not off of this one class. My bet is that after everything is considered, the total 'haul' for them off the Stock Cars alone is in the 4 figures. I wouldn't do it for that.
How many tournaments or leagues do my kids enter for $50 a pop during the course of the year? Too many. If the kids are getting paid a grand and a 5 ft trophy for winning the thing, they are doing a good job of hiding it from me.
Again, this has nothing to do with the larger more popular debate of whether DIRTcar sanctioning for this class is good or bad or whether Sam is or isn't Satan. (Notice that they have two letters in common.... hmmm)
For those of you doing the math on Factory Stocks.... I count 114 members in that class.
I looked at the last membership list sent out in October and can count roughly 200 members in the Stock Car division. UMP pockets $70 of the membership (forget printing cards, mailing costs, staff costs etc). So the Stock Cars in 2014 earned them roughly $14,000 before expenses.
I also manage a sprint car series and am kind of familiar with the cost per driver of the supplemental insurance included with your membership. I'm going to assume that given the bulk volume, they can get a driver covered for a third or less than I can for our series. If so, they have at least $25 per head for your insurance. Probably more than that. So 200 drivers at $30 is $6,000 in insurance costs on those 200 drivers.
This leaves about $8,000 in 'profit' from the Stock Car memberships. About $40 per head. Sure it's profit, but it's not a fortune. Certainly not enough to justify a 5-fold increase in Championship payout.
The sanctioning fee for tracks for the Stock Car class is a whopping Zero. They don't get paid by the track each night we race Stock Cars like they do for Late Models or Modifieds.
They pay out $10,000 in National Points and about $5,000 in regional points for the class. They were doing this well before the membership requirement, so I'm guessing this money comes from sponsors such as a purple tire company. I would be shocked if the Stock Car class alone generated a whole lot more than the points fund payout from tire money. I have a good feel for the "rebate" on late model tires, but the Stock Car class runs a cheaper tire than the late models and many competitors run used tires from Modifieds. If they are getting $X per new Modified tire sold in a class with 200 cars, most of which don't make it past the 10-15 race per year mark, with many of them buying used tires.... I don't think that the Stock Car class is making a huge difference in the total number of Modified tires sold. I'd venture to guess that 15% or less of the total new Modified tires sold were sold to Stock Car drivers across all of DIRTcar.
I don't know how many trophies were handed out to Stock Car drivers, but would 75 be close? Those trophies are pretty nice but I'm sure they get a nice discount, but lets throw $20 on a trophy just to give them the benefit of the doubt. There's another $1,500 in cost.
The point of the above is that my pen to paper numbers don't show anybody in Charlotte making off with some huge pot of gold from the Stock Car class. Are the making a little money? I'm sure they are. Is it six figures worth like everyone assumes? No way! Not off of this one class. My bet is that after everything is considered, the total 'haul' for them off the Stock Cars alone is in the 4 figures. I wouldn't do it for that.
How many tournaments or leagues do my kids enter for $50 a pop during the course of the year? Too many. If the kids are getting paid a grand and a 5 ft trophy for winning the thing, they are doing a good job of hiding it from me.
Again, this has nothing to do with the larger more popular debate of whether DIRTcar sanctioning for this class is good or bad or whether Sam is or isn't Satan. (Notice that they have two letters in common.... hmmm)
For those of you doing the math on Factory Stocks.... I count 114 members in that class.
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I was replying specifically to Faustfan's comment about Stock Car/Factory Stock payouts at the banquet regarding how they were too low... and also addressing a common complaint in the Stock Car class about "what happens to all the membership money" - since mandatory memberships are relatively new in those classes.
And you are correct. There are more Late Model members than Stock Car members. About 25% more. 260ish total LM Members vs. 200ish Stock Car Members.
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faustfan2
Active Member
Just to clarify something here... there is a difference between the street stocks and the hobby stocks/factory stocks. By doing your math you should have looked at the kids mods and seen how many members there is in that class!! I'd venture to say there is 15 kids in this country doing that class yet you said in the hobby stock class there was 114 members but yet the kids mod champion got $1025 and the hobby stock champion got $1000 and the pro-4 got a $1000!! Please explain to me the reasoning behind this?? I must be seriously missing something here!!! I truly believe if UMP wants these "lower" class' s to buy membership fees then the end result should be much higher!!! You can not tell me that the parents paying for those kids mods have more invested than the hobby stock guys and same goes for the pro-4!!! You can build a pro-4 around $1500 but yet they get the same pas out at the end of the year as the hobby stock guys!!! Something is seriously wrong here and yet you try to tell me that someone isn't making money here!!! Yea you go tell that to someone else because we all damn sure know better!!!
I understand what you are saying Faustfan.... but I'm telling you that if you asked me to run a factory stock series with 114 members that pay $80 for a membership, and I only get $50 of that $80 ($5,500 total membership revenue from the class) and then I had to pay your insurance on top of that to the tune of at least $2,500 for those 100 members and that was pretty much all I was going to make from that specific class... I'm going to have a hard time finding the $5,000 they are paying the class now out of my membership money.
Yes, you deserve more. But they are paying out to the Factory Stocks more than the Factory Stock class by itself made them. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying it's right or saying it's wrong. Factory stock memberships made them about $3,000 according to my math (which could be wrong, but should be close) and paid out $5,000. If they pay that class more, it's probably coming from money earned on account of another class - which might be fair and might not be fair depending on your view.
As for the Kids mods... I didn't even know they had that class. Maybe the money came from a sponsor for that class. Maybe there's some Kids Mods chassis manufacturer that gave them some money to pay out. Maybe they took it out of the late model or modified pot. Maybe they banked some extra dough from some World of Outlaws show. I don't know where it came from, but it didn't come out of the factory stock pot.
And I don't mean any disrespect to the factory stock class or drivers. Street Stocks are a very important part of our program at Jacksonville and I have many friends and drivers I respect in that class. It's the only traditional looking race car we have left. All I am saying is that memberships alone in those classes don't generate the huge money for DIRTcar that people seem to think it does. There are plenty of legitimate beefs people can have with them, but banking a small fortune off of Stock Car/Factory Stock memberships isn't one of them.
Yes, you deserve more. But they are paying out to the Factory Stocks more than the Factory Stock class by itself made them. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying it's right or saying it's wrong. Factory stock memberships made them about $3,000 according to my math (which could be wrong, but should be close) and paid out $5,000. If they pay that class more, it's probably coming from money earned on account of another class - which might be fair and might not be fair depending on your view.
As for the Kids mods... I didn't even know they had that class. Maybe the money came from a sponsor for that class. Maybe there's some Kids Mods chassis manufacturer that gave them some money to pay out. Maybe they took it out of the late model or modified pot. Maybe they banked some extra dough from some World of Outlaws show. I don't know where it came from, but it didn't come out of the factory stock pot.
And I don't mean any disrespect to the factory stock class or drivers. Street Stocks are a very important part of our program at Jacksonville and I have many friends and drivers I respect in that class. It's the only traditional looking race car we have left. All I am saying is that memberships alone in those classes don't generate the huge money for DIRTcar that people seem to think it does. There are plenty of legitimate beefs people can have with them, but banking a small fortune off of Stock Car/Factory Stock memberships isn't one of them.
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dirt hound
Registered User
I will say it again there is too many classes, how many of theses classes over lap in tech and some classes should not be in the mix with UMP too many variance of rules from track to track I believe bob pierce is behind the the kid mods and are you really complaining about 25 bucks I think its already spent because they travel from track to track and these kids are the new blood I racing
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#1dirtracingfan
Member
Jimmy is right on the kid mods. Sam simply allows for them to be recognized at the ump banquet. They don't get paid for racing at the end of a race night there's no nightly purse the only money they collect is point fund money at the end of the year that people who run the series go to sponsors and collect
dirt hound
Registered User
955 drivers took late model points and 1555 drivers took mod points 288 b mods 821 sport stocks 444 factory stiocks
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dirt hound
Registered User
better check again
I did. I stand corrected on my number of members. I thought my list was all members, and it's Midwest Members. I thought the late model number seemed awful light and was getting seriously worried about the health of that class nationwide when I counted from my list. I'll stand by my basic premise of about $30 - $40 to the good per member in the lower classes. $60-70 to the good in the upper classes. And again, I think I'm really light on the insurance cost. For our series, we pay $75 per member. I gave them the $30 figure for insurance just to show they are getting something.
Light on my number of members, but I think pretty light on the expense of insurance too.
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wild1and83fan
Well-Known Member
At least 9 out of 10 pure stock/ street stock guys don't want ump anyways, so why not give them the boot in the lower division's?
