461's compared to dart heads....give me your opinions please.....

heads

I dont see any way the 461 heads will stay with the darts at pevely.Maybe at belleville when its dry.Im not saying that 461s cant be worked over (porting etc) to stay with the darts, but according to the rules, they cant be angle milled, ported or polished.Sure , you can get a set from brezenzki, for 1900 dollars(undercover ported or acid ported, and im sure that there are alot of those running allied, but there is no way an unported 461 will make the same power as the dart.Again.Its like saying a 283 will run with a 350.It wont happen if there built by the same rules .Just my opinion.Good luck this year.
 
the 461 will run with a dart,and when the track is dry it just makes it that much easier...on a heavy track the 461 will still run with the darts,not very easy but they will..there are more factors to a GOOD motor then the heads..what i mean is you build a motor to the heads.the heads are the BRAINS to the engine,then you match compression,stroke,cam,timing,degrees,and air fuel into that..when all this is done to mate together you get a really good foundation...when you build a motor to coincide with the 461's,it can pull just as much power as a motor with dart heads if you use some knowledge..what alot of poeple gotta realize is motor is only about 40% of what wins a race,there is another 60% for setup and driver..there are 450hp crate late models that run good against 750hp full blown late models..there are claimer imca modifieds that run with full blown 700 hp ump modifieds,use your head,build a good reliable motor with descent hp and torque numbers,focus on good setups(free car up) and driving,and you wont have a problem at all running up front,thats the facts!!!!!!
 
heads

Hey Racer 94, not trying to ruffle your feathers.If you can builld a matching combimation for a 461 head engine, then you can build a matching combination for a dart headed engine.I will guarentee that a dart headed engine will have the most wins at pevely.Mayy not bellevile because of the small track.Plus are the 461 heads you are talking about ported ?.The rules say NO PORTING.Im not saying you cant cheat with the 461s(acid porting or undercover porting) and be competetive, but with a sock 461 , unported, heads,there is no way.Again just my opinion.
 
railrocket007......

We are not able to do any port work to the 461's or the dart heads. You'll need to factor in all of the restrictions we have in this class. One is the 2 barrel carb, the other is intake. Correct me if i am wrong here......A 461 head is about 175cc-180cc intake runners. A dart head has either 200, 215, or 230cc runners. When you can't match port the intake to the heads doesn't that restrict the cc's of the runners? Plus our intake is not that good of a one to begin with. Yeah if you take a dart head and have a good intake on it, etc. then yeah i do believe that it will beat a 461 especially at pevely. But we will not even get the full use of what the head can produce due to our restrictions. So yeah i believe given them things the 461's can do it. I am not against the darts just trying to get info on the difference between them. I still may go with the darts because i came across a set today for a price you can't beat. If i were only running belleville this wouldn't be a issue to me. I would deffinately be running the 461's. But i am running pevely too so i want to make sure i am up to par with the motor. I am happy with the responses i have gotten with the post so far. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion. That is why i started this because i was wanting everyones opinions. Now another thing. Does anyone who is reading this know if most guys are staying with the 461 or are alot of the going dart? Just curious. Thanks again everyone for the replies. Keep them coming because i am still interested as to what some of you may think. Thanks again.

Tom
 
no feathers ruffled railrocket..the 461 will run with the dart heads per your guys rules.one thing you gotta remember and this particularly aplies to this class because of the restrictions is bigger isnt always better..with the rules you have you are not getting anymore out of the darts then the 461,if anything the 461 are getting there full cc,and the darts are being restricted cause of the bigger runners,pretty much equaling them out..now if you build a motor to flow and take in the amount of cc that the 461 is putting to it,then you will have a good engine..if you build a motor that is taking in more than it can burn,well your over kill..like i said i am in no way knocking the dart head,but i say with these rules the 461 will deffinately run with the dart..if anyone is interested in the combination,let me know ill give it to you..good luck smalldirt!!
 
I believe how good of a motor you have makes a difference, but last year even with my new engine I was still out powered by some cars I raced with. I think how you set up your car and how you drive it makes as much if not more of a difference. I think you guys are worrying too much about it. I plan on going to Pevely and Belleville once with my old allied engine with 1.94 and 1.6 valves in my 461 heads and I think I will be able to run with anybody. I guess we will see.
 
Flow rates

Straight from GM Performance The largest intake runner ever in a factory head was 177cc of the Vortec. The 461 family was a mere 164 with the 882 flowing @5-6cc more.
 
you are right little 302,but it depends what batch of 461's you have,some where better then others...461 in the right motor with right setup will run with any dart...alot of the 487 flowed well also...
 
Hey Tom, Just run the Ford SVO N-351 head and you wont have to worry about any steel headed chevy outpowering you at any track!

Sorry folks, I couldnt resist!
 
lmao--i dont like fords at all but our buddy does have a wicked 408 with n-351 heads and it runs pretty good..i myself would go mopar before i went ford,but since i am a CHEVY man i have no reason to wanna go to either one:)....that outta stir the pot a little..
 
The Dart heads will perform great on a track that you are in the throttle most of the time. The smaller tracks that you are on and off the throttle alot the Dart head will be at a disadvantage. This statement is only true when running a 2 bbl.
 
Your right Tom, I think the biggest factor you should keep in mind is that your STILL on an un-modified 2 bbl Holley carb and the choice of intakes that Allied gives you in my opinion arent very good, but they do that to keep costs down naturally you can get these intakes for less then a $ 150.00. If Allied opened up the intake rule like are are doing with this head rule, the guys that can afford to spend the money are going to be on the phone with Dart, Pro, or whoever and they are going to get the best they can buy. But right now as long as they keep the intake and carb rule, that they have now I really dont see being at a real dis-advantage with a 461 head, you have to keep in mind all the horsepower in the world isnt going to make a whole lot of difference in your not getting it to the track. That old throw together motor I had in my last car at Belleville was nothing to write home to mom about thats for sure, but I think it did a pretty damn good job and as long as your running against other Allied cars, and they dont start changing the carb, intake rule in my honest opinion I think you will do fine with a good set of 461 heads. Oh and by the way I still have a set for sale if anyone is interested !

Good luck to EVERYONE in the 05 season

Brian Dawson
 
tc521 said:
Hey Tom, Just run the Ford SVO N-351 head and you wont have to worry about any steel headed chevy outpowering you at any track!

Sorry folks, I couldnt resist!
Click to expand...

NOW TERRY, MAYBE 1 OR 2??? :D

ALL DUE RESPECT, 1 OF THOSE WAS A MODIFIED MOTOR. :D
 
Thank you eveyone for the replies. I am going run the 461's and take my chances. Like a few of you have said already it isn't all about the motor. You have to be able to get through the corners quick with a good setup. You can have the best motor in the world for this class but if you can't get your car to handle and get the power to the ground you have no use for the awsome motor. So now that i have decided what head to run i am ready for some racing because i am now curious as to how these heads will run against the darts. Keep your fingers crossed but i think we will do just fine. Thanks again everyone.

Tom
 
Originaly posted by Pitdrifter.
Now Terry, Maybe 1 Or 2???

All Due Respect, 1 Of Those Was A Modified Motor.
Click to expand...


I said you would never be out powered not out driven! he,he.
 
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