mudface
Active Member
Ah I see ya I can see where a 10 to 13 grand mullens sportsman engine would make things more affordable.............shakes head
Idea for local classes
- Thread starter faustfan2
- Start date
Ah I see ya I can see where a 10 to 13 grand mullens sportsman engine would make things more affordable.............shakes head
mkoch96
Active Member
I agree that some of the rules packages have gotten way out of hand and a lot of people are spending way more than they should be to race at local tracks on regular nights. But coming up with some off-the-wall classes that are only run at a handful of tracks isn't the answer either. A modified is the most common race car in the free world and is run at almost every track around. Yes, there are the $30,000, 800hp engines out there, but they already have a built in restrictor, the tires. How much of that motor are they actually using. Let that guy spend all of his money and then beat his head against the wall searching for traction.
Using myself as an example, my big motor (600 HP at best) broke last week. This weekend I ran my 602 crate motor and wound up with roughly the same results as I did with my big motor. And the dang thing was a whole lot easier to drive. Tyler Deibert won with a motor that I'm sure is way less expensive than some of the guys finishing behind him. I'm just saying that there is no sense in pigeon-holing guys into running only one or two tracks when it isn't going to make a difference anyway.
The point is moot anyways, because it doesn't matter one tiny little bit what rules you come up with, nothing is going to change until the tracks and promoters are willing to really tech cars and actually punish the cheaters. That is what is going to kill the restricted classes. By restricting every class, you are only going to make the problem worse.
That said, I'll never understand when people complain about the cost of a super late model or a UMP modified. It's pretty clear what is allowed and what is out there. If you want to win races in the premier class at whatever track that you run at, you had better be prepared to spend premier money. Maybe one day UNICEF will get into the racing business, but until then........
Using myself as an example, my big motor (600 HP at best) broke last week. This weekend I ran my 602 crate motor and wound up with roughly the same results as I did with my big motor. And the dang thing was a whole lot easier to drive. Tyler Deibert won with a motor that I'm sure is way less expensive than some of the guys finishing behind him. I'm just saying that there is no sense in pigeon-holing guys into running only one or two tracks when it isn't going to make a difference anyway.
The point is moot anyways, because it doesn't matter one tiny little bit what rules you come up with, nothing is going to change until the tracks and promoters are willing to really tech cars and actually punish the cheaters. That is what is going to kill the restricted classes. By restricting every class, you are only going to make the problem worse.
That said, I'll never understand when people complain about the cost of a super late model or a UMP modified. It's pretty clear what is allowed and what is out there. If you want to win races in the premier class at whatever track that you run at, you had better be prepared to spend premier money. Maybe one day UNICEF will get into the racing business, but until then........
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JD12
C.E.O Davinroy Motorsport
If it fits the rules it would not be a 12-13 grand sportsman motorAh I see ya I can see where a 10 to 13 grand mullens sportsman engine would make things more affordable.............shakes head
I agree the fans want to see the supers. We're not to far away from only having two tracks in IL that will run them weekly. Tri City and Fairbury.
Farmer City, LaSalle, and Kankakee are currently running supers weekly but the car counts are not good. 7 or so years ago Farmer would get 30-35 supers for a regular show. Their $1500 to win fair race only drew 15. LaSalle's car count is way down as well. Rumors are flying that the supers are on the way out to make room for crates there. And Kankakee? Well the SLM class is on life support there. They typically get 7 SLM. They usually add 5 or 6 crates to the SLM feature.
I applaud the folks at Jacksonville for looking at alternatives to the status quo.
havoline28
Active Member
Oh I see my bad.
mudface
Active Member
Rip is just bad fast, very smooth and has a good head on his shoulders...always enjoy watching him race at pevely and hope he continues
You're wrong. Call Chad and talk to him.
And if you say the extra dollars are for Chad's labor then I'll challenge you to show me a motor that is as competitive an doesn't have any issues.
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racin90
Well-Known Member
Thats the problem. You cannot start combining classes or changing the rules. You do and UMP is no longer your santioning body. They put money in the sports and tracks around here run their rules. I hate it but thats the way it is. For now id like to see the street stocks and sportsman get combined but you cannot do that. You cannot change UMP's rules. UMP should have years ago done something with the class to make it merge but too many people argued and whined about it so UMP dropped it and now the sportsman's have 1 less track to run now. The cars are so close that its not even funny but you cannot tweak the rules unless you tell UMP to go byebye. If i had my own track id probably ruffle ALOT of feathers and i might go broke doing so. But id also make a huge statement in the way things need to be dealt with or this sport will not grow in the future. There are cars and drivers sitting waiting for things to change but down right its just crazy and too expensive for most anymore. Racers got tired of pouring money in their cars to be outdollared by the bigger teams. Thats why you barely have a full field of late models. It costs money to run them. Morwe
I like this post. Some of the reasons i see why people spend stupid amounts of money on motors is just because they heard the other guy did. Kreke is right on as well........UMP is the one that has let it get to this point and with the economy still in the crapper its not going to get any better. Late models are barely making a full field. Modifieds seem to do good.....but they have had alot better car counts in years past. As far as the sportsman engines.....there are still guys spending big dollars for their motors. Not all. but some do and those are not running up front. Its crazy. When i ran the class i personally seen guys spending 10-11000 dollars for motors for 350 to win. Killed the car counts and made some go broke trying to keep up.
jax-webguy
Member
Have to disagree on the UMP thing. We have never had UMP tell us what classes we can and cant run. Look around, there are tracks with classes that don't fall under a specific UMP class. Like I mentioned before, Peoria runs a steel block late model class. Some tracks don't sanction Hornets but run them. Quincy has IMCA for some classes and UMP for others... as does Burlington, Ia and I'm sure many more. When we have a class that fits nicely into something UMP sanctions, we run it under the UMP sanction because we believe that it is beneficial to both the driver and the track to have a class sanctioned whenever possible. If something doesn't fit, we don't have the UMP sanction. We have never had anyone from UMP telling us how to run our race track, nor do I sense they have any desire to tell us how to run it. If we come up with some kind of limited late model class, the drivers can still join and get the benefits of membership, but I doubt I hear a word of complaint about it from UMP.
racin90
Well-Known Member
Im excited your going a route not many want to chose right now and i think it will benefit you alot in the long run. I applaud your decision and wish you the best. Excellent post and good lyck
FIREBALL
Well-Known Member
the 7 sportsman from 2012 ran 3d in points at bvill,ran i55 n tcs also,,its a tony fiel competition motor out of new jersy,a nascar spec motor,just for jollys I called comp and asked what the motor cost (it has a id no..)$6500 tops as all parts are new.between the sportsman and the b mod it has won over 20 races including some features at blvill...still on the same rebuild as it was at the start of the 012 season...check out the b mod race at hiland sat,,nose to tail crate motor 1st,high comp motor 2d and allied motor 3d
faustfan2
Active Member
Those that say a quick change saves you money i think are way off base here. A quick change by the time you buy 5/6 or more sets of gears plus the gear oil to go in them will cost you way more than a 9" floater with 2/3 sets of gears so i dont see how a quick change is going to save money. As someone stated earlier in the thread that Harrisons steel block motor was a copy of Kortes from the previous year...if his motor was a copy of his late model motor the theres my point right there that the motors in the mods could and should be sold to theate model guys and they should be made to run the steel block motors. A Roush/Yates late model motor is $40/$50 grand....you can buy a darn good motor from Mullins for half of that to put in a late model. Its common sense. Make the mods go to a 9" run the same motors that the b-mods are now only with a four barrel carb and combine the two classes. As for UMP.....they are part of the blame as to why this sport is where its at now. When the drivers and promotors can get together and come to a agreement and tell UMP to take a flying you know what on a rolling donut then your right nothings going to be done but with what i see with the car counts now i believe its time to do something quick or this sport wont be around very much longer. UMP has shown there true colors this year. They (UMP) dont give a crap about the drivers or the teacks....all they care about is there pockets and thats it. Drivers its time to stand up and think smarter not harder on this.
dirt hound
Registered User
de ja vu all over again lmao
My whole deal on crate motors, is then it comes down to even more money on parts. Lightwieght everything and the parts cost outrageous. Plus with the crate motors, then it comes to trick headers, time on the dyno to get the most possible out of it. There is a bunch of trick stuff you can do on crate motors to gain that extra 20 to 30 hp which is huge when it comes to that game. We have did the homework on it already if it comes to it and it all falls in the rules perfectly. Then you get to all the low friction everything. I understand the logic with crate engines trying to make it a driving and set-up game, but in the end money wil be spent regardless. Like on my old car, I run all the old iron stuff which is cheap to fix and almost all of it I go to all my old derby buddies to find. Its big and heavy and tough and can take a beating but hardly ever breaks. I want a car that can finish bouncing off the wall rather then touching and snap a spindle. Just my 2 cents.
T.C. Springer
Determined
Faustfan2,
Let's say you need 6 different gears to run a given season.
Brand new a winters quick change is roughly $1750. Each gear set is $60. That's a total of: $2110
For a winter 9", the price is roughly $800. Plus the same 6 gears(I'll price complete 3rd member assemblies because a LOT of racers don't know how to assemble them, and in this case while comparing the 9" to the qc, you don't have to assemble the qc gears!) $3300. Final total: $4100
Gear oil is a wash.. You need it for both. Lol.
Now, with that extra $2k, you could buy even more gears, for more versatility at those race tracks. Changing gears from heat to feature.. Yada yada.
Now you see my point. If you're going to race ONE or two tracks and only have two gears I could understand that, but any racer who wants to race multiple tracks is going to save money and be MUCH happier with a quick change. Have you ever changed a 9" gear? I'd rather change one in a qc. Lol.
Let's say you need 6 different gears to run a given season.
Brand new a winters quick change is roughly $1750. Each gear set is $60. That's a total of: $2110
For a winter 9", the price is roughly $800. Plus the same 6 gears(I'll price complete 3rd member assemblies because a LOT of racers don't know how to assemble them, and in this case while comparing the 9" to the qc, you don't have to assemble the qc gears!) $3300. Final total: $4100
Gear oil is a wash.. You need it for both. Lol.
Now, with that extra $2k, you could buy even more gears, for more versatility at those race tracks. Changing gears from heat to feature.. Yada yada.
Now you see my point. If you're going to race ONE or two tracks and only have two gears I could understand that, but any racer who wants to race multiple tracks is going to save money and be MUCH happier with a quick change. Have you ever changed a 9" gear? I'd rather change one in a qc. Lol.
mkoch96
Active Member
The cost of a 9" vs. Quick Change is THE reason why I have chosen to run as an A-mod instead if a B-mod. I have 20 sets of quick change gears that I bought used for the same as you would spend on 2 sets of used 9" gears. Believe me, I'm not saying that every class should have them, just saying that anyone who says that a 9" is cheaper must not have any experience with it or only wants to run at 1 track. If you only want to run at 1 track, then you could come up with whatever goofy rules packages and classes that you want and then go race against 5 cars every week. And isn't that what we are trying to avoid?
Now to the crate motor deal. The crate motors are a good idea in theorey. The problem is that the right motor needs to be in the right class. If the motor is under-horsepowered for the car, then all of the lightweight, low drag stuff comes into play and the costs skyrocket. I used to be a huge supporter of the crate late model class because it is good in theorey. The problem comes in because a 400 HP engine does not belong in a late model. Maybe the 525 crate would be a better fit for the class. The 604 may work well in a modified, and the 602 would be a good option for a street stock because its basically a street stock engine anyways. Again, I'm not saying that these engines should be mandated, but they should be an option. And the rules should be adjusted to make the playing field level. And they need to be teched, but as we've seen in the recent past, that's probably not going to happen in any class anyway.
Now to the crate motor deal. The crate motors are a good idea in theorey. The problem is that the right motor needs to be in the right class. If the motor is under-horsepowered for the car, then all of the lightweight, low drag stuff comes into play and the costs skyrocket. I used to be a huge supporter of the crate late model class because it is good in theorey. The problem comes in because a 400 HP engine does not belong in a late model. Maybe the 525 crate would be a better fit for the class. The 604 may work well in a modified, and the 602 would be a good option for a street stock because its basically a street stock engine anyways. Again, I'm not saying that these engines should be mandated, but they should be an option. And the rules should be adjusted to make the playing field level. And they need to be teched, but as we've seen in the recent past, that's probably not going to happen in any class anyway.
