Speaking of biased opinions. We obviously know where you stand Mr Dearing. I can't believe as the owner of this "supposedly news site" you would even consider posting something like that. Now a lot of things are beginning to make sense".
UMP Crates vs Fastrak
- Thread starter NoWingsPlease
- Start date
Speaking of biased opinions. We obviously know where you stand Mr Dearing. I can't believe as the owner of this "supposedly news site" you would even consider posting something like that. Now a lot of things are beginning to make sense".
I would like to challenge that If I may. Did you just see the post by the owner of this site? Come on guys. This can't work 1 way. The street runs both ways doesn't it?
TNIE, your prejudice against me is pretty eivdent. FYI: Before you throw me under the bus and that of my company, please note the engine that he was thrown out with in Green Valley AL was a NEW engine, never being ran with FASTRAK before. Your 'insinuation' was that we don;t do our job in tech.
The crank he was thrown out with should have been sent to GM to be verified. The marks were strange to me when shown considering the resources RCR has, why would they do something so evident? Especially knowing good and well the engines were going to be torn down at a $25,0000 to win race. HMMMMMMMMMMM.
Since then, we have found, photograped and catalogued several engines that came straight out of the crate with marks on the crankshafts. We are tracking it across the country. This seems to have happened when GM was going through the bankruptcy. At least the timing was the same.
Todd, if you are upset with me, give me a call and lets get it corrected. Don't drag all these good people through the mud everytime someone makes a comment about FASTRAK. They know you used to run that region and obviously have hard feelings for some reason.
Lets keep this informative instead of making it personal. Fair enough?
wheel spinner
Member
Mr.PR,
Is it not obvious where you stand also?
Would you do us a favor and make it very clear exactly what should not have been posted.
Originally Posted by jdearing View Post
Fastrak uses their own seals, therefore you must get your engine rebuild done only through them. The closest rebuilder to St. Louis is in Seymour, Wisconsin or Poland, Ohio.
Perhaps the closest is in error.
UMP sanctions weekly racing, weekly payouts are done by track. There have been plenty of good paying UMP specials!
Maybe "some" should be used instead of "plenty".
UMP has taken motors for complete tear down on several occassions. I certainly remember some on here complaining about Fastrak doing no tech at West Plains earlier this year.
Neither are perfect.
Perhaps Mr. PR objects to being put in the not perfect category.
The real differences in the cars are shocks and tires that are allowed. UMP is trying to stop the $2,000+ people are spending on a set of shocks. Many don't like that because they already have the investment or know they will be much slower without the high dollar shocks!
Maybe the word "some" should have been used instead of "many".
Help me out. I'm not making sense of your statement "Now a lot of things are beginning to make sense" Please use quotes when explaining.
I agree. If you're gonna call out Jimmy, then at least point out his mistakes to the rest of us who missed your point...
2HARD2HANDLE
New Member
Fastrak you HAVE to have seal bolts, Ump you DON'T
Fastrak will let you run cannister shocks, Ump will not (and now you have to run there special shock)
Fastrak makes you run Goodyears, Ump makes you run Hoosiers
Fastrak TECH YOU EVER NIGHT, Ump doesn't TECH you at ALL
Fastrak has a BETTER pay, Ump pays S U C K S
Fastrak catches you CHEATING your done, Ump says NOTHING
I forgot to add that you spend 25000 to win a big 10000 (ump) and if you was running fastrak and spend 25000 at least you still have a better chance to win 50000 and they give MOTORS away and NEW CARS, and ump doesn't do that at all.......I'm starting to thank fastrak is the way to GO...................
Fastrak will let you run cannister shocks, Ump will not (and now you have to run there special shock)
Fastrak makes you run Goodyears, Ump makes you run Hoosiers
Fastrak TECH YOU EVER NIGHT, Ump doesn't TECH you at ALL
Fastrak has a BETTER pay, Ump pays S U C K S
Fastrak catches you CHEATING your done, Ump says NOTHING
I forgot to add that you spend 25000 to win a big 10000 (ump) and if you was running fastrak and spend 25000 at least you still have a better chance to win 50000 and they give MOTORS away and NEW CARS, and ump doesn't do that at all.......I'm starting to thank fastrak is the way to GO...................
jmaco racing
Member
you can have the motors rebuilt at baldwin race engines, cliffords machine shop, hatfield is thinking about it so it is not a big thing having a motor rebuilt true that ump has had motors teched and i know of one that was protested, it was pulled and never left the tech building except to go back in the car for the following week but was said to be right and never tore down..... as far as the shocks if you buy all the shocks you need to run on different surfaces ( slick ,fast ,rough ,etc) you will spend more that $2000.00 for a fact. you can but t-2 afco's for around $1600.00 for the four shocks and replaces all the other ones so the dbl adjustable is really cheaper. really ump is costing you more money by having to buy all the extra shocks. besides this year almost all ump cars have to buy all new shocks and so you might as well buy 1 shock that does the job of 5 or 6 do
jmaco racing
Member
at benton ffffaaaaaaaasssssssssttttttttrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkk will get the cars.. like the old saying is ( if you run them they will come ) benton will be a good track if run right
2HARD2HANDLE
New Member
as far as the shocks if you buy all the shocks you need to run on different surfaces ( slick ,fast ,rough ,etc) you will spend more that $2000.00 for a fact. you can but t-2 afco's for around $1600.00 for the four shocks and replaces all the other ones so the dbl adjustable is really cheaper. really ump is costing you more money by having to buy all the extra shocks. besides this year almost all ump cars have to buy all new shocks and so you might as well buy 1 shock that does the job of 5 or 6 do
But then UMP will not get there $$$$$$$ for these bs shocks that they are going to try and make you run........The only reason for these shocks that ump is going to is because they are getting MONEY out of it..........
But then UMP will not get there $$$$$$$ for these bs shocks that they are going to try and make you run........The only reason for these shocks that ump is going to is because they are getting MONEY out of it..........
jmaco racing
Member
t.nie
Patience Tester
I kept it informative from the start. It never was personal. However, any time I make any comment on anything to do with Fastrak, it becomes another opportunity for you to make it personal and accuse me of hard feelings, sour grapes, grudges, whatever. I don't give a dam about you, your racing series or anything you do any more. Haven't for quite a while. But every once in a while something will pop up regarding crate racing, and if I feel like making a comment on it, then comment I will.
If you don't like it, too bad.
Regarding your comments above, I'll address a few things with your own words.
4m.net website postings from Fastrak PR regarding the GVS incident with the Dillon kid said:
My post on this thread? That Fastrak had nothing to do with costing the Dillon kid $25,000. And I offered up the reason why Fastrak’s name was drug into it was because the Dillon kid was well known to have run well in Fastrak events and never had a problem passing tech. Again, another plain old factual statement. No insinuations, no hidden agenda. Just a fact. The Dillon kid has won a lot of Fastrak events, ran well in numerous events, and never had a problem in tech concerning their engines. That's why people drug your sanction into it. He ran well with your series, got busted at a non-sanctioned event. Nothing more, nothing less. If you feel the need to defend your sanction because of those circumstances, that's all down to you. If I were in your shoes and my reputation was beyond reproach, I wouldn't bother to get involved at all beyond stating that I can only tech what happens at my events. End of story. But you're you, and I'm me.
The only insinuation, if there was any at all, was that Dirtwizard didn’t have his facts straight. And he seemed to take that just fine and went on to explain why he thought Fastrak did a good job with tech, and used another event as an example. Fair enough.
Now, what I do find kind of interesting about some of what Fastrak is posting about the crank issue here and now is that, at the time, Bill Hendrens, Fastrak Authorized Rebuilder, stated in response to someone saying the Dillon team should take GVS to court and clear their name: “how could you clear your name with a crank that was clearly illegal to anyone who works on 604 engines?” http://www.4m.net/showthread.php?t=121403&page=2
Hendrens also offered a complete explanation of why those marks on the crank were not typical and would not be a result of anything that occurred in production: “That part of the crank is where the forging die contacts and it has no flashing for the factory to grind off. If the crank had been ground on the upper edge of the rod journal where the flashing is common it would have been called legal by me and most likely any other tech that sees a lot of cranks.” Statement from FASTRAK - 4m.net (This is the thread title, Hendrens statement is not to be taken as part of the statement from Fastrak. It was posted in reply on the thread later on in the conversation)
Now, on this website, months after the fact and in response to me, you, FastrakPR, are defending Team Dillon and criticizing GVS tech, even though Hendrens, who has acted as a Fastrak tech official in the past and is widely recognized as one of the leading authorities on crate engines, was at the time of the incident categorically stating the crank was illegal and why.
My take on it is it seems kind of odd that at the time one of your experts in the field was quite happy to toss the team under the bus and explain in detail why the crank was illegal, and now your on here tossing GVS under the bus saying they didn't handle it right and they should have sent the crank to GM, but me merely mentioning that it was at a non sanctioned event where all this occurred is "throwing you and your organization under the bus?"
You stated that yourself. I really don't know why you have a problem with someone else simply restating it again now.
To No Wings Please, I say best of luck whatever sanction you decide to go with. If it were me, I think I would be fairly tempted to not run them under any sanction at all and just take care of it with my own people. And if it were me, I would be running crate engines sealed straight from GM, no rebuilds, and only allow a few bolts to be removed for repairs.
Say if a guy showed up with one head with no factory seal bolts in it that would be fine, but no factory seal bolts in both heads the engine is illegal. I figure you can get 2 seasons out of a $5000 engine with maybe one component needing to be unsealed for repair at the most. So that's $2500 a season or less for an engine. If it breaks bad enough to need a rebuild, the racer can sell it for a bomber engine or a good core for something else and go buy a new one.
Hell, you read all the time from some of these sanctions how new engines straight out the box from GMPP with no rebuild/blueprinting win some big races, so why let the genie out of the bottle and open it all up for the cheaters to take their chances? Make the crate engine class a CRATE engine class, not a class BASED on crate engines.
That's my opinion. I think if you did that, a lot more guy would be wanting to race crate engines. And it would be a damn sight cheaper in the long run too. You could very well end up with the hottest thing going in crate racing in a couple years. And no high dollar shocks. Leave that stuff to the super guys. And pick one hard tire and stick to it. Go with a tire deal that lets you deal directly with the manufacturer, not some middleman promoter. You'll get a better cut of the profit that way. The racers all seem to like that best too. And make them run pump gas, no E85. One less thing for racers to play with to try and get an advantage.
Good luck.
Bud_Man_8
Member
if this was myself i would check and see what tracks are sanctioned ump on friday nights and what tracks are sanctioned by fast track. if you have more ump sanctioned tracks on a friday that run crates then i would go that route. also dont forget that granite in all reality isnt that far benton. its a straight shot down i-55 so i wouldnt count some of those guys coming down if you were to go with ump. also if you santion one class ump i would santion all the classes to be ump. jmo cant wait to be there on saturdays!
wheel spinner
Member
If you are going to make the Crate class your premier class and run Sportsman class also then I would go with Fastrak.
If you want to run Supers and Modifieds and make Crates a 3rd tier class in place of the Sportsman class then I'd go with UMP.
There are more variables such as payout, entry fees, and point funds. How fair the bottom half of the class feels they have been treated will determine their loyalty. Don't put much credence in who has the biggest pay race. Instead find a way to reward those who support your track all year but don't win much. Siphoning money from the weekly payout to subsidize a big race full of outside ringers demoralizes your lower finishing loyal base. Remember that most racers have a limited amount of money to spend before they have to quit racing. Your job is to keep them from hitting that limit too quickly.
wahooracing
Active Member
Does Fastrak have an approved FORD crate motor?
No, they have the same GM602 and GM604 engines that UMP uses.
wheel spinner
Member
No. There is no such thing as an GM authorized re-builder. And GM does not offer replacement seals.
Some sanctions mandate the use of their own seals and make their own proprietary seals available only to their own authorized builders. An ASA sealed engine may not be legal for Fastrak and vice-versa but both would be UMP legal if they met the GM spec. manual.
For more info go to the UMP website and read the rules.
Some sanctions mandate the use of their own seals and make their own proprietary seals available only to their own authorized builders. An ASA sealed engine may not be legal for Fastrak and vice-versa but both would be UMP legal if they met the GM spec. manual.
For more info go to the UMP website and read the rules.
2HARD2HANDLE
New Member
Hell
Ump should just go ahead and make u run a rayburn in the crate class, for all the stuff they are making you change.. I really thank that it would be good (NOT).............So what do you thank they will change NEXT, but we ALL know that all the changes they are doing is for the WORST..........
Ump should just go ahead and make u run a rayburn in the crate class, for all the stuff they are making you change.. I really thank that it would be good (NOT).............So what do you thank they will change NEXT, but we ALL know that all the changes they are doing is for the WORST..........
westlingracing
Race or Die
Dont Forget ULMA is in the area, Mid Missouri is their territory, and they are close to 50% running crates now. I see it staying consistently at that percentage for cars running crate motors just because these motors are doing so well. Dont make it just Fastrack vs. UMP you gotta add in ULMA they pretty much have ran Fastrack out of Callaway Raceway and I see no future of UMP adding a crate sanction there. I even have a hard time seeing them keeping the mods UMP. I know STL is UMP country But there are better ways than UMP. And Limiting shocks and not checking cars will drive cars to Fastrack. I dont have any experience with Fastrack but I know they dual sanctioned with ULMA at Callaway and it worked pretty well. Not sure what happened there why the sanctioning didnt happen there last year?
If taking suggestions on where to pursue future sanctioned tracks I'd really like to see Moberly Missouri's 24raceway be a crate or limited track. Its big and fast and usually pretty slick most of the time, I ran some MLRA shows there in the past and its a good track Its just they have for years tried to bring racers down out of Iowa, I think they will start looking at going UMP mods to draw more from the StLouis area. ULMA is in negotiations with them right now for the Latemodels, I'd really like to see a crate only track this side of Stl other than Lake Ozark. Next year is looking good for change. only time will tell. If UMP doesnt watch it they might loose a few, just because of the shock deal!!!!!!
If taking suggestions on where to pursue future sanctioned tracks I'd really like to see Moberly Missouri's 24raceway be a crate or limited track. Its big and fast and usually pretty slick most of the time, I ran some MLRA shows there in the past and its a good track Its just they have for years tried to bring racers down out of Iowa, I think they will start looking at going UMP mods to draw more from the StLouis area. ULMA is in negotiations with them right now for the Latemodels, I'd really like to see a crate only track this side of Stl other than Lake Ozark. Next year is looking good for change. only time will tell. If UMP doesnt watch it they might loose a few, just because of the shock deal!!!!!!
NoWingsPlease
New Member
Benton Weekly Show
I am continuing to work with Mr. Holliday on gaining the lease on the track. It may take a couple of weeks but I am very confident it is going to happen. My plan is to run Crate Late Models, Modifieds, Street Stocks and the 4 Cylinder division. My plan is to pay the crates $600 with a good payoff down the line $60 to start, modifieds $700 with $75 to start, street stocks $300 with $40 to start, and 4 cylinders $150 with $25 to start. I want to be able to fill the field in all four divisions. As far as what sanctioning body, that will have to be dependent on what is best for the track, participants, and spectators. I will guarantee a quick moving show and if you are not on the road by 10:30 I will be disappointed
I am continuing to work with Mr. Holliday on gaining the lease on the track. It may take a couple of weeks but I am very confident it is going to happen. My plan is to run Crate Late Models, Modifieds, Street Stocks and the 4 Cylinder division. My plan is to pay the crates $600 with a good payoff down the line $60 to start, modifieds $700 with $75 to start, street stocks $300 with $40 to start, and 4 cylinders $150 with $25 to start. I want to be able to fill the field in all four divisions. As far as what sanctioning body, that will have to be dependent on what is best for the track, participants, and spectators. I will guarantee a quick moving show and if you are not on the road by 10:30 I will be disappointed
