Lincoln County has had a blanket warrant for years. The only difference is the take you to the hospital to draw your blood if you refuse to blow. To the people complaining about this if you are not drunk you would just blow and the blood test doesn't come into play. If you refuse to blow than chances are you know you are drunk and in my opinion you gave up your rights when you got behind the wheel and endangered everybody on the road.
st. charles police
- Thread starter 20rocks
- Start date
theplummer
Member
Ok, I think I have figured out a way for me to explain my distain for this subject. I do not believe it's illegal to request Blood, Breath, saliva, urine, sperm, hair folical, fingerprints, photographs, or any other means of identification of a person or crime being committed.
My whole issue is wether the government has the right to make a warrantless, unbaiased stop and frisk, with NO probable caues, in an attmept to catch some type of violation. This by it's pure definition is an illegal search and seizure. Once a search is deemed to be illegal, then any evidence discovered AFTER that is deemed illegal also. This is called "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree".
You may be willing to give up your rights to feel slightly more secure, but I am not. The government needs to find another way to solve the intended problem. Hell, it's so illegal, that the police used to not be able to call A DWI Checkpoint, a DWI Checkpoint. They had to call it a "Safety Checkpoint" This is a mere play on words. I can remember being part of the checkpoint roll call. The supervisor would tell us to only ask for license, registration, and proof of insurance. And to only mention that we were performing a safety inspection. How come we only did these "Safety inspections" on Friday and Saturday night from 10PM to 2Am. And a location was always chosen so people could not see ahead and make a turn prior to discovering they were already in the "TRAP". If we mentioned that the checkpoint was a DWI Checkpoint, it would be deemed an Illegal search. I wonder what has changed.
If we were supposed to be doing a Safety checkpoint, why weren't we doing them on tuesday morning on a main artery, during rush hour traffic?
If DWI checkpoints were so great, why don't they post them right outside Bush Stadium, or your local bar, or Elks hall, or Wedding reception, Or the town Fair? The jails would be brimming.
This makes me think of a Joke.
A cop is parked outside a busy bar. He's kinda hiding around a corner, but watching nonetheless.
It's close to closing time when a man opens the bar door and stumbles out into the street, falling down, and rolling around on the pavement. He gets up and stumbles across the street to the parking lot. He gets about half way to his car and has to stop and rest by leaning against a telephone pole. He misses and falls to the ground again.
A short time later, he manages to get up, finishes walking to his car, gets in and fires it up. As he backs out of his parking spot, he is very erratic on the gas and brake, jerking back and forth as if he doesn't know where he is.
The drunk pulls out onto the city street and drives away. The Cop sees this and pulls up behind him and follows him. The driver does nothing wrong for blocks. Then the Cop sees a questionable offense, he thinks the driver was driving over the center of the road (with no road stripes), and procedes to stop the man.
He makes the man get out of his car and puts him through the sobriety test. After the tests were complete the cop says, "I can't believe it your not drunk at all?" The man replies, "Nope, I'm the designated Decoy."
My whole issue is wether the government has the right to make a warrantless, unbaiased stop and frisk, with NO probable caues, in an attmept to catch some type of violation. This by it's pure definition is an illegal search and seizure. Once a search is deemed to be illegal, then any evidence discovered AFTER that is deemed illegal also. This is called "Fruit of the Poisonous Tree".
You may be willing to give up your rights to feel slightly more secure, but I am not. The government needs to find another way to solve the intended problem. Hell, it's so illegal, that the police used to not be able to call A DWI Checkpoint, a DWI Checkpoint. They had to call it a "Safety Checkpoint" This is a mere play on words. I can remember being part of the checkpoint roll call. The supervisor would tell us to only ask for license, registration, and proof of insurance. And to only mention that we were performing a safety inspection. How come we only did these "Safety inspections" on Friday and Saturday night from 10PM to 2Am. And a location was always chosen so people could not see ahead and make a turn prior to discovering they were already in the "TRAP". If we mentioned that the checkpoint was a DWI Checkpoint, it would be deemed an Illegal search. I wonder what has changed.
If we were supposed to be doing a Safety checkpoint, why weren't we doing them on tuesday morning on a main artery, during rush hour traffic?
If DWI checkpoints were so great, why don't they post them right outside Bush Stadium, or your local bar, or Elks hall, or Wedding reception, Or the town Fair? The jails would be brimming.
This makes me think of a Joke.
A cop is parked outside a busy bar. He's kinda hiding around a corner, but watching nonetheless.
It's close to closing time when a man opens the bar door and stumbles out into the street, falling down, and rolling around on the pavement. He gets up and stumbles across the street to the parking lot. He gets about half way to his car and has to stop and rest by leaning against a telephone pole. He misses and falls to the ground again.
A short time later, he manages to get up, finishes walking to his car, gets in and fires it up. As he backs out of his parking spot, he is very erratic on the gas and brake, jerking back and forth as if he doesn't know where he is.
The drunk pulls out onto the city street and drives away. The Cop sees this and pulls up behind him and follows him. The driver does nothing wrong for blocks. Then the Cop sees a questionable offense, he thinks the driver was driving over the center of the road (with no road stripes), and procedes to stop the man.
He makes the man get out of his car and puts him through the sobriety test. After the tests were complete the cop says, "I can't believe it your not drunk at all?" The man replies, "Nope, I'm the designated Decoy."
t.nie
Patience Tester
Somehow, I just don't see us looking back at this time 30 years from now and saying "it all started with that warrant for taking blood and look at where we are now, can't even leave the house without first getting permission from our local police force to move. Sure wished we would have fought that government oppression back when it all started, but we just thought they were trying to protect us from drunk drivers. Boy, were we ever wrong. Now you can't do anything without some form of government control over it. Gotta have a permit to have a weenie roast, can't walk in the park without a permit and those cops at the entrance to walmart checking I.D.s are just like those ninja cops we used to see at Pevely, all glaring and menacing, acting like we're all criminals for wanting to go shop. Just cannot believe the oppressive police state we live in now, with a third of the population overseeing the rest of us and dictating to us every single thing we do. Looking back on it now, we should have just said no to those blood sample warrants and let the darn drunks kill off a few of us every year. Sure would be better than the oppression we have now."
No. Somehow, in a society where we elect the people who make the laws, I just don't see that happening.
T.NIE:
I'll let you have the last word on the subject, I commend you for having the insight to see what the future just may someday hold even if you are being facetious.
Print your comments out and preserve them for your Grand Children to read in the future.
They will be so proud that their Grandfather possed such insight, but ol' Grandpa, always the joker, just laughed it off.
I'll let you have the last word on the subject, I commend you for having the insight to see what the future just may someday hold even if you are being facetious.
Print your comments out and preserve them for your Grand Children to read in the future.
They will be so proud that their Grandfather possed such insight, but ol' Grandpa, always the joker, just laughed it off.
wheel spinner
Member
Hey Plummer,
If you still have friends in law enforcement a book from Sheriff Richard Mack would make a great gift for them. You could Google "Sheriff Richard Mack" or go to his website. http://www.sheriffmack.com/
His book "The Proper Role Of Law Enforcement" gives us an insider's glimpse into the pervasive forces that are relentlessly driving America towards a police state. Richard Mack tells of his personal transformation from "by-the-numbers" cop to constitution-conscious defender of citizens' rights and freedoms.
His book "The County Sheriff, America's Last hope" This short but powerful book is a must read for all citizens, sheriffs, and government officials that we may all work to return America to the constitutional republic she was meant to be.
As for your decoy story, I got to be the decoy twice. The patrons in the bar that saw my performance wanted to nominate me for an Oscar. My act included dropping my keys while trying to unlock the back door then realizing I'm at the wrong car. I flushed a cop out of the ally across the street. Even the cop got a laugh out of it. The other time was after a kegger in the highland pits.(those were good days) The keg ran out about 1:00. I always limit myself when I'm driving. Someone said you go first. I didn't know why. Next thing I was standing on one leg counting to 30 (trying not to laugh) as the rest of the party when by. I don't let my friends drive drunk (but I don't have a machine to test blood).
If you still have friends in law enforcement a book from Sheriff Richard Mack would make a great gift for them. You could Google "Sheriff Richard Mack" or go to his website. http://www.sheriffmack.com/
His book "The Proper Role Of Law Enforcement" gives us an insider's glimpse into the pervasive forces that are relentlessly driving America towards a police state. Richard Mack tells of his personal transformation from "by-the-numbers" cop to constitution-conscious defender of citizens' rights and freedoms.
His book "The County Sheriff, America's Last hope" This short but powerful book is a must read for all citizens, sheriffs, and government officials that we may all work to return America to the constitutional republic she was meant to be.
As for your decoy story, I got to be the decoy twice. The patrons in the bar that saw my performance wanted to nominate me for an Oscar. My act included dropping my keys while trying to unlock the back door then realizing I'm at the wrong car. I flushed a cop out of the ally across the street. Even the cop got a laugh out of it. The other time was after a kegger in the highland pits.(those were good days) The keg ran out about 1:00. I always limit myself when I'm driving. Someone said you go first. I didn't know why. Next thing I was standing on one leg counting to 30 (trying not to laugh) as the rest of the party when by. I don't let my friends drive drunk (but I don't have a machine to test blood).
moonflow
BIRKY!!!
Let me ask you this....since you think being a "decoy" is so fun. How would you feel if one of those people you decoyed for hit a family member of yours head on and seriously injured or killed them?
I don't think it's cute to be an accessory to a crime, especially one that can traumatize so many people so suddenly.
The fact that there's even a debate on "rights" at a DWI checkpoint designed to keep the most dangerous drivers in the world off the road indicates to me that there is a very serious problem, especially the disregard for the other people on the road, and their families.
I don't think it's cute to be an accessory to a crime, especially one that can traumatize so many people so suddenly.
The fact that there's even a debate on "rights" at a DWI checkpoint designed to keep the most dangerous drivers in the world off the road indicates to me that there is a very serious problem, especially the disregard for the other people on the road, and their families.
I'm sorry I couldn't resist,
Can't believe anyone would even discuss Rights at a dwi check point, do you feel that your rights are to apply in some areas and not in others.
Your Rights are your Rights all the time 24/7/365.
Speaking of rights, did anyone notice in the paper recently concerning the division amoung the Supreme Court as they began considering the Rights issue of the strip search of a 13 year old girl while at school.
Thats 6th or 7th grade, has anyone ever felt so threatened by a 6 grader that they felt the need to strip search them.
What I can't believe is that any Supreme Court Judge would be divided on that issue, anyone want to guess wich judge or judges is having trouble deciding if that is an issue or not.
Can't believe anyone would even discuss Rights at a dwi check point, do you feel that your rights are to apply in some areas and not in others.
Your Rights are your Rights all the time 24/7/365.
Speaking of rights, did anyone notice in the paper recently concerning the division amoung the Supreme Court as they began considering the Rights issue of the strip search of a 13 year old girl while at school.
Thats 6th or 7th grade, has anyone ever felt so threatened by a 6 grader that they felt the need to strip search them.
What I can't believe is that any Supreme Court Judge would be divided on that issue, anyone want to guess wich judge or judges is having trouble deciding if that is an issue or not.
moonflow
BIRKY!!!
If you are suspected of DWI, the police has the authority to conduct a further investigation, including search for more evidence, and to collect evidence, such as breath test, and in some cases, blood sample. Once you are suspected of DWI, your rights against illegal search are pretty much out the window, because you are suspected of being involved in the commission of a crime.
t.nie
Patience Tester
If I was being accused of drunk driving and knew that I was sober and the cop was just mistaken, I wouldn't mind that blood test at all. I would be happy to have the "right" to prove my innocence, and that blood test would be conclusive proof that would stand up in any court.
theplummer
Member
Please re-read paragraphs 1&2 of post 162. Note that any evidence collected as a result of an illegal action of a law enforcement officer therefore becomes "tainted" and no longer allowable in a court of law. Therefore it's not the fact that a person is suspected of a DWI in a checkpoint, but rather, does the officer have the right to stop that car and any other car for the purpose of checking that driver for committing a crime, or does that constitute an Illegal search. I say it does, and therefore anything that results from that stop is therefore, by nature unacceptable evidence in court.
theplummer
Member
Thanks Wheelspinner, I'll look into them. If it reads like I think it does, I've been looking for just this ammunition to use on those particular kind of cops that have been described to me by a friend as, "Someone who was picked on in high school, and now he's going to get even with the world". Man that sentance speaks VOLUMES to me.
wheel spinner
Member
I don't know. Many years ago I was charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. (That's what you got when you supplied alcohol to a minor back then) The officer asked if I was taking responsibility for everyone I supplied. I grew a little then. Now I try to discourage anyone from driving while impaired whether it's from alcohol, medications, sleep deprivation or emotions. It doesn't matter if whether it's a family member, if anyone was hurt by actions I played a part in I would be devastated. If I see you in the pits after, I'll still offer a beer as long as you do not appear impaired. If you accept and latter crashed I will feel bad.
I do think it's cute when the crime is only a assumed crime. The first time after the pit party the police did not have "reasonable suspicion". I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. They didn't even give me a warning for something. They threw my license back and took off. I doubt anyone parked in the pits was over.
The other time the cop followed me to the edge of town, realized what was up and turned around. I talked to him latter. No one in the bar took advantage of the distraction because no one needed to. In both cases people got to see the police operate which caused them to moderate their drinking habits. To think that I may have saved someones life, that does feel pretty good. (in a cute kind of way)
You might be told that is their design but it seems these "most dangerous" soon return to the road and quickly learn to avoid the checkpoints. DWI checkpoints are designed to catch those who show no signs of impairment but are still over the legal limit. This is to erase the notion that if my driving is good then I am safe to drive. And the notion that the police won't stop me unless they see a driving violation.
If the police are proud of their checkpoints then include a webcam and let the public see their professionalism. Pipe it into every bar. When people realize that that could be them they may change their drinking habits.
