Explanation to my decision! Like it or Not! Congrats Ryan!

Intake said:
I do, this was the first one this year as far as I know

That's supposed to be your job LOL!
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Jim, he doesn't tech any of his races. He said that himself.
Dean, you didn't even know what the weights were supposed to be at Pevely earlier this year.

Do you all see a theme? Highland doesn't tech and they have low car counts, Extreme series doesn't tech and they have very low car count/memberships.

Where are these new rules posted Dean? How come you and the illegal car are the only ones who know about this new rule. Not even the tech guy.
 
don hoener said:
2010 Summer Nationals rules!
SPORTSMAN / RULES
1. ANY 100% A.A.R.A. LEGAL CAR 318 & UNDER cubic inch WITH OEM OR AFTERMARKET HEADS MUST WEIGH 2700 lbs. MINIMUM WITH DRIVER AT ALL TIMES!
1A. ANY 100% A.A.R.A. LEGAL CAR 360 CUBIC INCH or less as manufactured, GM-FORD-CHRYSLER WITH OEM OR AFTERMARKET HEADS & APPROVED INTAKES MUST WEIGH 2900 lbs. MINIMUM WITH DRIVER AT ALL TIMES! 2. ANY CARS EQUIPPED WITH 360 CUBIC INCH or less as manufactured with OPEN INTAKE MUST WEIGH 3000 lbs MINIMUM WITH DRIVER AT ALL TIMES! 602 CRATE MOTOR w/ 4bbl Carb MUST WEIGH 3000 lbs.
3. ANY CARS EQUIPPED WITH 361 CUBIC INCH & OVER MUST WEIGH 3150 1bs MINIMUM WITH DRIVER AT ALL TIMES!
4. ANY CARS EQUIPPED WITH SPRING PULL BARS, OR DOME PISTONS MUST ADD 50 LBS TO BASE WEIGHT!
THESE BELOW APPLY TO ALL SPORTSMAN CARS
5. STOCK HOLLY 2-BBL CARBURATOR #4412-500 CFM REQUIRED! ONLY MODIFICATION ALLOWED IS REMOVAL OF CHOKE AND AIRHORN! Fuel type - gas only! NO Roller Cams – Flat Tappet ONLY!
6. MAXIMUM 400 CUBIC INCH STEEL BLOCK / STEEL HEADS ONLY
7. NO BERT, BRINN OR ANY OTHER INTERNAL CLUTCH TRANSMISSIONS ALLOWED! MUST USE O.E.M. TRANSMISSIONS ONLY! SCATTERSHIELD OR BLANKET REQUIRED! ALL GEARS IN TRANSMISSION MUST WORK! AUTOMATICS MUST HAVE A WORKING CONVERTER! TRIPLE DISC CLUTCH MINIMUM 7 ¼” ALLOWED.
8. FULL FRAMED CHASSIS REQUIRED NO TUBE-FRAMES! MINIMUM 108” WHEELBASE!
9. NO ALUMINIUM SUSPENSION AND / OR DRIVELINE COMPONENTS!
10. NO COIL-OVER SPRINGS OR COIL-OVER ELIMINATORS! NO BIRDCAGES ALLOWED! A.A.R.A. rear suspension rules apply! Springs must be in stock location. If not subject to additional weight penalty!11. MAXIMUM TIRES ALLOWED, HOOSIER E-MOD, MOUNTED ON 8” STEEL WHEEL! HOOSIER E-MODS REQUIRED ON BOTH REAR (D-40, A-40,OR H-40 ) NO TIRE TREATMENTS ALLOWED! SAMPLES MAY BE TAKEN FOR TESTING!
12. ENGINE LOCATION FOREMOST SPARKPLUG MUST BE ALIGNED or in FRONT of CENTER of UPPER BALL JOINT 13. ALL CARS MUST MEET COMMON SENSE SAFETY RULES!
14. ALL CARS ARE SUBJECT TO INSPECTION AND ADDITIONAL WEIGHT ADJUSTMENT![/COLOR]15. STUB CAR / PONY CARS MUST HAVE STACKED REAR LEAF SPRING SUSPENSION ONLY! NO BIRDCAGES ALLOWED!
16. NO DRY SUMP SYSTEMS ALLOWED!
17. MAXIMUM 8” HIGH SPOILER ALL PURSE MONEY IS GUARANTEED
18. NO TRACTION CONTROL DEVICES ALLOWED! HEATS BY PILL
19. HEATS BY PILL DRAW! PROGRESSIVE RACING!
20. WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO ADD PROMOTERS CHOICES! PURESTOCK/STREETSTOCK RULES
I. MUST COMPLY WITH A.A.R.A.RULES !
2. ADDED WEIGHT MUST BE SECURELY ATTACHED!
3. A.A.R.A. Hydraulic Only CAM RULE WILL APPLY!
4. E-MOD TIRES OPTIONAL A-40 & H-40 ONLY PRO 4 STOCK / HORNETS RULES
1. 4- CYLINDER STOCK CARS OR TRUCKS SINGLE OR TWIN CAM
2. ALL CARS SUBJECT TO SAFETY INSPECTION!
3. NO ROTARY ENGINES ALLOWED!
4. STREET TIRES ONLY! NO WEIGHT JACKS

The way these rules were written anyone could have run swedge tubes and heims. They should have had to add weight!
Click to expand...

If you are going to justify it with rule 14 then you can pretty much run anything you want on a sportsman (or any car you want to show up with) and you just have to add weight.

As far as rule 10, what does AARA rear suspension rules apply mean? Do we really need to keep reposting the same rule that says stock lower trailing arms?
 
So, if you chase off all of the aara sportsman's, you don't lose anything? Pretty sure out of the whopping 24 cars there last night, 18 were weekly aara drivers. No one is denying Ryan didn't deserve the win. He more than deserved it. All of the Eilers boys have talent. Rules are rules though and should be enforced at all times. The back of the flyer for this event clearly sad what was allowed and what wasn't. No excuses..
 
tomsgrl128 said:
So, if you chase off all of the aara sportsman's, you don't lose anything? Pretty sure out of the whopping 24 cars there last night, 18 were weekly aara drivers. No one is denying Ryan didn't deserve the win. He more than deserved it. All of the Eilers boys have talent. Rules are rules though and should be enforced at all times. The back of the flyer for this event clearly sad what was allowed and what wasn't. No excuses..
Click to expand...
I don't lose because I don't get paid anything, never have, never asked for anything The last 2 years we built all the rollover cars for the fair race didn't have to, no one else steped up, never recieved a dime. Most of the hard charger awards were from my sponsors or out of my pocket. The Series contribution to the sportsman drivers in the last 3 years will be around 30k Thats 30 Thousand Dollars. Like I said swedge tubes have been allowed for the last 2 years There were alot of things I want to do but just couldn't get them done for whatever reason. There are no winners in this and the only thing I will lose is the headaches.
 
Dave 34 ... Jim, the tech guy, does tech. I have the paper to prove it, when he teched our car and 3 things were found that needed to be fixed. He wrote them down and gave us a COPY, so there was a record. The next week when we returned he came to our car to make sure they were fixed correctly!

The only thing that disturbs me in all this, is Don Hoener not backing up his tech man and another board member. They clearly made a decision and he over ruled them. Way to back up your officials, Don.
Plus, it clearly states an added weight penalty applies here, so did he make the correct weight limit? NO He couldn't have, because they didn't properly tech the car before the race, so the problem wasn't found until after he raced. So he couldn't have made correct weight limit, because the added weight rule applied here.
 
sounds to me he should step down as director,basically hes saying and doing well do it my way,what ever i want,not what the rules state.
 
don hoener said:
2010 Summer Nationals rules!
SPORTSMAN / RULES
1. ANY 100% A.A.R.A. LEGAL CAR 318 & UNDER cubic inch WITH OEM OR AFTERMARKET HEADS MUST WEIGH 2700 lbs. MINIMUM WITH DRIVER AT ALL TIMES!
1A. ANY 100% A.A.R.A. LEGAL CAR 360 CUBIC INCH or less as manufactured, GM-FORD-CHRYSLER WITH OEM OR AFTERMARKET HEADS & APPROVED INTAKES MUST WEIGH 2900 lbs. MINIMUM WITH DRIVER AT ALL TIMES! 2. ANY CARS EQUIPPED WITH 360 CUBIC INCH or less as manufactured with OPEN INTAKE MUST WEIGH 3000 lbs MINIMUM WITH DRIVER AT ALL TIMES! 602 CRATE MOTOR w/ 4bbl Carb MUST WEIGH 3000 lbs.
3. ANY CARS EQUIPPED WITH 361 CUBIC INCH & OVER MUST WEIGH 3150 1bs MINIMUM WITH DRIVER AT ALL TIMES!
4. ANY CARS EQUIPPED WITH SPRING PULL BARS, OR DOME PISTONS MUST ADD 50 LBS TO BASE WEIGHT!
THESE BELOW APPLY TO ALL SPORTSMAN CARS
5. STOCK HOLLY 2-BBL CARBURATOR #4412-500 CFM REQUIRED! ONLY MODIFICATION ALLOWED IS REMOVAL OF CHOKE AND AIRHORN! Fuel type - gas only! NO Roller Cams – Flat Tappet ONLY!
6. MAXIMUM 400 CUBIC INCH STEEL BLOCK / STEEL HEADS ONLY
7. NO BERT, BRINN OR ANY OTHER INTERNAL CLUTCH TRANSMISSIONS ALLOWED! MUST USE O.E.M. TRANSMISSIONS ONLY! SCATTERSHIELD OR BLANKET REQUIRED! ALL GEARS IN TRANSMISSION MUST WORK! AUTOMATICS MUST HAVE A WORKING CONVERTER! TRIPLE DISC CLUTCH MINIMUM 7 ¼” ALLOWED.
8. FULL FRAMED CHASSIS REQUIRED NO TUBE-FRAMES! MINIMUM 108” WHEELBASE!
9. NO ALUMINIUM SUSPENSION AND / OR DRIVELINE COMPONENTS!
10. NO COIL-OVER SPRINGS OR COIL-OVER ELIMINATORS! NO BIRDCAGES ALLOWED! A.A.R.A. rear suspension rules apply! Springs must be in stock location. If not subject to additional weight penalty!11. MAXIMUM TIRES ALLOWED, HOOSIER E-MOD, MOUNTED ON 8” STEEL WHEEL! HOOSIER E-MODS REQUIRED ON BOTH REAR (D-40, A-40,OR H-40 ) NO TIRE TREATMENTS ALLOWED! SAMPLES MAY BE TAKEN FOR TESTING!
12. ENGINE LOCATION FOREMOST SPARKPLUG MUST BE ALIGNED or in FRONT of CENTER of UPPER BALL JOINT 13. ALL CARS MUST MEET COMMON SENSE SAFETY RULES!
14. ALL CARS ARE SUBJECT TO INSPECTION AND ADDITIONAL WEIGHT ADJUSTMENT![/COLOR]15. STUB CAR / PONY CARS MUST HAVE STACKED REAR LEAF SPRING SUSPENSION ONLY! NO BIRDCAGES ALLOWED!
16. NO DRY SUMP SYSTEMS ALLOWED!
17. MAXIMUM 8” HIGH SPOILER ALL PURSE MONEY IS GUARANTEED
18. NO TRACTION CONTROL DEVICES ALLOWED! HEATS BY PILL
19. HEATS BY PILL DRAW! PROGRESSIVE RACING!
20. WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO ADD PROMOTERS CHOICES! PURESTOCK/STREETSTOCK RULES
I. MUST COMPLY WITH A.A.R.A.RULES !
2. ADDED WEIGHT MUST BE SECURELY ATTACHED!
3. A.A.R.A. Hydraulic Only CAM RULE WILL APPLY!
4. E-MOD TIRES OPTIONAL A-40 & H-40 ONLY PRO 4 STOCK / HORNETS RULES
1. 4- CYLINDER STOCK CARS OR TRUCKS SINGLE OR TWIN CAM
2. ALL CARS SUBJECT TO SAFETY INSPECTION!
3. NO ROTARY ENGINES ALLOWED!
4. STREET TIRES ONLY! NO WEIGHT JACKS

The way these rules were written anyone could have run swedge tubes and heims. They should have had to add weight!
Click to expand...

Should have to add weight correct! Did NOT add weight= ILLEGAL!!!! Red and white coppied out of your own post.
 
I think what will happen is the tracks will end up doing away with this class. mods or crates will/ are going to be their option .this will end all the bull@#@#@# with 7 different sets of rules! Less headache and wont have all this crap going on everywhere.
 
bbigcat75 said:
I think what will happen is the tracks will end up doing away with this class. mods or crates will/ are going to be their option .this will end all the bull@#@#@# with 7 different sets of rules! Less headache and wont have all this crap going on everywhere.
Click to expand...

Or Don could have just followed the rules that he handed out to everyone and there would not have been a problem. If he would have called him illegal, like he should have, there still would have been complaining, but the "explanation" would have been simple you broke a rule that was clearly stated. They can play the ignorance card and say they didn't know any better, but that doesn't justify anything. Illegal is illegal. The precedent that has now been set is, well nobody told me before the race so I can't be illegal after the race.

Don, can you post the "new" fall national rules for everyone so everyone knows what they are? Can you also post whatever you plan on changing between now and the end of the next race or what you plan on enforcing or not enforcing? You should probably add the provision about if it's not a performance advantage then anything can be changed.
 
UMP are really the ones to blame here. How can you have a UMP class for 3 years and not have a set of rules that applies to everyone that runs in that class. Nothing like trying to run against someone in a national points race that has a totally different car than you. How much of a disadvantage is it at Pevely for the Round-up when some guys have to change their cars because they have to fit into rules that they didn't have to any other time during the year. Come on UMP step up and give the UMP sportsman class a set of rules so we don't have all this confrontation.
 
Momma Drew said:
Dave 34 ... Jim, the tech guy, does tech. I have the paper to prove it, when he teched our car and 3 things were found that needed to be fixed. He wrote them down and gave us a COPY, so there was a record. The next week when we returned he came to our car to make sure they were fixed correctly!
Click to expand...

You misunderstood me. Dean doesn't tech anything, he admitted that. Jim does tech, however, i kind of see Jim as a boxer going into the ring with his hands tied. They make a ton of rules but then don't enforce the majority of the rules and then when someone is caught with illegal parts, they allow them anyways.

Just to make it clear, I respect what Jim does. I just think there are others in Allied or the tracks themselves that keep all the rules from being enoforced.
 
understand this,,,i have been racing sportsman since they were called "hobby cars",way before most of you were born,(lets face it,we are running a limited late model now),won 20 or so features along the way so i figure i can comment on this issue,,,instead of getting on this site and ragging about what some feel is a questionable dession we should be darn greatfull that we have several places to run a class that has been given "THE LAST RIGHTS" more than once...you think jim dont tec the cars,well he dose,made me change my intake and now i cant bring the 1 car back on a regular night unless i modify the car radically,but then thats my problem..i enjoy running the 1 car way more than my 25 lm,there again thats my problem...back on issue,,whenever you have a special event,race what ever,,there has to be some flexability and if some of you can get your heads out-a your b-atchin mode and realise this was the case,allied,D.H. and all that raced tuesday would be better off if this issue would just go away.,,now that the dust has been stired up i will bet money that mr. jim will look at your stuff with a fine tooth comb,,,now then.what allied needs to do is call a special meeting and make the swedge tube legal,,fact is ,if you make them your self they are cheaper than trying to install mono balls in a stock arm,,this would be an advancment and for most a cost saving..so from the back of the pack thats all i got 2 say...lenny garson
 
Here are the rules. Now tonight were going to allow the rules to be changed. Now next week guys dont use the rules from the last race but go refer back to the ones before that? Let Jim do his job and when he says its illegal dont override his decision. Pretty simple.
 
Don, and Dean......You both are totally missing the whole idea here. Its not that this part made Ryan win the race. Because it didnt. He would have won regardless. In fact i was glad to see him win the race. This is all about rules and not enforcing them. This wasnt a gray area either. When it states in black and white there is absolutely no gray area what so ever.

I think it was 2 years ago at the rules meeting many drivers we asking about allowing these and you guys were so dead set against it. The rules meeting is a waste of time anyways. You guys dont listen and when the drivers ask for a explanation the answer we get is " because we said so". Thats real nice let me tell ya. Kinda seems like you guys think we are grade school kids by telling us that. Give us a logical reasoning behind the decision. The drivers should have just as much input as anyone else but it is hardly ever taken into consideration.

The trailing arm issue in my eyes isnt a big performance advantage. It may be a advantage in some little way or another but not the difference between winning and losing. So making someone add weight for them is stupid in my eyes. If you told me to add 50 lbs to my car bc of it i would tell ya your crazy and probably wouldnt do it. You guys have some good rules and yet some really stupid ones. If AARA would have just allowed these trailing arms 2 years ago then we wouldnt be going though this. Dont be saying it is to keep it affordable either because thats BS. You should know that these parts are getting harder to find these days so sometimes when that happens you have to go a different route. Say you go to the junk yard and get a stock set of trailing arms and them you get monoballs which are legal you are looking at about $200.00 for a set of trailing arms with the monoballs. Now a swedge tube is about $12.00 a tube and $15.00 a heim. So your taking roughly $84.00 for a set of swedge tube lowers. A savings of a little over $100.00!!! So what makes logical sense here? But you guys chose to keep the STOCK lower trailing arms as our rule. So that is the AARA rule on them. But now you go and break that rule? So what is the damn point of the rules then if you arent going to follow them?

it isnt the tech guys fault that they werent found before the races. He was simply asking what you were claiming for weight and said ok thank and there will be tech at the end of the night. It is the drivers responsibility to know what the rules are before the race. The rules can be found easily. If you were to walk around to all the allied cars there Tuesday how many do you think had the trailing arms? I would beat ya no one had them? And how come? Because it is the rules!!!!!!!!!!! I could give a crap less if highland runs them or if extreme runs them. Big whoop! But if you are going to have a show with AARA rules then adbide by them!!! This is supposed to be common sense. But instead of abiding by them you make our tech guy look like a *** and overturn him. He did his job that he is asked to do and gets crapped on.

You all just hardly ever actually listen to the racers. Back to the rules meeting last year. I asked as well as many other why the pure stocks have to keep the rear frame rails in. And once again the answer to that was because we said so. Surprise surprise!!!! Ya guys said we dont have to build the cage to them but they have to be there. Once again another stupid rule. Do guys that come from tri city or highland that dont have them get told they cant run? Nope!! So why should it even be in there.

This is one of my last straws being drawn with Allied. Many dislike AARA already. Ive never had many complaints till the past couple years. Guess i finally opened my eyes more. You can yell or complain to everyone on here defending your decision but its not going to help. It was really shady what you did to Jim the other night and thats not right. I will finish out the year with driving Brians car at belleville but i am gunna have to think long and hard about returning next year with my own car! I know i am not the only one that feels like this too. Heck the car count this year reflects that also! Its ashame too bc i really enjoy racing at belleville. But i am not going to support AARA when they pull stuff like this. I know it isnt all of AARA either but what one or 2 people do reflects on the whole organization. I dont pull in many fans but i do bring in enough help and family with me on race nights. Probably $200 a night atleast just for me and my family ( and no i dont pay all that). But if someone is taking $200 from me i would miss it. So watch how many people you piss off because that $200 can add up to alot more if others follow what i may do and not return in 2011.

RULES, RULES, RULES, RULES!!!!!!!!! FOLLOW THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Fireball, its not b-atchin if the rules are completely plain as day but not enforced. I don't care how many years you raced or what it used to be like or how many times you won. The part was illegal but the rule was changed for one night.

I like this comment of yours...."what allied needs to do is call a special meeting and make the swedge tube legal". You state right here that the parts are illegal. Why should they turn their head the other way?

You are dead on when it comes to swedge tubes being cheaper and a better solution. But thats not what the rules allow. And there can be a definite advantage to being able to adjust the way the rear end sits in the car. Not saying it was the difference in the win but lets say a guy shows up and wins by half a lap but has a 40 lb crank. Who is to say that 40 lb crank was enough of an advantage to win or dominate the race. No one knows for sure and it can't be proven. The fact is, the crank is illegal therefore the car is illegal. Doesn't matter how much the part might have helped or not.
 
Has the horse been beat enough yet ???? LOL !!!! And always remember the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence ! At least you get paid what you are told - and the AARA checks do not bounce and there is not anything or anyone in the world that is perfect ! I am not commenting on the call ! Just the beating ! He made the statement to call him he left a number ! Have any of you guys commenting ever cheated ? Weather it was on a car or the organization or you taxes LOL ? Cheating as some put it is cheating ! Correct ! It would be hard to find a car out there that is 100 percent legal ! J/M/O
And for the record I am not standing up for Don or AARA ! I have learned along time ago that the best way to get my point across to these guys is a one on one ! Sometimes it is easier to be heard !
 
here is the deal a desision was made,like it or not,it is SET IN STONE...and like i said THIS WAS NOT A NORMAL RACE NIGHT,,if it was the desision would have been different,we all know that...we all can get on here and rant till we are blue in the face,NOTHING WILL CHANGE,,now then,if the majority think that swedged arms are a advancement and cost effective then you guys need to get a civilly worded pettion,4 swedged trailing arms,that the majority of sportsman drivers/owners sign and present it to any allied offical,,that should get the wheels in motion...the sportsman class needs a better set of guidelines to follow,,nationally with some flexability left to the tracks...
 
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