cutlass88stl
SLANGN DIRT N ****IN GAS
i will be there in the 88 machine
Montgomert motorsports park attn: Street stock / sportsman racers
- Thread starter Casey Pearson
- Start date
cutlass88stl
SLANGN DIRT N ****IN GAS
keep dirt boy away , that guys a headache lmao
upsidedown
mINNIE
were is dallsa co. can not finnd it on thr track locater?
JoshtheJet90
Active Member
Urbana, mo (an hour north of Springfield)
Wrong. Sportsman cars are far from obsolete.
mopar7x
mopar7x
www.dallascountyspeedway.net its a little flat 1/4 mile track lots of fun and grassroots racing always a good field of pure stocks and a large crowd
theplummer
Member
With regards to "budget Class", this is FAR from a budget class when you start restricting things like cubic inches.
I have a car that was specifically built under the old MCS rules, no cubic inch rule, 500 holley, stock clutch, no aluminum flywheel. I was able to be competitive in the power department on a real budget, because of the cheapest way to build horsepower is through cubic inches. Smaller engines are more expensive to untap that horsepower (think volumetric efficiancy), and the real competitors were the ones with big budgets.
Seems to me like there has already been someone from the "Allied Camp" chiming in, as they have already figured out how to "bend the rules" for horsepower. They have to simply because anytime a "Allied legal" car showed up, they whipped the pants off us with "outlaw cars". Remember, that takes real money to make a smaller package perform.
Your always going to have the few cars out there that have way more budget than sense. So the only way to combat that is with a simple weight rule, in accordance to CC, if you have a way to check it.
Fulton's rules are pretty spot on, and the racing is fast and fairly competitive, and they even allow 4BBl carbs. Remember 4BBL carbs are plentiful and cheap, I have 3 times the amount in a legal 2BBl carb than I do in a 4BBL, and trust me my engine loves it.
I'd suggest watching the cars run for a while, see what trends are happening, and who's winning. Then "confidentially" find out from the drivers what there car has by completing a questionaire. You could base a rules package that would suit most, and bring a very competative class to your track, over time.
By the way, I cannot afford to bring my car there #4, but I'm in negociations with a VERY POPULAR driver that did VERY WELL in the past at MCS, that has won with my car there. If we don't make it this Saturday, expect us the following (if all works out).
I have a car that was specifically built under the old MCS rules, no cubic inch rule, 500 holley, stock clutch, no aluminum flywheel. I was able to be competitive in the power department on a real budget, because of the cheapest way to build horsepower is through cubic inches. Smaller engines are more expensive to untap that horsepower (think volumetric efficiancy), and the real competitors were the ones with big budgets.
Seems to me like there has already been someone from the "Allied Camp" chiming in, as they have already figured out how to "bend the rules" for horsepower. They have to simply because anytime a "Allied legal" car showed up, they whipped the pants off us with "outlaw cars". Remember, that takes real money to make a smaller package perform.
Your always going to have the few cars out there that have way more budget than sense. So the only way to combat that is with a simple weight rule, in accordance to CC, if you have a way to check it.
Fulton's rules are pretty spot on, and the racing is fast and fairly competitive, and they even allow 4BBl carbs. Remember 4BBL carbs are plentiful and cheap, I have 3 times the amount in a legal 2BBl carb than I do in a 4BBL, and trust me my engine loves it.
I'd suggest watching the cars run for a while, see what trends are happening, and who's winning. Then "confidentially" find out from the drivers what there car has by completing a questionaire. You could base a rules package that would suit most, and bring a very competative class to your track, over time.
By the way, I cannot afford to bring my car there #4, but I'm in negociations with a VERY POPULAR driver that did VERY WELL in the past at MCS, that has won with my car there. If we don't make it this Saturday, expect us the following (if all works out).
Ok since it has been mentioned... cubic inches, compression, and weight of internal parts. How can you easily and cheeply (for racer and track) police these? 500cfm carb, stock clutch, steel flywheel, restricted exhaust, rpm limit, tire size, tire type, even gear ratio can all be checked easily and cheaply. Just my opinion. The class is to be equal as possible. Why make rules you can't check?
theplummer
Member
This is my point exactly, though I think we are thinking of "equal" as being different areas of the racing. I totally agree with making a rule you can't check, only brings out one's own desire to win, superceeds the desire to follow those rules. Too restrictive a rule only brings out someone spending too much money making an inferior part better.
Good example is certain casting heads only. Just because a head has a casting number on it doesn't mean that's what the head really is.
Also, speaking about smaller CI rules, look at maintenance of an engine also. A small high HP engine that has to run 1000 RPM higher to perform will exponentially wear out sooner and require more maintenance cost. Bigger engines make the same hp at lower RPM, requiring less maintenance and initial building costs, therefore becoming more budget friendly.
Also, sportsmann classes ARE true "stock car racing" as it was originally invented. Let the racers use their "ingenuity" rather than their wallets to be competative.
DaveMcLain
Active Member
A customer of mine won quite a few races at Montgomery County Speedway in a Sportsman using a .030 over 350, stock crank, cast 4 valve relief flat top pistons and claimer rods from Speedway. Stock rockers and a good 4412. I do feel that a larger engine would have made the same or more power with less rpm. With that said I can build the same 355 now with a lesser head that will out run that engine by 40 horsepower yet it's all built from the same basic parts box. Development costs money and it takes time but the parts that made the additional power don't necessarily cost any more than the ones that didn't run as well.
I like the Allied Sportsman rules and I don't see where they have much stuff that would be tough to enforce if they wanted to tear down a few engines. After all they do require an inspection hole in the pan have they every used it?
I like the Allied Sportsman rules and I don't see where they have much stuff that would be tough to enforce if they wanted to tear down a few engines. After all they do require an inspection hole in the pan have they every used it?
upsidedown
mINNIE
Thank you mopar7x forn the info.
Dave, The problem I see is, no one wants to tear down engines. Especially in an atmosphere like a dirt track!! I wouldn't tear mine down and I only have about $2000 in it. and it is a 355. I just think the best rules package is one that can be checked very easily, quickly, and FREE.
99
Active Member
Sounds like a fun night coming up this Sat. I've heard of a few sportsman cars being being preped for MMP and saw one of Mr McLain's engines being installed in an Impressive chassis this morning.
THANX RICH
People say I'm getting crankier as I get older. That's not it. I just find I enjoy annoying people a lot more now. Especially younger people!!!
THANX RICH
People say I'm getting crankier as I get older. That's not it. I just find I enjoy annoying people a lot more now. Especially younger people!!!
DaveMcLain
Active Member
It does **** to have to do teardowns but that's a good thing about having a 2 barrel carburetor rule. Right there on top of the engine within easy reach is the number 1 power regulating component. Police that carefully and you go a long way toward maintaining parity within the class. Checking displacement can also be done in a non-invasive way using a P&G setup and this can be very accurate if done correctly. The tech guy just needs to pick out one or two items to check each week at random. Pull the distributor, check for a roller cam. Use the sight plug in the pan to check for undercut counterweights, etc. Not knowing where they will look will keep the racers reasonably honest.
The reason I think that all of this is very important is that when a racer pays his $30 and goes out onto the track he should do so with a reasonable expectation of fairness. Even if he's racing for last place in the consi, he'll know that he's last because he needs to improve as a racer and he's not being cheated.
ExtremeRaceCars
Member
If i were to do it(this is what I was planning to do if the Sportsman series would have continued) You had two options... #1 GM sealed 602 crate w/four barrel, which top 3 could be protested, confiscated and torn down. #2 any 355 2 barrel all steel OEM block flat top 10 to1 which could also be protested, confiscated and torn down. The protester may be the track or any driver, that must file the claim in writing and finish on the same lap as the protested car. Protest claim would cost $500... If your legal you recieve $400.00 ... if not you get your motor back in box. JMO
mopar7x
mopar7x
i thought most were looking for an affordable rear wheel drive class to run? i think a class with steel bodied cars that peaple in the stands can relate to and looks like somthing they see on the street with all brands running not limited to crate motors would be nice variety of makes would be nice all the cookie cutter bodys and sheetmetal cars are starting to be very boring just same ole same ole!! i race when i can afford it but very seldom go watch anymore -theres only so many metric cars and sheetmetal cars i want to see go in circles i prefer blondes but occasionally like a red head or brunette!!
theplummer
Member
#1 is a good concept in theory, has already been proven to be extremely hard to implement. Crate late's have already proven that cheating is prevelant. I know of at least three so called "sealed" engines that were extremely Illegal, merely because there are avenues to purchase the sealed headbolts and installing them on an illegal motor. Doesn't really give me the warm and fuzzies that I'm going to be on a level playing field.
And the reality of it is, all things being equal is never any more than "taxicab" racing, as A.J. foyt put it when there were engine restrictions placed on the Indy 500 back in the late 70's.
Also, to put it bluntly, Daryl Waltrip was asked what class one should enter into to learn how to be a race car driver. He said simply to get into a class that has a powerful engine and learn to drive the car with the throttle, not driving around with an underpowered engine. I agree with that completely, when you limit power, you limit excitement and skill, especially when one can come up with a way to cheat in the powere department with relative assurity that they won't be checked.
