OT...Don't like politics or war...don't click!

Oh by the way Plumber because of the help I got got from the government I no longer need to be on welfare. I own my own home and own a reliable car and making payments on it. I no longer worry if my bills are going to get paid or how I will feed my children. Oh and I do this with out the help of my ex. Helping people who are willing to help themselves does work I'm living proof.
 
theplummer said:
Notice how King redirects the arguement when particular points are proven not to be supporting his agenda. This is a redirecting tactic used by professional debators, that have no substance to support their arguement.
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Funny, I was accused of this. Look who's doing it now. And talk about no substance.

Quote from Jennifer
"I have never been more disgusted by someone's lack of compassion for other human's. Please don't tell me that that I took what you said wrong or that I'm putting word in your mouth or that I put too much though into what you were saying."

Bravo Jen you are correct. I read into the overtones in his first post, which he denied. Then the true spirit of what he was saying came out in black and white.
 
kingeddy said:
The world would just turn into a noxious ball of green and black gas 50 years sooner than it would had it been left to its own demise. World hunger would end. Cancer would be cured. And their wouldn't be any more republicans.:D (sorry just had to!)

king
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the dems can have world like that
that noxouis ball will be on the dems clock
 
kingeddy said:
probably not.

Ok, Now were getting to something that I think we can actually disucss.

I'm pro choice I am too, I just think we may differ at what point in the chain the choice is no longer viable., believe that stem cell research should continue I'm still researching this and doing some serious soul searching here, believe that some type of universal health care system should be implemented I believe Universal healthcare has already been implimented, though the delivery needs some work (this is a economic issue that needs to be worked out), believe that we should get out of Iraq now We do differ here, as you've heard my beliefs, believe that our borders should be sealed for one year I believe sealed forever works for me, legal immigration can continue. while all illegals are rounded up and ousted Your preaching to the choir here. I am a member of the NRA but do not believe a president will completley outlaw guns although they should ban the sale of certain types of assault rifles that should be earmarked for military use only I'm a retired police officer, I believe in the right to keep and BEAR arms, I do have reservations about the carry concealed law (of which I'd be happy to discuss later). I believe in the death penalty, and it should be enforced fully and death row should be eliminated I also agree, though I don't exactly know what you mean by eliminating death row, Death row has to exist during the mandatory appeals process. Those sentenced to death should be put to death in a more timely manner I agree. Public viewing of the executions should be allowed and televised on TV This is a bit morbid in my opinion, but maybe it's because I've seen too much death and destruction in my 17 year career, I refuse to attend funerals to this day.. I believe that taxes should be temporarily increased for the wealthiest 20% of Americans and on the upper 10% of businesses until we are back in a surplus situation and our debt is being paid downThis is one point that we really differ. I believe that there is no use to tax businesses, as they just turn it around in higher prices to the consumer, and that results in a COMPOUND TAX to the end line consumer. I'm a firm believer in a flat tax & or a sales tax to the consumer only, this way there is no way for the government to hid taxes in the cost of goods and services (which is actually rampant at this point). Repeal of the increase should happen at this point and those who paid the incremental tax should receive 100% tax repreive for an equal amount of money over the same time frame This is an interesting concept, basically your requsting the wealthy and businesses into a forced contractual loan to the government. Will there be interest paid back, or is it like the fools that have extra held out of their paycheck just so they get a large return in April?. I believe in free enterprise but not to the point that producers of our countries lifeblood (gasoline) continue to report record profits and falsely state that this profit is being re-invested in research I agree that there is a severe problem here, though I have not been able to buy into a government price regulation, you only need look at the government mandated price control for cable television to see how much of a BAD idea that is.. Some type of regulation is necessary I believe the direction to lower prices is to allow exploration in America, and keep the fuel in America, do not make it available on the world market. This would show OPEC and Venesualla (Spelling) who's really boss.. I believe that NAFTA should be repealed Should never have been implimented in the first place. We have reduced our nation into a society of consumers, not producers. We now have very little to offer the world in terms of goods and services. This is why a euro is worth three american dollars. This has to stop NOW, before we're bankrupt like Russia was.. I further believe that prayer should be allowed in school, the word God can and should be used whenever and wherever we please, and I believe that political correctness is b/s Could not have said it better myself. I believe we have repaid the African American people for the injustice of slavery and anyone playing the race card should be fined. This too is right in my wheel house, Seems to me the only people crying racist remarks are those that are still benifiting from it are the ones that have made it their sole form of income. Racist remarks by anyone should carry a fine These are usually feel good laws that have no teeth. If it is too be against the law to have free speech, it should at least fall under the litmus test of crying "Fire" in a crowded theater. This would have to be debated by a Supreme court.. I believe lawsuits should hold doulbe jeopardy for the litigants. If you sue someone and loose, you own them the money you were suing for I'd modify that slightly, there are many frivilous lawsuits and judges need to be able to identify them and throw them out immediately, without further cause, though there are cases that could go either way and need to be litigated, as that's how new concepts are developed. The responding attorney should have to provide a complete brief outlining the entire case as he intends to present it, to be evaluated by the presiding judge, if it has merit, it can continue, if not, "Get out of my court with this crap" should be the pat answer..

Thats just a few. I can hear the name calling already. I don't think so, Not today at least.


king
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I'm currently having a brain fart right now,(too much Windsor Canadian), or I'd add a few of my fundamental beliefs.
 
jh11zracefan said:
Nice to blame the victim It's kind of telling that you refer yourself as a "Victim", I'd like to see you grow past that there plumber. I will not go in to every thing that has happened in my life but there is more to the story. On why I'm not with there father. Yes as a parent I should be educating my child and I do. The said thing is instead of teaching to read and write in the home you now have to teach them stranger danger and what to do if they are touch by an adult, and how to be safe. A child at 4 or 5 should not have to worry about these things. I want my children safe more then anything. Where are you taking your children too that this is an issue, take more care in evaluating who you place near your young children. Remember, I have three of them myself.

Yes you are right I could go out and work 80 hours a week just to make ends meet. But who is there raising my children? Why are you asking me? Should you not be confident in your interview skills when it comes to interviewing a child care provider? Some babysitter who is working for a paycheck also. That is the problem more and more parents have to work longer hours just to make ends meet so we have T.V. and video games raising children.

Do you really think I was jumping for joy to know I needed help taking care of my family?Of course Not! Do you really think I said I know I can do more but I'm going to sit on my butt and do nothing about it? No I was out there working.You yourself said that you were working 40 hours a week. I own my own business now and I can tell you It requires MUCH more than 40 hours a week to maintain. I also did this while working a Full time job as a police officer for three years. Don't even try to Imply that I know nothing about sacrifice! I was PAYING TAXES when I was on welfare Not possible, as I'm sure you were receiving child tax credits, I know this because my wife and I qualified for a portion of these, and we were pulling down six figures at that time. I was giving back what I was getting. Maybe not all of what I was getting. After I got off welfare I sure was giving back what I got. What happens when the kids are sick and they can't go to a babysitters for a week and you lose your job then what?That's a tough one, I've personally had to deal with a threat of legal suit when my employer did not want to grant me time off to care for my wife while she was ordered extended bedrest during her pregnancy. I won here. I guess I wasn't doing all I could do to help myself. Unfortunately, in order to strive to be better every day, you should probably feel like this on more days than not, I know I do.

Now I go out and work 80 hours a week and then when my kids are grown they ask mommy why I worked so much and never spent much time with them what do I tell them (by they way I refuses to say one bad thing about my ex-husband to my kids). Well I guess I will tell them that no body would help mommy so I could spend time with you. Do what my mother in Law did (she was in the same situation) She worked the two full time jobs, and then when her children were old enough, she explained the situation and helped her children move on. I know it S.U.C.K.S., but almost 50% of all marriages fail. Your not alone here, you do have a different situation in that your not receiving child support. That's why AFDC is available. I understand that you took advantage of those services. So the system works. I'm not proporting to eliminate welfare at all, but I'm reluctant to add any more to it (especially at this time of economic unrest). Then these same people who think we don't need to help single parents or low income family's will be the first to blame that single parent and low income parents when the child (or teenager) commits a crime saying why weren't they there raising there kids. Well I'll tell you where we were working 80 hours to pay the bills. I know plenty of kids that turned out fine in single parent families that the parents had to work a lot. If these are your fears, you need to discuss the proper way of your children conducting themselves and being productive human beings. Talk to your children, it works wonderfully!!

I pray to God you are never down on your luck and need a little help. I pray you don't have to ever worry that the gas or electric is going to be shut off cause you can't pay the bill. I pray that you never have to worry where the rent money is going to come from. Believe me, I've been there more than I care to reflect upon.

I don't believe that it is the governments job to "takeover" as you put it but it is the governments responsibility's to help keep the USA productive and you can't do that if there are homeless people who can't get jobs or higher education to better themselves There are plenty of services available right now. Fact is, many people who are homeless, are so by choice. No amount of money will change someones will, so I believe that If a job is afforded to you, you will make a paycheck, and be a productive citizen. If that's too hard, that's your choice, live with the consequences. So there for it is the governments responsibility to help people who want to help themselves.Yes it is, and I think it's being waay overdone, with not enough expectation back from the receipiant of services.

I have never been more disgusted by someone's lack of compassion for other human's. Please don't tell me that that I took what you said wrong or that I'm putting word in your mouth or that I put too much though into what you were saying.Ok, I won't say it, but with that mentality, you will pass the same on to your children, and they will be sponging off of you for waaaay too long in their adult life.... But, again, that's your choice.[/quote]I am so glad the system worked for you. My initial statements were not directly aimed at YOU, rather a social sect as a whole. You have now identified that it was not and is not your will to just exist on someone elses dime. I praise you for that!!!! Good fortune to you in the future and I hope your children grow up well educated and well adjusted.
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It's kind of telling that you refer yourself as a "Victim", I'd like to see you grow past that.
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It called a victim of cercomstains (sp?) Things that are out of your control.

Where are you taking your children too that this is an issue, take more care in evaluating who you place near your young children. Remember, I have three of them myself.
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I can do all the invasagating (sp?) in the world and find nothing on the people who are watching my children. Many people have and things still happen. Do you really believe that children are really getting the love and attention they need in a daycare setting. Children need to feel loved and wanted.

Why are you asking me? Should you not be confident in your interview skills when it comes to interviewing a child care provider?
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See answer above.

You yourself said that you were working 40 hours a week. I own my own business now and I can tell you It requires MUCH more than 40 hours a week to maintain. I also did this while working a Full time job as a police officer for three years. Don't even try to Imply that I know nothing about sacrifice!
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You and your kids are lucky to have a wife and a mother thereto help I was not so lucky and unable to do the things you have done. Not every job in this world offers overtime. Once again you were able to have two jobs cause you had someone there to look after your children. Hard to work more hours or a second job when there isn’t daycares that are open after 6pm or on the weekends. This what you don't seem to understand that its not as easy as you think to just work more hours or a second job.

Not possible, as I'm sure you were receiving child tax credits, I know this because my wife and I qualified for a portion of these, and we were pulling down six figures at that time.
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Ok so after I had my kids I wasn't paying taxes but from the time I was 15 when I had my first job till I was 21 and had a child I paid TAXES so I did contribute some to what I was getting.

That's a tough one, I've personally had to deal with a threat of legal suit when my employer did not want to grant me time off to care for my wife while she was ordered extended bedrest during her pregnancy. I won here.
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Glad you won. Also glad that your wife and child are ok (I'm assuming).

Unfortunately, in order to strive to be better every day, you should probably feel like this on more days than not, I know I do.
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Please do not sit there and apply that I wasn’t doing what I could do to help myself. I always felt that I was doing all I could to better myself.


Do what my mother in Law did (she was in the same situation) She worked the two full time jobs, and then when her children were old enough, she explained the situation and helped her children move on. I know it S.U.C.K.S., but almost 50% of all marriages fail. Your not alone here, you do have a different situation in that your not receiving child support. That's why AFDC is available. I understand that you took advantage of those services. So the system works.
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Just cause you talk to a child doesn't mean they will understand why work was more important then they are. Some do some don't. I know I lived in a two parent home until my mom passed away when I was 15. My dad worked 18 hour days 5 day sometimes 6 days. Just to keep his family feed and the bills paid. My dad wasn't able to do much with us kids because of his job. To this day he regrates not been there for the important things in our lives.

I'm not proporting to eliminate welfare at all, but I'm reluctant to add any more to it (especially at this time of economic unrest).
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If we were to end the war and spend that money to help people in the USA then the economy would not be were it is or it would be moving up.

I know plenty of kids that turned out fine in single parent families that the parents had to work a lot. If these are your fears, you need to discuss the proper way of your children conducting themselves and being productive human beings. Talk to your children, it works wonderfully!!
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There are plenty that have not turned out fine. Proven fact when a child doesn't get the attention that is needed they act out to get that attention in good and bad ways they don't care if they get in trouble they are still getting attention. I know I sure did and I never want my kids to do the things did. I only want better for my kids then I had. As I'm sure all parents do.

Believe me, I've been there more than I care to reflect upon.
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OK, but still you don't understand what it is like to be a single parent having to juggle work and kids. Unless you have been a single parent. If you have been then I will say sorry and that you do know.

There are plenty of services available right now. Fact is, many people who are homeless, are so by choice. No amount of money will change someones will, so I believe that If a job is afforded to you, you will make a paycheck, and be a productive citizen. If that's too hard, that's your choice, live with the consequences.
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Really they chose to be homeless? So the people who lose there job and couldn't find another one chose to be homeless? Unemployment is at its highest. Hard to find a job when there isn't one to get. Hard to get a job when you don't have proper clothes to wear to get the job or a phone to find out if you got the job.

Yes it is, and I think it's being waay overdone, with not enough expectation back from the receipiant of services.
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That is were you are wrong. Last time I was on any form of welfare you had to have a job or get on in x amount of time (sorry don't remember the time frame). If you get the cash part of the assistants there it a time frame on that also you can only get it for 5 years (I think that is the time frame). You can't just live off the state as you would like to think.

Ok, I won't say it, but with that mentality, you will pass the same on to your children, and they will be sponging off of you for waaaay too long in their adult life.... But, again, that's your choice.
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I will pass compassion, kindness, loving, caring attitude on to my child. I will teach my children to be compassionate to people who are down on there luck. I will teach my children to help other in there time of need. To not have an attitude of it not my problem.

I am so glad the system worked for you. My initial statements were not directly aimed at YOU, rather a social sect as a whole. You have now identified that it was not and is not your will to just exist on someone elses dime. I praise you for that!!!! Good fortune to you in the future and I hope your children grow up well educated and well adjusted.
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Not everyone wants to live on some on else's dime and not sure that they are really living off some one else's dime. If they paid any taxes before there hard times then they are living off of there own dime.
 
Yahoo News article

The below is from Yahoo News http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080320/cm_thenation/1300860;_ylt=Ak6l.TlSDuvsfQwBYeRSJAas0NUE. (It has terse language.)

Clinton Lie Kills Her Credibility on Trade Policy
John Nichols Thu Mar 20, 1:59 PM ET

The Nation -- What is the proper word for the claim by Hillary Clinton and the more factually disinclined supporters of her campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination -- made in speeches, briefings and interviews (including one by this reporter with the candidate) -- that she has always been a critic of the North American Free Trade Agreement?

Now that we know from the 11,000 pages of Clinton White House documents released this week that former First Lady was an ardent advocate for NAFTA; now that we know she held at least five meetings to strategize about how to win congressional approval of the deal; now that we know she was in the thick of the manuevering to block the efforts of labor, farm, environmental and human rights groups to get a better agreement. Now that we know all of this, how should we assess the claim that Hillary's heart has always beaten to a fair-trade rhythm?

Now that we know from official records of her time as First Lady that Clinton was the featured speaker at a closed-door session where 120 women opinion leaders were hectored to pressure their congressional representatives to approve NAFTA; now that we know from ABC News reporting on the session that "her remarks were totally pro-NAFTA" and that "there was no equivocation for her support for NAFTA at the time;" now that we have these details confirmed, what should we make of Clinton's campaign claim that she was never comfortable with the militant free-trade agenda that has cost the United States hundreds of thousands of union jobs, that has idled entire industries, that has saddled this country with record trade deficits, undermined the security of working families in the US and abroad, and has forced Mexican farmers off their land into an economic refugee status that ultimately forces them to cross the Rio Grande River in search of work?

As she campaigns now, Clinton says, "I have been a critic of NAFTA from the very beginning."

But the White House records confirm that this is not true.
Her statement is, to be precise, a lie.
When it comes to the essential test of the trade debate, Clinton has been identified as a liar -- a put-in-boldface-type "L-I-A-R" liar.

Those of us who covered the 1993 NAFTA debate have frequently expressed doubts about the former First Lady's recent statements. We never heard anything at the time about her dissenting from the Clinton Administration line on trade policy. And we knew that she had defended NAFTA in the years following its enactment. But fairness required that we at least entertain that notion--promoted by the lamentable David Gergen, himself a champion of free-trade policies while working in the Clinton White House--that Hillary Clinton had been a behind-the-scenes critic. We had to at least consider the possibility that, at the very least, Clinton had been worried that advancing NAFTA would trip up her advocacy for health care reform, that she had made her concerns known and that she had absented herself from pro-NAFTA lobbying.

This was certainly the impression that Clinton and her supporters sought to create as she campaigned in Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Indiana--states where worried workers want to know exactly where the candidates have stood and currently stand with regard to trade issues.

But that impression was a deliberate deception.

And we must all now recognize that when Hillary Clinton speaks about trade policy, she begins with a lie so blatant--that she's been "a critic of NAFTA from the very beginning"--that everything else she says must be viewed as suspect.

The above is from Yahoo News.
 
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