this is interesting. I did not know that some people had guns in the pits.
Brian Shaw gets hit in head with jack handle at Haubstadt
- Thread starter jdearing
- Start date
theplummer
Member
Fact is, with the plethora of CCW permits out there, one can only assume that they are in your immediate vacinity, wherever you are.
This is actually a good thing. I'd rather be around a bunch of armed law abiding citizens than unarmed law abiding citizens, because it only takes one criminal to be armed and chose to commit a crime and NONE of tha law abiding citizens would be prepared to help.
Now let me clarify, when I say armed criminal, I do not limit that to a gun wielding maniac. But rather, any criminal wielding ANY weapon, including fists, elbows, feet and knees. Not to mention any tool including a car (yes a car can be a weapon) and even to include something as innocuous as a pencil (a well placed stab to the neck with a pencil is very likely to produce fatal trauma).
My only trepidation to this phenomena is does the seemingly well intentioned law abiding citizen have the skill set to determine when it's appropriate to activate their intervention, to know and do what is appropriate for the situation, and if a discharge is imminate, will he/she be cognizant of the potential harm to others in the direction of the discharge.
I posses a federal carry concealed license, though I chose to carry open, everywhere except my church. I only carry concealed there out of respect of my priests request. I know of one priest who carries concealed while performing mass and he welcomes all to carry also.
dirtboy
Well-Known Member
Just a thought...but if Brian and his crew went to someone's pits to fight and say there's 6 of Brian's crew and only two of they other guys...it might just be Mob Action against Brian and his crew and self-defense could prevail here! Hard to say what really happened and ain't none of use know on here cause we're all going off 2nd party news! Just hope Brian makes a full and safe recovery!
It is a very scary world we live in. Like you said above, I hope everyone with a weapon has the skill set and training to use or not use that weapon.
theplummer
Member
I believe that is the ultimate goal behind the whole concept of CCW laws, but remember ANYONE (accept a convicted felon) has the right to carry out in the open as I do, without any training whatsoever. You have to have more gun safety to obtain a hunting license than to bare arms in the general public.
The liability ultimately falls on the individual to act properly. So yes it is a scary world we live in, but no more or less scary than any other time in our history.
Remember it's not the weapon that kills, but the one wielding it.
I won't comment on who's right or wrong in the above incident, because I don't know the facts, other than to say I hope for two things. 1. That a 100 % recovery is achieved. 2. That a group of peers justly rules on the incident and a proper ruling is obtained.
Sorry but there is no such thing as a "Federal Concealed Carry Permit" and municipalities may limit open carry in their jurisdiction
Google it ....
From Brian's wife sandy.......
Awesome news!!!! Brian got to come home from hospital today....he will be doing out patient therapy..we have a ways yet until he is recovered but everything so far is looking good...we would like to thank everyone for all the prayers,texts,calls,and all of you that came to visit him..we are so blessed to have each and everyone of you in our lives...again thank you and God bless all of you..
Awesome news!!!! Brian got to come home from hospital today....he will be doing out patient therapy..we have a ways yet until he is recovered but everything so far is looking good...we would like to thank everyone for all the prayers,texts,calls,and all of you that came to visit him..we are so blessed to have each and everyone of you in our lives...again thank you and God bless all of you..
theplummer
Member
Pursuant to RSMo 650.030 & U.S. 926 C of the Law Enforcement Safety Act of 2004.
Google it
There is some complete idiots on this board.. You take an opportunity to railroad a very scary situation with a human being to discuss your differences about gun laws... Give me a *****ing break.. Get over your ****ing selves... Go start your own thread and stay off this one
theplummer
Member
You just never know where a conversation will go, do you. Eventually, hitler will be mentioned, haha.
The reality is, I for one have much compassion for the incident. And if I were there, I for one may have been Able to avert the entire incident. Now I'm not professing to be some hero or something, anyone could have stepped in that was properly prepared and the whole turn of events may never have happened.
Btw, speaking of railroad, the mainstream media as well as the POTUS would have NO PROBLEM railroading this incident for their gains, so get over yourself, sir.
Darkstar44
Active Member
Amen. Big Swigg, Amen!
BWT, Another reason the tracks need to take action. Can you say "lawsuit". Any lawyer worth salt will be all over the track for not providing adequate security. I assume the track has insurance for this sort of thing but may not after this. Try running a race track without insurance.
Brian
BWT, Another reason the tracks need to take action. Can you say "lawsuit". Any lawyer worth salt will be all over the track for not providing adequate security. I assume the track has insurance for this sort of thing but may not after this. Try running a race track without insurance.
Brian
dirt hound
Registered User
well the track sould have some responibliity shouldn't they alot of track have sheriffs or state as security
theplummer
Member
BINGO!! YATZEE!! You win the prize for stating the most obvious thing that liberal ideologists don't get and never will. It's all about personal accountability.
Lib's believe that it's always someone else's responsibility to protect and save us from ourselves. What utter nonsense.
BTW, I see all of my posts have been deemed "dumb" simply for having a view that differs from a certain liberal ideologist. This smacks of the ideology that espouses freedom, as long as it's "his" idea of what freedom is.
It has nothing to do with what you're saying and everything to do with respect.. People will open this thread to check on Brian not listen to your opinions on gun control and everything else.. Has nothing to do with anyone being liberal.. It's called respect.. Try it sometime.. Go start your own thread somewhere else with your opinions.. Very dangerous situation here and this thread was started for Brian shaw not gun control and politics..
t.nie
Patience Tester
Think of what this situation could have turned into had anyone been armed and decided to exercise their "constitutional rights". Instead of someone being injured, someone else could have been killed. A bystander, a participant, a kid walking past to get an autograph from his favorite racer.
Any law enforcement person will tell you that the moment they show up, the risk of armed violence goes up considerably because they always bring a gun to any situation they attend. Now we have that same level of escalation of force any time someone with a CCW is in the vicinity.
I trust most people who own guns and are CCW advocates. I do not feel afraid of most of the people I know who are in that category. I think they would use common sense in exercising their constitutional right.
It's the few I don't trust that scare me. And I am not sure we need to be giving that right to carry concealed to every person who wants it. I generally look at it from the point of view of whatever right we give to everyone, we are giving to the craziest, most out of control person we know too.
Are you comfortable with every person you can think of having a concealed gun? I'm not.
I hope this person gets better and gets back to racing. But I do think this thread and what happened is a good opportunity to talk about how it could have been worse had guns come into play, because this is the kind of situation where someone with a gun may have decided to act with it for all the right reasons, and the consequences be far worse.
Any law enforcement person will tell you that the moment they show up, the risk of armed violence goes up considerably because they always bring a gun to any situation they attend. Now we have that same level of escalation of force any time someone with a CCW is in the vicinity.
I trust most people who own guns and are CCW advocates. I do not feel afraid of most of the people I know who are in that category. I think they would use common sense in exercising their constitutional right.
It's the few I don't trust that scare me. And I am not sure we need to be giving that right to carry concealed to every person who wants it. I generally look at it from the point of view of whatever right we give to everyone, we are giving to the craziest, most out of control person we know too.
Are you comfortable with every person you can think of having a concealed gun? I'm not.
I hope this person gets better and gets back to racing. But I do think this thread and what happened is a good opportunity to talk about how it could have been worse had guns come into play, because this is the kind of situation where someone with a gun may have decided to act with it for all the right reasons, and the consequences be far worse.
theplummer
Member
Ok, why do you only put guns in this catagory? Aren't knives just as deadly? What about jack handles? Where do you stop with this logic?
A gun is merely a tool, just as a knife or jack handle. They are just as deadly, and this incident proves my point. I'll make NO judgement as to whether or not the use of such a tool was appropriate or not, as I was not there and have no knowledge of the facts of the incident. Are we so immature as a society that we should have all potential tools removed from our disposal, like you would a toddler? If so, how would you ever cut up your steak?, or jack up your car?, or protect yourself from a violent attack from multiple assailants? Should it be the responsibility of the state or the track to have a authority posted at every pit, such as day care and schools must provide for the little children?, or do we as a society expect agency and accountability from adults?, and hold offenders of that accountability responsible for their behavior?
Fact: more people are killed by knife and blunt objects (by a large percentage more, mind you) than are ever killed with a gun.
Stop being a sheeple and listening to the mainstream media bias and anti gun nuts and look at the facts, use logic and reason, instead of a false ideology to model your beliefs and opinions.
Again, for the record, I hope the injured party has a full recovery and that proper justice be served, I'll leave that up to the prosecutors and court to make that determination.
t.nie
Patience Tester
A gun has no other purpose except to be used as a weapon to kill. Read up on the history of the gun, the first documented "gun" was powder in a barrel to fire projectiles at the enemy to kill them. It was made in China. The gun was invented to kill people, end of story, and that is what is intended to do today as well. Sure, we hunt with them, but that's just killing animals of a different kind. The origins of the gun is a weapon to kill people. Can you say the same for a knife, or a jack handle?
A knife or other item "used as a weapon" does not have the potential to kill an innocent bystander 100 feet away. A knife or a jack handle even in the most lethal of hands cannot kill, maim or injure 30 people in a minute. Certain guns available in our society can.
I am not a "sheeple" as you put it. If you want to have this debate and think of me that way, then move on and speak to someone else. I think that term is more appropriate to you, as you use all the arguments pushed by the gun advocacy groups, and they are not good arguments. I can think of better arguments than they put out there on why people should be allowed to concealed carry.
1-There is no evidence to indicate that allowing people to carry concealed creates a more dangerous society.
2-People who get the CCW permit have to be vetted and trained to do so, which means they are deemed responsible to do so.
3-Private businesses maintain the right to ban guns from their premises, thereby allowing individual choice based on their preferences.
I could go on and on as to why people should be allowed CCW and to own guns. I have no problem with the majority of CCW holders and gun owners.
But you never did answer this question--Can you honestly say that every single person you personally know is responsible enough, emotionally stable enough, has enough common sense to carry a gun at all times?
You don't know one person who drinks and gets stupid, or maybe isn't the most stable of people, or has a very violent temper that they can't control all the time?
Remember, any right you demand for yourself as a citizen, you give to every Tom, Dick and Harry you have ever seen in our country. And that is what makes the CCW stuff kind of scary to me.
A knife or other item "used as a weapon" does not have the potential to kill an innocent bystander 100 feet away. A knife or a jack handle even in the most lethal of hands cannot kill, maim or injure 30 people in a minute. Certain guns available in our society can.
I am not a "sheeple" as you put it. If you want to have this debate and think of me that way, then move on and speak to someone else. I think that term is more appropriate to you, as you use all the arguments pushed by the gun advocacy groups, and they are not good arguments. I can think of better arguments than they put out there on why people should be allowed to concealed carry.
1-There is no evidence to indicate that allowing people to carry concealed creates a more dangerous society.
2-People who get the CCW permit have to be vetted and trained to do so, which means they are deemed responsible to do so.
3-Private businesses maintain the right to ban guns from their premises, thereby allowing individual choice based on their preferences.
I could go on and on as to why people should be allowed CCW and to own guns. I have no problem with the majority of CCW holders and gun owners.
But you never did answer this question--Can you honestly say that every single person you personally know is responsible enough, emotionally stable enough, has enough common sense to carry a gun at all times?
You don't know one person who drinks and gets stupid, or maybe isn't the most stable of people, or has a very violent temper that they can't control all the time?
Remember, any right you demand for yourself as a citizen, you give to every Tom, Dick and Harry you have ever seen in our country. And that is what makes the CCW stuff kind of scary to me.
Lizardracing
race it, don't rice it!
The debate is about removing the right of someone else regardless of what you believe is fact or logic. Both sides of this debate are logical and have merit except for the removing of another persons privileges and rights as way to control a situatiojn. I don't want anyone saying I can or cannot. Some situations warrant the added responsibility of ensuring your defense choice stays in your control and some situations warrant no defense choice needed at all. I prefer to make that decision myself rather than rely on someone else to make blanket policies that won't properly apply to every situation.
