UMP? No UMP? How to help our local tracks?

RACN911

RACN911

Well-Known Member
First off let me preface this by saying that this is a ONE POST thread. Once you've voiced your opinion, that is it. I really don't want 5 people arguing with each other.... Feel free to "like and dis-like" , so please say your peace in one thread....
It's been going around Facebook for quite a while about how people feel about UMP and local dirt track racing, so instead of starting a poll about if you like that our local tracks are run by ump, I thought I would start a civilized discussion on it.
First off I want to say that I WAS a big fan of it back in the day. Uniform rules for the Lates and Mods at all UMP sanctioned tracks.. $4-500 claim rule on the engines. etc etc etc. Racing was fun, and a blast to watch. What happened since then? Everything has gotten WAY out of hand. The cost of everything is insane. If your going to play, your gonna have to pay, i guess.
Rules enforcement---- I think the current UMP administration has really dropped the ball when it comes to rules enforcement........ Some have to abide, and some don't. I guess it just depends if you are a big name driver and draw a crowd to the dream, and that's just one of many examples that I know of.
Lower tier classes--- Why make us buy memberships? I expect nothing from ump at the end of the year? I MAY race 14 times this year, and that ain't going to get me squat in points money . They do NOTHING for us. PS thanks for the extra insurance.
How about since I am a member of your elite club perhaps I should get to vote on what rules are used from year to year..... Example..... Do we want all of the street stocks on street tires? End of the year I get an E-mail with a link to vote. Should B-mods be forced to buy a 604? The B mod drivers get an email.. It really isn't that hard to get Racers opinions about what is good or bad for the class. Open your ears, and listen. ASK them!!! ALL of them!!!
Hoosier tires? Why? Why? Why? that's all I'm going to say about that. I'm trying to keep my comments civil.
All that being said, I believe that our local tracks are better off without UMP. I read in a facebook post the other day about how cool it would be for all our local track to have their own sanctioning and give UMP the boot. Maybe if a group of midwest tracks stands up to UMP, UMP will get things back to the way they were, and the races that I love will still be around when my sons are my age.
This is my first and last post. Please voice your opinion and try to keep it civil.
Thanks for reading
Adam Koch
 
the lower classes should never been involved crates lates a and b mods yes the rules are so different from track to track for the lower classes tech should be a priotity and same tire rules for the sanctioned classes across the board
 
I agree with adam and dirt hound's posts Ive said this for years and its just a feeling i have But if ump wants to be a sanction then sanction! Meaning make a unified set of rules and stick to them Not let each track have "their own" set of rules Seems sometimes they eant the koney but donot want to do their jobs Yes they have a good point fund But as a big picture how many benefit from it? The insurance is a good deal but i dont know if its good or not as i havent seen any stories of ones who used it Good conversation Plus and here is my biggest deal The track wouldnt have to pay the big membership fee either and can roll that into point funds and weekly purses Anything to help to local guys They are running for the same money as they were 20 or so years ago I realize track costs have exploded but if you can help guys race weekly and draw more cars then you male more money
 
RACN911 said:
First off let me preface this by saying that this is a ONE POST thread. Once you've voiced your opinion, that is it. I really don't want 5 people arguing with each other.... Feel free to "like and dis-like" , so please say your peace in one thread....
It's been going around Facebook for quite a while about how people feel about UMP and local dirt track racing, so instead of starting a poll about if you like that our local tracks are run by ump, I thought I would start a civilized discussion on it.
First off I want to say that I WAS a big fan of it back in the day. Uniform rules for the Lates and Mods at all UMP sanctioned tracks.. $4-500 claim rule on the engines. etc etc etc. Racing was fun, and a blast to watch. What happened since then? Everything has gotten WAY out of hand. The cost of everything is insane. If your going to play, your gonna have to pay, i guess.
Rules enforcement---- I think the current UMP administration has really dropped the ball when it comes to rules enforcement........ Some have to abide, and some don't. I guess it just depends if you are a big name driver and draw a crowd to the dream, and that's just one of many examples that I know of.
Lower tier classes--- Why make us buy memberships? I expect nothing from ump at the end of the year? I MAY race 14 times this year, and that ain't going to get me squat in points money . They do NOTHING for us. PS thanks for the extra insurance.
How about since I am a member of your elite club perhaps I should get to vote on what rules are used from year to year..... Example..... Do we want all of the street stocks on street tires? End of the year I get an E-mail with a link to vote. Should B-mods be forced to buy a 604? The B mod drivers get an email.. It really isn't that hard to get Racers opinions about what is good or bad for the class. Open your ears, and listen. ASK them!!! ALL of them!!!
Hoosier tires? Why? Why? Why? that's all I'm going to say about that. I'm trying to keep my comments civil.
All that being said, I believe that our local tracks are better off without UMP. I read in a facebook post the other day about how cool it would be for all our local track to have their own sanctioning and give UMP the boot. Maybe if a group of midwest tracks stands up to UMP, UMP will get things back to the way they were, and the races that I love will still be around when my sons are my age.
This is my first and last post. Please voice your opinion and try to keep it civil.
Thanks for reading
Adam Koch
Click to expand...
 
ump is all about the money.if you have a product and enough money all the sudden its legal.Take the quickchange rearends and aluminum brake calipers in the modifieds for example. Lets not forget the carbon fiber driveshaft that is now legal also.Need to go back to the days when the modified class was started,when you did not need a ton of money to be competive and it was fun to race.
 
No ump if they will not tech. Yes to ump if they do tech. Opposite way for another sanction. Tech is crucial. To me, it doesnt matter either way, we just need common rules that are enforced.
 
Here are some random thoughts from one track operator. I'm the first to admit that I'm wrong as often as I'm right.

1. Cars need to get cheaper to buy, maintain and race.
2. Sanctioning bodies are good for the sport for a lot of reasons (rules, championships, publicity, support etc.)
3. We work with both UMP and IMCA. Both have good people in charge and both are well intentioned. Neither are against the racer. Both recognize the importance of participation and affordability.
4. Sit in a room full of promoters at a sanctioning body meeting and you'll see where the job of the sanctioning body gets hard. As tracks we are always looking out for number 1 - myself included. A room full of good people with different interests. What is good for a track in Northern Illinois might not be good for a track in Kentucky. What is best for the tracks I run is best for me. Then we all look at the sanctioning body to fix it.
5. Cars need to get cheaper to buy, maintain and race.
6. We should find a way to take $7,000-10,000 out of a Modified engine or at least make it not matter. If we could make the 604 a competitive option, we might have solved that. The crate shouldn't be the only option, but by making it a competitive option we reduced the cost to compete. (Picture how happy the wife would be if you sold that 12,000 engine, bought a 5,000 engine, put $7,000 in your pocket and she could still watch you pass cars and not be lapped traffic)
7. We should focus more on the engine of the B-Mod and less on other parts. The 602 should be about as good of an engine as you can run. There's a good argument that a used quick change and a Bert or Brinn and a 4 bar car isn't costing the racer any more money given used parts that are available and cheap rollers with those parts already on them. I'm not sure any of the above are much of a performance advantage but the quick change lets a guy more easily race at other tracks and are already on half the used rollers in the area. (See... I'm disagreeing with both UMP and IMCA on a rule... and I really don't want to bend on the rear end rule, but probably should for the sake of uniformity among tracks. That's where it gets hard cause I'm looking out for #1)
8. Cars need to get cheaper to buy, maintain and race.
9.Getting a consistent and single set of rules for UMP Stock Cars (Street stocks) will be nearly impossible given the cars that are out there. Tracks can get together and make rules that work for cars in their area.
10. The 4 cylinder cars have become 'race cars' with 'race car drivers', which is fine, but it hurts the entry level driver. Local tracks need a "knock the windows out and race it" class with big inverts, local drivers, no pressure to win, and no points battles that last all season. To become a racer a guy first needs to watch a race and think "I can do that" and "I'm not going to look stupid trying."
11. Cars need to get cheaper to buy, maintain and race.
12. I can count on one hand the number of people I know who have bought a super late model and started racing that class in the past 3 years who didn't already have access to a car and equipment from a parent who raced. I can't count on two hands and two feet the number of people I know who have parked or sold a Super Late Model in the past 3 years. Modifieds are following a similar trend slowly but surely.
13. In Central Illinois go kart tracks are full of people racing who a few short years ago were racing real race cars.
14. Cars need to get cheaper to buy, maintain and race.
15. The last weekly show at Jacksonville had two cars parked outside of the gate for sale and two racing with for sale signs on them.
16. Did I mention that cars need to get cheaper to buy, maintain and race?

It's not the sanctioning body's fault by themselves. It's all of our faults. Sanctioning body, promoter, driver, car owner, and fan. (Yes, the fans aren't as willing to show up when we race cheaper race cars. Look at the crowd difference between a crate and super show most places.) We just all look to the sanctioning body to solve problems that aren't easy to solve. Are you willing to spend money changing over a perfectly good race car to conform to rules 5 hours away? Am I willing to lose cars at the track to make things better for a track 5 hours away? No... we aren't. If everyone interested in the sport could give the sanctioning bodies a clear path to follow... I'm sure they would follow it. To do that requires all of us to give here and there for the health of the sport. Personally, I haven't been very good at wanting to do that. I'm looking out for #1.

Ken Dobson
Jacksonville Speedway
Lincoln Speedway
Quincy Raceways
 
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No quick changes in bmod and let's all forget they ever built a crate motor that isn't the answer they keep handing them down from class to class and it hasn't worked in anything to easy to cheat ! I don't know what the answer is but if you let me rephrase that WE want to see local racing survive there better be some changes made!
 
Imo the rules are set to help the big money team's and any new rules they make always seem to help as well...seems they want to knock out the lower budget guy's in the LM and AMods! The cars and team's I seen as a kid was a much lower budget field of cars but the racing and entertainment was just as good if not better then today's racing! I believe the promoters in this area could really come together and make it without ump! We have a great group of guy's running these tracks around here just like we have the best driver's and teams in the country right here in our area! There's so many things that could be done to make it cheaper and the stuff to do it is simple. The membership these lower class guy's are paying is a bunch of cap and it's nothing more then a money grab cause ump is trying to get out of a hole they dug themselves! Jmo
 
In my opinion UMP has lost (or at least changed) their focus.
The cost to compete in all divisions is out of hand. Some of that is the racers' fault, some is UMP's fault. The problem with UMP "evolving" the rules is it makes it more difficult to rein the costs in, so the answer is to start another class. We don't need more classes, but we probably need to replace or eliminate some classes.

UMP missed the boat with the SLM. Instead of going with the same rules as the big series, they should have held the line on costs. WISSOTA, IMCA, WDLMA type rules make much more sense for the WEEKLY racer. UMP seems to be set on turning LM into a specials only class. When they added two weekends to the SN, they put a few more nails in the coffin of weekly LM racing. Same with the ALMS series expanding. You can argue that those series are better for the racers because they run for more money, but on nights when the LM aren't at your track, the fans won't be there either.
Instead of adding a crate late model class, they should have continued with the practice of running the crates with the supers with weight breaks, taller spoilers, etc.

I want UMP to make money, but I want them to make money because they do a good job, not because they require racers to buy a license. I supported their decision to require a license for the support class drivers because I was told that UMP was going to use the money to hire technical inspectors. We all know how that worked out. UMP's policy is to pass off the tech inspections to the promoters. Most promoters won't seriously tech the cars because they don't want to turn any racers away.

Trying to get the support classes to unify their rules seems like an insurmountable task, but Mr. Memmer did it with the late models so I think it could be done with the support classes. The way to do it is get input from the racers and promoters, then make a set of rules and stick to them, not the wishy-washy way UMP tried.

I think UMP lessened the value of their sanction to the promoters when they dropped the 50 mile rule. That decision, and others they've made had more to do with politics than the long term health of the sport.

I'd say in the early years UMP deserved a B+ grade, but in the past 5-8 years I'd give them a D at best. No, I don't think they need to be replaced by another sanction, but they certainly need to start making decisions that are in the best interest of the sport. If they don't, the door will be wide open for a different sanction to get a foothold very soon. It will likely start with the mods.
 
Put front fenders on the Mod's
Run a B-Mod open motor with 2 Barrel Rochester
Merge the sportsman and streetstocks in the most economical way possible and again I think going with claimer engines and choking them with a rochester would work
3 classes ran for years with many many fan's all 3 nites of racing and was work out great then some idiot came up with UMP and broke what was working out for everyone
 
Alright, now we have heard form a local promoter from here in central il. If that's the case Kenny. Why don't you guys get about as many tracks as you can that can have the same rules together and hammer out a set of rules that can be enforced. Any rule that you guys don't want to waste time teching don't have it as a rule. I feel like you can have J-Ville, Lincoln,Macon,Peoria,Fairbury,Farmer City, on the same rules but, yet they all allow things to go so, they don't lose cars or can gain cars which in these lean times I'm not really blaming anyone but, it's not helping in the long run. If other tracks want their own rules and don't want the same maybe they can get together with tracks in their area and come up with a set of rules they can live with. I know some are going to say well what if I want to go here or there and race well that would be a problem but, really how many in the lower class are really traveling anyway. And if you somehow many times are you really traveling a race season.

You say make the cars cheaper to build and maintain well that would be up the promoters to come up with a set of rules that could do just that but, I feel in order to come up with those rules you will need input from drivers or owners that will know what will work and what won't. Guys that have been in the sport for long time. Guys that have gotten out of the sport because of he cost of it.

Now these rules would only apply to the lower classes because the upper classes are suppose to be on the same page already correct?

What I do know if we don't do something and something quick more mad more tracks are going to close.
 
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Pops15 said:
In my opinion UMP has lost (or at least changed) their focus.
The cost to compete in all divisions is out of hand. Some of that is the racers' fault, some is UMP's fault. The problem with UMP "evolving" the rules is it makes it more difficult to rein the costs in, so the answer is to start another class. We don't need more classes, but we probably need to replace or eliminate some classes.

UMP missed the boat with the SLM. Instead of going with the same rules as the big series, they should have held the line on costs. WISSOTA, IMCA, WDLMA type rules make much more sense for the WEEKLY racer. UMP seems to be set on turning LM into a specials only class. When they added two weekends to the SN, they put a few more nails in the coffin of weekly LM racing. Same with the ALMS series expanding. You can argue that those series are better for the racers because they run for more money, but on nights when the LM aren't at your track, the fans won't be there either.
Instead of adding a crate late model class, they should have continued with the practice of running the crates with the supers with weight breaks, taller spoilers, etc.

I want UMP to make money, but I want them to make money because they do a good job, not because they require racers to buy a license. I supported their decision to require a license for the support class drivers because I was told that UMP was going to use the money to hire technical inspectors. We all know how that worked out. UMP's policy is to pass off the tech inspections to the promoters. Most promoters won't seriously tech the cars because they don't want to turn any racers away.

Trying to get the support classes to unify their rules seems like an insurmountable task, but Mr. Memmer did it with the late models so I think it could be done with the support classes. The way to do it is get input from the racers and promoters, then make a set of rules and stick to them, not the wishy-washy way UMP tried.

I think UMP lessened the value of their sanction to the promoters when they dropped the 50 mile rule. That decision, and others they've made had more to do with politics than the long term health of the sport.

I'd say in the early years UMP deserved a B+ grade, but in the past 5-8 years I'd give them a D at best. No, I don't think they need to be replaced by another sanction, but they certainly need to start making decisions that are in the best interest of the sport. If they don't, the door will be wide open for a different sanction to get a foothold very soon. It will likely start with the mods.
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of what you said other then the 50 mile rule. May the best promoter or track survive..
 
I think it's time tracks started reassessing their operations and come up with an alternative approach that works in today's economy, based on what the situation is today, not what it was 20 years ago when UMP, Super Late Models, A mods, etc came to exist.

Big outfits like TCS, I-55 can keep doing what they are doing. Obviously the crowd and fan base there are large enough to keep the track open. However, many smaller tracks would benefit from rethinking their approach from following the lead to inventing something new that would bring more revenue and attendance to their tracks.

I would run a show that didn't have Supers or Crates or A-Mods. I would create a Stock V8 class and a Stock 4 cylinder class as the entry levels. Weld a roll cage in, window nets, fuel cell, remove the glass and race it. No other modifications allowed. If you ask if you can do anything, just assume the answer is no and don't bother asking. No prize money, just trophies for the top three. The no purse rule would eliminate most of the money folks who want to buy their way to the front. Oh, and a claim rule. Car wins two features, track claims it and resells it. The only stipulation is if you buy it, you race it, and you can't have raced in the class before. Get some new blood in there and deter spending money to win.

I would also have a class similar to TCS street stocks, let a little more in at that level, rebuilt engines, Hoosiers, etc. Make that the next step up class and pay a small purse, like $100, $75, $50, $25, $10 and that's all. Again, deter spending by reducing the money to win.

Top class B mods with 602 crate engines. Claim the engine from anyone wins two or more features, but don't ever say when that will happen. Keep em guessing. Tear it down immediately and if it comes back legal, you get another stock 602 from the track and yours becomes the swap engine for the next claim. If it's illegal, you're out for 12 months we'll give you yours back in pieces. And a purse, for say the top 10, from $250 down to $10.00.

4 classes. Lots of door knocking promotion, get your friends and family out to see you race. Schools against schools, gimmicks, good food, popcorn, cans of soda for a buck. Make it affordable fun again.

I agree with the promoter above, it needs to be cheaper to buy, maintain and race a car at the local dirt track. But you're never going to do that if you just keep running the same classes and catering to the same big money racers week in, week out. You want to make racing cheaper and more attractive to the people around your track, start making some changes in how you do things.

No one but the track promoter is going to reduce the cost of racing. It just depends on whether or not someone is prepared to break the mold and try something new.

Just to be clear, this isn't a game plan to draw people who love SLM and A mods and all that away from their entertainment. But it is a plan to cater to the less well off in the local community and encourage participation again and give people who don't have the money to race at the tracks available to them now a place where they just might think they could.
 
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Aftermarket parts companies..as long as sanctioning bodies allow you to run these high dollar parts, people with money will keep buying them. Big problem.
 
just 2 cents........ There are guys willing to spend 15k-20k to have someone else build them a street stock... to race for a $150 to win nightly.... and this is happening in all classes below the Amods.....(upper classes, you just have to spend that to keep up)... how do we fix that? that is a core problem in dirt track racing.............. the reason the classes get paid differently is (ideally) if your racing for $150 to win you shouldn't have to break the bank to compete.......... but you've got..... bassholes out there willing to burn unrealistic $$ to buy wins..... so everybody else is forced to at least try......... really?? a new RR tire on your fricken SS every weekend??........ remember............ we are on hoosiers BECAUSE it was cheaper to buy used hoosiers than new DOT's...... the SS class might as well go back to street tires........
sorry to get hung up on streets, ( that's just my class) but its happening all throughout........ example....... Bmods,,, "well,, all these used cars have 4 links and QC rearends ...so lets just make them legal".....sure until some jerk calls down to elite and buys a brand new 20,000k Amod roller with all the bells and whistles and sticks a crate motor and say (Mike Harrison) behind the wheel of it....... Who's ganna be screwed then?.... the guys who bought old used stuff..... right..... so yea its the sudden influx of money (which is normally a good thing) that is hurting........... the barely making it guys, have no incentive, just say screw it and start leaving their stuff at home about midseason. why go broke to run for 8th and $30 start money?..... its frustrating I moved down out of the UMP SS class to get away from those guys..... and here i am 1 year later chase guys with the same unrealistic budget and racing for less money..... I don't need to win more money.... I just want to be able to compete for what little money that gets spread around.......... Sorry again that turned out to be more than just 2 cents.....ha there ya go......

Kristopher K Blankenship
 
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I have been around racing for 25 years and have been involved with IMCA USRA and UMP. UMP is good for the supers and A-mods but the lower levels of racing is a joke with them. Let's face it the lower classes are what keeps the doors open, they pay the same to get in but get little pay. The sanctioning bodies is just that bodies not supers and a's. UMP is hurting themselve by not having a national set of rules, how can a guy from TCS go race against someone he is in a national points battle with, the rules don't allow that. IMCA and USRA both have a national set of rules for all classes. A guy from Florida can come race against someone in Minn to earn a national championship. USRA provides tech personnel for each track they have a huge points find for all classes, they help with the track points fund. More and more tracks are going to USRA. The Midwest has seen a lot of growth for USRA most of those tracks switching from ump. I don't see the tracks in the St. Louis area ever switching from ump but would love to see it and if they ever did it would only be for the a mods not all classes. To see growth in the lower levels you need to have a good set of rules where a guy could go race multiple tracks. 10 years we had a street stock we raced in central mo, had 3 track championship with the car and raced the same car at 12 tracks within 2 hours of home with only changing tires and gear and a few small thing to make us legal. We were not front runners at all tracks but we never missed a show because we were to slow. TCS as and Pevely sportsman how many tracks can you guys race at?


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Here are my thoughts. Go ahead and keep ump for the supers and a-mods. They need to make the summer nationals its own separate deal though. Pay 6k -7.5k for weekday shows and 10k-12k for weekend shows and along with a little tow money and 30k for the winner of the deal. I think that would give a guy that runs locally twice a week a better chance at a national title. Let the summit mod series count towards national points though. It seems a lot more of the mod drivers are the 9-5 working guys where as a lot of your top ump SLM guys race for a living. It would be nice to see the tracks in stl area get together and make a uniform set of rules for ss b-mod. A street stock should be exactly what it called. Stock suspension street tires and a deasent small block with a 2bbl
. does ump have a training class on the rules and what to look for when teching a car? B-mods with a 602, 3 speed and a 9 inch.
 
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