Passing points vs pill draw

D

DIRT IN MY BEER

Member
Seems at one time there was talk of using passing points instead of pill draw. Seems passing points would help level the effects of always drawing that bad pill. Right now 8 laps (without a yellow) isn't long to get from last to second in order to make the dash. And if you ain't in the dash you aren't likely to do well in the A main.Also everyone would work harder to move up a spot. There's alot of sand bagging in the sprints. Once they get to second they begin looking back. They'll just cruise if they don't feel any pressure from the guy behind. The better drivers really look back coming out of turn 2. Certainly not blaming them. I'd do the same. The racing I've seen using passing points seems to be a little better racing.
 
The best thing to do in my mind is get rid of passing points and go back to qualifying. Then you wouldn't have stacked heat races or being accused of drawing number 1 everyweek. Just my opinion.
 
sprint10s said:
The best thing to do in my mind is get rid of passing points and go back to qualifying. Then you wouldn't have stacked heat races or being accused of drawing number 1 everyweek. Just my opinion.
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I couldn't agree more! As a fan of most of the traveling series, I look forward to time trials at every event that I attend. The fast guys are always going to find their way to the front no matter what the process is. Time trials lets the driver work for his starting position, pill draws don't. Time trials aren't for every class though, just mainly the top tier(late models, sprint cars). Passing points are more suited for a multi-day event, like the Short Track Nationals or East Bay's King of the 360's. I think as far as weekly racing goes, I would go back to qualifying.
 
bigrightrear said:
Time trials lets the driver work for his starting position, pill draws don't.
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Huh? I don't follow you. 2 laps on the track by yourself is more work than racing 6-8 other cars in a heat race?

With qualifying you're pretty much assured of the same cars in the dash every week. Big motor + smooth lap = dash! We used to see guys in the dash nearly every week who always backed up in the A. They couldn't drive their way around anyone, but they could make one fast lap in the mud by themselves. Pill draw allows those guys who don't necessarily have the fastest car a chance to get in the dash occassionally. It also puts on a much better show. Heat races didn't use to mean anything. They were basically just test sessions, especially for the faster cars. Now everyone has to go. Plus, no qualifying saves a lot of wear on the track. That's just a bonus.

Just my opinion.
 
just because you qualified good didn't mean you made the dash. If i remember right when we did qualify, we had to race through our heats to make it. So even if you qualified the top 6 or 8 you still had to finish top 4 or 5 in the heat to make it in the dash plus if i remember right the heats were always inverted. ( not exactly sure if thats how it was but i think it was close to that) Also when you qualified you didn't have 7 fast guys and i slow guy in the heat. You lined the heats up with the same cars that qualified in the same lap range.

I always liked qualifying better also because you got one more chance to make adjustments on the car.
 
openwheel said:
Huh? I don't follow you. 2 laps on the track by yourself is more work than racing 6-8 other cars in a heat race? That depends...especially when that guy starts on the front row nearly every week using pill draws. Just ask Joey;)

With qualifying you're pretty much assured of the same cars in the dash every week.That's because it's the same guys that show up to race every week. Big motor + smooth lap = dash! We used to see guys in the dash nearly every week who always backed up in the A. They couldn't drive their way around anyone, but they could make one fast lap in the mud by themselves.And that's because they apparently didn't know hot to set the car up for a 20-25 lap feature. One name comes to mind on that one, Doc Probst.Pill draw allows those guys who don't necessarily have the fastest car a chance to get in the dash occassionally.I thought the whole point of the dash WAS for the six fastest cars??? It also puts on a much better show.The jury is still out on that one. Heat races didn't use to mean anything. They were basically just test sessions, especially for the faster cars. Now everyone has to go. Plus, no qualifying saves a lot of wear on the track. That's just a bonus.Read Jeremy's post above, he explains that those "heat races" are just as important when you qualify as they are when you pill draw. You still have to transfer or it's off to the "B" main you go.

Just my opinion.
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I have read alot of articles over the years about young talent coming up through the ranks, but one really stands out on this subject. I don't remember who it was, I know it was in one of the old Open Wheel magazines, but the guy doing the interview asked the kid why didn't he run at his "home" track and his answer was : because they don't qualify, if you ever want to learn how to run with the Outlaws you have to first learn how to qualify or you're wasting your time.

I'm not quite sure I understand the logic of penalizing the fast guys just because someone wants to see a different driver make it to the dash on occasion. I thought the whole idea of racing was to see who the fastest guy is.
 
Also, that comment about the driver working hard for his starting position....that was actually ment for the heat race starting position, not the feature.
 
sprint10s said:
The best thing to do in my mind is get rid of passing points and go back to qualifying. Then you wouldn't have stacked heat races or being accused of drawing number 1 everyweek. Just my opinion.
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AMEN to the rigged pill draw. Let's see :confused: C&C racing sponser on 21c, girlfriend working the pill draw= Front ROW JOE. :mad: I smell a RAT:mad:
 
Lots of good comments. Everyone has their opinion, and none of them are wrong. Actually, when they qualified, I'm pretty sure the 6 best times were in the dash if they just started their heat race. They didn't have to finish. I know for sure that's how it was for quite a while at least. They did invert them and many times we watched the fast guys lay back and just make test laps on their own with no intention of ever passing a car. Tony Weyant, Joey Nash, and others. You couldn't blame them. They were already locked in and there was no reason for taking any chances.

I guess I just don't like seeing a guy get a big advantage just because of his equipment. I like seeing him earn it by having to pass cars or at least out run cars trying to pass him. You mentioned knowing how to set up the car for 25 laps. There's guys who can do that and can drive the car good but they don't have the big bad motor ($$). Qualifying almost always assures them of starting back in the pack. Pill draw gives them an opportunity to earn a spot towards the front of the A and they can ususally stay there.

Sure, some heats can be stacked and a good car and driver may not make the dash. But that just makes for a more exciting A. Now he'll start further back and we'll get to watch him race his way towards the front. The jury's not out in my mind. I like to see passing. But, as I said, just opinions. Have a nice day.
 
Rigged pill draw

Joey's girlfriend is not smart enough to rig a pill draw!!:D
Did I say that? Just kidding.:)
I think they proved last year that Joey is just lucky with the draw.
Also, he sometimes started in the back of a heat and still made the dash.
 
sprintfanatic said:
Joey's girlfriend is not smart enough to rig a pill draw!!:D
Did I say that? Just kidding.:)
I think they proved last year that Joey is just lucky with the draw.
Also, he sometimes started in the back of a heat and still made the dash.
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She's a puppet on a string you don't have to be smart, just there!
 
I don't see how joey could ever cheat. If anyone of you were ever at a pill draw in the pits you would know that you have to reach into a container that is covered so you can't see what your drawing out then you had to sign next to the number that you draw and the driver behind you had to verify it. Joey can get a little radical at times on the track, but i don't think he ever cheated on the pill draw and you can't take anything away from him for having a good racecar and knowing how to setup the car week in and week out. I know there has been times ive seen him make some pretty bad moves but on a personal aspect of it, he has always drove me clean. I can remember one heat race in the '05 season me and him slid each other every corner for 2 to 3 laps until i jumped the cushion. and not saying everyone or even pointing fingers but even if they did go back to qualifying, you still would get some people saying some drivers are cheating and the people working the clock was stopping it to soon or the clock screwed up on purpose and gave them another lap. I think from a promotors point of view yo have to look at what will bring more people to the track and what will get them to come back week after week. You will never satisfy everyone so you have to try to satisfy the majority.

Jeremy Standridge
http://www.standridgemotorsports.com
Standridge Website Designs
 
they say that quallifying will have the same guys in the dash every week, whats the diffenece in that and now? you can count on the same cars in the dash EVERY weekend. if they did go to qualifying they could invert the starts to put the fast guys to the back and if they don't finish 1st or 2nd, they don't make the dash. i think qualifying would be good for the show. it would lengthen it a little but i don't think the fans would mind.
 
Well said Jeremy. I think message board folks complained more about Joey's pill draw than any drivers did. Drivers know how it works. You're right about the clock also. I remember people complaining about Timmy's times quite a bit. That was even before his family had anything to do with the track. You can please everyone. You just have to aim for the majority.
 
I think Cory needs to rethink how he does the pill draw. Not flat poker chips with a number on them in a flat bottom box,to much room for error. Put them in tummbler or round balls with numbers, this why they can't be stacked in a corner.
 
i think the biggest reason for not quailfing is the time...there have been several nights that we have gotten out of the races quite late...the only thing to fix this would be open gates at like 2:30 and qualify at like 4. Some people just have good luck at drawing a pill....i know that we had bad luck and never got a good starting spot.also i think, not to for sure, but there was a tumbler with balls used a few years back, not 100% sure on that though. i also would like to see qualifing come back. my two cents.
 
Passing points don't always work either. A good driver draws #1 pill, wins the heat and don't even make the feature because the 2nd and 3rd place drivers started in the back and got more points than the winner.

I've seen that happen many times. Passing points just don't work. Stick to the pilldraw in place now if you don't want to take the time to do it right and qualify.

A couple more laps in the heat would take less time, and give the good driver with the bad pill draw a better chance to make it to the front.
 
instead of wasting time complaining about where a driver draws, why doesnt someone go back and make some statistics on where people started throughout last year.

just because you dont like a driver doesnt mean he cheats in any way...
 
Jake_9J said:
i think the biggest reason for not quailfing is the time...there have been several nights that we have gotten out of the races quite late...the only thing to fix this would be open gates at like 2:30 and qualify at like 4. my two cents.
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I got to ask.... on the nights that you got out late, were there 5 or more classes of cars running those nights?

You're only talking 30-45 minutes of time to qualify around 35 sprint cars. Plus with the elimination of one class this year, letting the sprint cars qualify wouldn't add anymore time than what it was last year. And I would venture to say that one of the reasons for not qualifying is the work, time and money needed to get the score board and timing system in tip-top shape.
 
there were times when there were only 4 classes running and we got out late..some people don't leave right after the sprint main....plus when you are in the mod feature is last and you have to be there for it, you get out late. it wouldn't take all that much money or time to get the timer set back up.
 
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