I do agree with your first statement, though no one can prove it to be legal or illegal so we are speculating. If the UMP rules do state you can refuse a claim once before fines and suspension then they followed that. So the problem isn't rule enforcement but the rules themselves.
stlracing: UMP claimed bryan collins (brant kehrer's) engine and they refused to have it taken and t
- Thread starter jdearing
- Start date
I do agree with your first statement, though no one can prove it to be legal or illegal so we are speculating. If the UMP rules do state you can refuse a claim once before fines and suspension then they followed that. So the problem isn't rule enforcement but the rules themselves.
So are the modifieds a glorified hobby class since they run for $500-$700?
Plus the $25,000 motors.
I think the majority of the hired local drivers do not get paid, if so then not very much. With the exception of Korte in the SLM.
Given the cost versus gain in being a local weekend warrior, none of them "have their feet on the ground"
Yes, UMP does need to stiffen up the penalties 10 fold.
In addition to my previous comment, if I owned the car and whoever was driving it didn't allow them to tech it, I would be more than a little upset with him personally for costing me the winnings for the night, the fine and the embarrassment.
I am hoping this was a miscommunication on all parties, but I think that is being a little naive at this point.
I am hoping this was a miscommunication on all parties, but I think that is being a little naive at this point.
PITDRIFTER
Motorsports
I agree! Said the same thing many times.
zeke23z
zeke23z
What ever happened to "if you ain't cheatin you ain't trying"?
I run a crate myself with UMP changing the shock rule for next year your going to here more of this suspected cheating in this class.UMP is putting us on 2 choices of shocks,and 2 choices of motor.I hope they do start teching more maybe on a weekly basis.I got in this class because of the motor rules they should be strictly enforced!Just my opinion,then again i have no money to cheat with.
I run a crate myself with UMP changing the shock rule for next year your going to here more of this suspected cheating in this class.UMP is putting us on 2 choices of shocks,and 2 choices of motor.I hope they do start teching more maybe on a weekly basis.I got in this class because of the motor rules they should be strictly enforced!Just my opinion,then again i have no money to cheat with.
PITDRIFTER
Motorsports
For 99% of us local racing is a hobby. Unless you have someone footing the bills or win all the time there's no way around it.
all i have to say is why after Kehrer's made a post as to why they didn't allow a claim. why do people still think they are cheating. if you had money in an engine and had it tuned to there liking and know the history of the engine would you allow an engine claim if you wanted to race the next night and it was also posted that it was not a ump sanctioned event therefore being allowed to run. and it wasn't even a ump tech which would have allowed for possible fine and suspension. so why keep *****ing about something that has been resolved. jmo
DIRTCHAMP77
Member
Well i see why they ran on sunday. Ump was not a factor and just track rules which tech is not as in depth.
1 UMP should make the call to take the motor and give a loaner. Not give the choice to the owner/driver!!!! If you race in a spec class you should not have that big of an advantage.
2. I would bet the shock rules for 2010 will be for ump to claim a shock at the track and give you a replacement until the send your back. Good Idea!!
3. Cheating is Cheating...Getting everything out of the grey areas is racing. You have to push the limits to get the advantage. If you push too close and get caught it is cheating. The +/- are part of machining as no two motors are the same. Taking advantage of the +'s is a way to get more out of the motor. Frees up the rotating components. It is not cheating unless you go too much or get more wear on that tolorence and makes that oversized.
1 UMP should make the call to take the motor and give a loaner. Not give the choice to the owner/driver!!!! If you race in a spec class you should not have that big of an advantage.
2. I would bet the shock rules for 2010 will be for ump to claim a shock at the track and give you a replacement until the send your back. Good Idea!!
3. Cheating is Cheating...Getting everything out of the grey areas is racing. You have to push the limits to get the advantage. If you push too close and get caught it is cheating. The +/- are part of machining as no two motors are the same. Taking advantage of the +'s is a way to get more out of the motor. Frees up the rotating components. It is not cheating unless you go too much or get more wear on that tolorence and makes that oversized.
You're not getting it, the crate class is designed this way, being teched / claimed is part of it, thus not allowing with or without owner approval is hogwash. They (owners and drivers) need to understand there can be a claim at anytime, anywhere they are racing in this class. When asked the answer should always be yes, it's ok to tech, unless you have something to hide.
UMP should have claimed the winner, a random placed car and the current point leader.
Didn't have time to read all the pages on this post but I think it is really damn funny how people want to Bi### about them not teching that car that ran 2 with a damn good driver. What is wrong with this picture? A car runs 2nd to another car to drove away from him and you guys are worried about the 2nd place car being illegal? I think instead of everyone sitting on here crying maybe they should go to a driving school or set up class over the winter to catch up! JMO sorry if it wasn't what you wanted to hear.
turn left
GRAND MASTER
I couldnt agree more. If you race a class there they claim or tech motors be prepared to do so at any given time. If you want to you can run that exact same car in the super class and not worry about it.
As for Collins he got the raw end in this deal. He has no affiliation with the team and it looks bad on him , glad Keher addressed that.
I have a thought come up with rules everybody has to go by STICK to them no GREY area's tech them on a regular bassis or say to hel l with the crates and bring back the STEEL BLOCKS do away with all the crying thats been going on since day one they did this to be easier on the pocket book but everybody knows your speeding more money know than you prob did before running steel blocks thats why I quit went to mods I loved it at first then seems like it fell apart ... SteelBlocks ,no drysump, only drive one car (class) a night ,tire rule 40's, people are loosing intrest in the crate class because of all the BS that goes on ,ask arround have a rules metting or something with the drivers an let us come up with a class instead of throwing a bunch of rules in the hat taking shocks away and other BS .. the Mods put on a good show and so did the steelblocks with out all this crap ...just my thoughts ..................................................................................................... PS congrats to the 2009 champ I know what you have to deal with to get that title its not all fun and games
I respectfully disagree with my friend Mr. Jolly. (12raceu2) The crate guys should be jumping up and down. UMP has claimed/teched several motors. There have been two refusals. Why refused? We can only guess but what it has done is to send a message to all crate racers that your motor can and will be teched. Anyone who continues to run an illegal motor is foolish. If you are doing it you will be caught.
Crate racers should feel better about being on a level playing field with other racers (motors) than in the past. Frankly, I applaud UMP's efforts. It is working guys!!!
PS I do agree in part regarding shocks. UMP needs to give the recent rules more thought.
Crate racers should feel better about being on a level playing field with other racers (motors) than in the past. Frankly, I applaud UMP's efforts. It is working guys!!!
PS I do agree in part regarding shocks. UMP needs to give the recent rules more thought.
im sorry but i have to disagree being claimed is alot different than being teched another driver has to pay to have a claim if ump did not tech than the owner should have the right to say yes or no if it was ump doing tech then i would understand all the accusations of him cheating. you have to look at as an owner. if i was an owner and in that situation i would have done the same thing cause who knows who and how hard there loaner engine has been ran
DIRTCHAMP77
Member
I agree here. There are several shock manufacturers who suppot dirt racing and to only allow 2 or 3 different is just not right. Just limit the type of shock like they are now and offer a loaner shock of UMP's choice if they want to take a shock for tech.
They should just change the engine rule to allied sportsman rules.Any solid cam, flat tops, but iron or aluminum heads ok. (no porting), but maybe let them run a 4 barrel.Would run just as good as a 604, and really easy for the track to tech.Would be cheaper to..If caught cheating, you are banned for the year.No second chance .If you refuse tech, you are done for the year.
yes that is good that they are claiming motors on certain nights I applaud that very much so.. but if they had a weekly check or partial tear down of some kind that the racers know is going to be done all the time maybe they would not be so quick to spend all that money cheeting the motors or taking them with in the grey area of the rules .. but this could be costly and alot of hastle and more effort to put forth but this is the only way to keep a limited class like that fair .WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT YOU JUST CAN'T TRUST A RACECAR DRIVER/OWNER ...LOL...just remembering the days of the steel blocks no gripeing just racing and having fun. If UMP can get the crates back to that some how like i said maybe a rules meeting or talk to the racers see if anyone can come up with an easier way to police the problem areas , because someone else said in another post" they have asked arround and many feel its out of control and won't be in the class next year "I have heard that my self from quite a few people.I'm not bashing the crates I'm all for them I was part of the first dozon that first ran them in the area when no one else wanted to have anything to do with them Hell I wasn't sure myself at first but it has grown and grown with that more has to be done to keep it growing .And I am prob speaking out of terms because I no longer am racing that class but would like to again someday.. and anything ump and OTHERS are doing to police that is greatly appreciated by the racers that cant afford to go out and spend that kind of money to try and keep up with "the Jones' "
ExtremeRaceCars
Member
The only way to stop cheating is to make the penalty so severe it out weighs the benefit. IMO if your caught with an illegal crate motor you should be fined $1000 and suspended from all UMP events for 365 days for first offence. Refusing a claim should be the same as if your illegal...same penalty. Caught twice... life time ban from any UMP sanctioned crate event.
