Opinions needed: UMP/USRA/IMCA

Open motor turning more produces more horsepower too. Ive seen several dyno pulls using crates versus an open motor. Difference can be 100 hp plus. Ive done some research on the crates versus open and thats why i said what i said. Take a massaged 355 versus a crate and throw them on a dyno. Turn the crate 6200 and turn the 355 7300 and see what happens. Big difference but to get that 355 to make more horses means spending more dollars which is why my point of a rpm rule. Nice 355 will make great horses at that rule and be equivalent with a crate motor.
 
Crate motor is sold as or advertised at 350hp but when u have crate insider and other doing dyno pulls all day to find extra hp and u just have to put the parts together now suddenly that 350 hp motor is now well above 400 with a 4 barrel so a crate motor that costs 3200 then u buy all the add ons u have 6000 or more tied up in a crate while ur open motor has 3 to 4000 in it so what is cheaper
 
360 max on crate and have got 520 on solid cam 2 bl 350 big difference, but it's been proven, and your not going to build a good engine for 3-4000 try 6-8000 for a good piece and crate is 3400 add carb and u can race it for 4000 and it will last for yrs unlike your open motor, cost is the reason for the crate.
 
If the crate motor is so great, what happen to the crate latemodels? It should never be mandated. Modifieds are supposed to be modified. If you want a stock motor class, do it with the street stocks. People always blame the engine for people winning. It is the countless hours in the shop making sure the car is perfect. I have looked at a lot of these B-Mods that run at Tri City. If they spent as much time working on their front ends and roll centers as they do complaining about which overpriced part beat them, it would be a very competitive class.
 
racin90 said:
I didnt mean necessarily making it flow more ect. http://www.thedirtforum.com/2barreloval.htm Read this article Several more out there but what im getting at is just like everything else. People with the $$$'s will spend it to get the little things out of what they are forced to use. This is what carb guys do to doctor a carb brought to them and its stupid. Chip rule or gear rule works for me. I like the gear rule for one reason- id mandate no msd's so i wouldnt be able to do a rpm rule. Just my thinking. Right or wrong its just my opinion. Id make the rpms around 6000-6300 There is absolutely no reason for a budget build engine to turn anymore than that. The crates turn more but thats a whole other argument lol(aka springs cam work ect ect and so on!) Engines will last longer and put on a good show to boot.
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I'd be surprised that there are people running a two barrel that hasn't had this sort of thing done. The difference between a really good but totally stock 4412 on an engine making about 425 horsepower vs one that's been modified similarly to what's in that article yet is "tech legal" is about 15 horsepower or so typically it isn't a giant difference. But there are a LOT of guys out there who are running carburetors that are terrible and in a case like that I've seen closer to 40 horsepower!

I know more than 500 horsepower is possible from a 355 with a 4412 given an open intake and cylinder head ruling.

If the rules are very specific as to what parts can be used it can save money. Take the Allied Sportsman engine package as an example. Four intakes are legal on a Chevy engine, all are inexpensive "cheap-o" intakes which is good. But when I started working on my engine program for that class I had to test all four so I bought all of them used via E-bay. Had only one piece been legal it would have been easier for me but possibly more expensive for racers since it would limit the candidate intakes that could come used from a swap meet etc.

What ignition would you like to see used to limit RPM?
 
Ok if a crate is 3400 then a good willys crate carb 1000 long tube headers for crate 6 to 700 serpentine set up another 700 see were this crate thing is going I will tell u I have eagle forged crank eagle h beam rods Mahle Pistons dart head comp cam good 4412 and just put it together last year bill was 3500 so an open motor can be built and I am competitive I feel I might not be the best driver but I feel like I'm getting better and have contended for several heat wins so I don't buy into this I need a crate I will race with what I have now if ump is handing them out I will get in line and run one but until that happens I will run what I got
 
My crate headers cost 190.00 from schoenfeld and you don't have to have a Willis carb or serpentine belt setup to race. Crate lates didn't work because a late model regardless of motor is not an economical car unlike a three link mod.i run a crate but I dont think they should be mandatory as long as there are rules in place to make crates and open motors competitive with each other.
 
Well we could sit here all day and keep throwin our 2 cents in. Way it is currently nothing will get done. There are rules out there currently that are not even being enforced so if we all callaborate and come up with a set of rules who is to say UMP wont just let all the tracks bend the rules to cater to theirselves? Thats my big beef.
 
The crate late models may of went away at Tri-City, but they are still strong in central and northern Illinois...
 
When was the last time you saw a UMP B mod teched? I mean really teched? Ive never seen it. Maybe it happens, but ive yet to hear or see it?
 
SignMaster said:
When was the last time you saw a UMP B mod teched? I mean really teched? Ive never seen it. Maybe it happens, but ive yet to hear or see it?
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The best way to do the tech is to just pick a few things at random to check each week. It could be anything and that tends to keep the cars in check. As long as the rules are enforced the racers know this and it works fine.
 
last seven years his team has been tech almost everyweek when he breaks no they don't tech him maybe like what lee motorsports said get your own act together and don't worry about who what and where and why someone got teched
 
dukman7 said:
Ok if a crate is 3400 then a good willys crate carb 1000 long tube headers for crate 6 to 700 serpentine set up another 700 see were this crate thing is going I will tell u I have eagle forged crank eagle h beam rods Mahle Pistons dart head comp cam good 4412 and just put it together last year bill was 3500 so an open motor can be built and I am competitive I feel I might not be the best driver but I feel like I'm getting better and have contended for several heat wins so I don't buy into this I need a crate I will race with what I have now if ump is handing them out I will get in line and run one but until that happens I will run what I got
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I use to think eliminating the crates was the answer that isn't the case. Sanctioning bodies need to not be afraid to claim a crate motor and tear it down by a engine shop without any affiliation. I think if a certain crate motor is dominate and there are a few that are then they should be claimed and checked to prove they are legal. The guys running open motors have to prove it.So why shoukdnt a crate motor have to.If a crate has the seals on it they are called legal by a tech man cause they have the seals. I say start claiming some motors and be sure. What happened to UMP supplying motors to tracks so crates could be claimed? Crates should have never been allowed until replacement crate motors were in place. And what tracks in the area have the quick change gear claim? Thought that was a rule this year also.
 
dirtracerl77 said:
If the crate motor is so great, what happen to the crate latemodels? It should never be mandated. Modifieds are supposed to be modified. If you want a stock motor class, do it with the street stocks. People always blame the engine for people winning. It is the countless hours in the shop making sure the car is perfect. I have looked at a lot of these B-Mods that run at Tri City. If they spent as much time working on their front ends and roll centers as they do complaining about which overpriced part beat them, it would be a very competitive class.
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Very well said
 
What do you think about this?

When each driver signs in they write down 1 thing they want checked at the end of the feature. It gets tossed in a box. When the feature is over the top 5 pull to the tech area. One person (official or driver) pulls one slip of paper from the box and that is what is teched on the top 5.

You can draw 2 or 3 some nights.

If the majority feel there is a car cheating in a specific area then they can all put the same thing on their slip and the chances are extremely high it will be drawn and checked at the end of the feature.

There would have to be some guidelines to what can be teched but this allows the drivers to have a say and keeps it simple.
 
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I think that's an awesome idea Dave.

Not only does it help push for more legal cars.. but I think it would promote trust between the sanctioning body and the driver!
 
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