TCS - Caution Filled Modified Heats???

qwaynick

qwaynick

The Original Q
What was the deal last night? Couldn't get more than two consecutive laps in during the heat races to save their life! Only race I saw that was worth much in the modifieds was the dash. I left before the feature due to the time but I hope it went better than the rest of the evening for the boys. We usually have some pretty good modified racing around here. Kinda embarassing for them.
 
Not saying it's the way it always is but the last two times I've been there (SN's and NARA) there was more time spent on the modifieds than any of the other classes. It's very bad.
 
slideways said:
Not saying it's the way it always is
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I WON'T SAY ALWAYS, BUT MOST OF THE TIME.THEY DO HAVE A PROBLEM AT TCS WITH THE MODS. TWO OF THE LAST FOUR TIMES I'VE BEEN THERE THEY HAVE HAD TO START A RACE SINGLE FILE BECAUSE THEY COULD GET A GOOD START. KEVIN NEEDS TO TALK WITH SOME OF THE GUYS.
 
I agree with qwaynick. Highland's Modifieds do a much better job. One thing that puzzled me was that there people getting took out right and left and no calls were made. I think that poor guy in #17 got took out three times. That's fine if the officials are going to put everyone in the back that is involved in the yellow and not give anyone their spot back but some calls should be made with these guys that spin someone out getting blackflagged or put to the back. I know Griffaw thought he got took out but I did not see it. I hope this is not what Gordon Gundaker means by racing the way it used to be.
 
I'd like to see the "two unassisted spin in the same race" rule amended to "two unassisted spins in a night." I think this would be a bit less extreme than kicking guys out of heat races for just one spin, but such a rule might make the spun out racers think twice the rest of the night about just how agressive they want to fly into the corners--or other cars.
 
A couple of weeks ago when Jimmy Deering posted some ideas about getting the races over with quicker I thought about some ways to amend that rule also. One idea I thought of was that if you use your two spins in the heat, you are gone after one spin in the consi or feature. It seems that no matter what track you go to the same drivers are causing a majority of the yellows. I want them to have the chance to learn how to race but learning to keep their foot out of the gas may be a good start.
 
Here's an idea. Have a "cumulative spin" rule. Keep track of how many times any driver spins out per event, and keep a running total that starts from the beginning of the season, (or since we are already halfway through the season, next Sunday.)

Drivers accumulate spins as they go. Once you reach a certain number, lets say 4, then you have to race in a special heat just for the rookie spinners. So a guy goes out on night one, spins twice in his heat, twice in the feature, the next week he gets put in the rookie race. For each race he runs without spinning, he gets one of his four spins removed from his total. Once he goes back to zero, he is no longer put in the rookie race, and gets to run where his pill puts him. If he spins in the rookie race, he gets another spin added to his total, meaning one more night of rookie racing. Drivers who end up in the rookie race have to race their way back out by not spinning and causing cautions. Oh yeah, and in the rookie race, only the top two on any given night are transferred to the semi, they always start at the back and if they spin once in the semi or feature or are involved in a caution, they are out.

Sure, the rookie race might be one guy at first. But hey, if it were me, the embarrassment at being put on the track by myself for 10 laps or whatever while the announcer talked about how I was a rookie spinner who needed practice so I had to race all by myself would be incentive enough for me to avoid losing it. I would want that experience to be over as fast as possible, so I would be busting my butt to get out of the rookie deal. And it would give me four races to think about driving my car and getting it under control.

I think such a plan would either 1) convince modified drivers in over their heads to go elsewhere to race or 2) convince modified drivers in over their heads to not drive over their heads or 3) get all the problem children in one race, so they can tear each other up and pay the price and get motivated to not drive over their heads.

At least if they are all in one race, they are not causing a huge delay scattered throughout the heats. And it would make them earn their way into racing with the experienced modified racers who can put on a great show without a lot of wrecks.
 
Guys drawing cautions doesn't help either...

IMO something needs to be done with the guys that spin and sit there to draw a yellow only to pull away as soon as the yellow comes out. I saw a few guys keep going after they spun but several sat there and then pulled away as soon as the yellow fell.
 
chathamracefan said:
IMO something needs to be done with the guys that spin and sit there to draw a yellow only to pull away as soon as the yellow comes out. I saw a few guys keep going after they spun but several sat there and then pulled away as soon as the yellow fell.
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That is the numero UNO thing that PISSES me off the most! Don't intentionally draw a yellow! That should be an immediate black flag or scored a lap down, one or the other.
 
well here is my opinion
If they would allow only one spin in the heats and two in the features and anyone who spins and waits for a yellow should be black flagged that would cut out a lot of the guys just sitting around and waiting for a yellow and it just might speed up things that way

But that is JMO

Dave Wulf
 
I wish, for once,there could be a big late model race, without any modifieds, even though i like to watch them, i would rather sit and wait for the late models to cool off between their events, than set through another spinfest, like those mod heats, last night, i wish i could have stayed for the feature, but it was after 2 am when i got home anyway.
 
The problem with making new rules is that you take a chance at upsetting drivers. If they don't like the rules they might decide not to come back. Of course, TCS has the benefit of running uncontested on Sunday evenings. I would think that the embarassment of the quality of racing similar to last night would be enough to change things. These guys can't be having fun out there turning circles in the middle of turns 1 and 2. Seemed funny to me that the sportsman/streetstock/bombers (couldn't remember the official class) were able to knock out their heat races in a fraction of the time that it took the modifieds. And they're supposed to be the "rookie class."

The guys last night were tossing their cars into the corners hard! Problem was they all wanted the bottom line! Maybe, and this is just an assumption, track prep needs to be addressed to make the higher lines more competative. Seemed that the bottom was the fastest and of course everyone was gonna want to be down there.

I'm thinking instead of a penalty system maybe a reward system would be better. Reward the class for a caution free or low caution event by increasing payouts or by using a point fun type reward system for year end awards! Just another idea. Build on it if you can.
 
Mods always seem to take a long time, and for some reason it seems that the drivers that cause some of the spins never get put to the back. Last night the yellow 33 of Shane Cockrum (I believe this is the name of the driver) took out a couple of drivers, yet he held his spot and nothing was done. In his heat race he took the 17 out and low and behold 17 was put in the back and 33 got his spot back. That seems to be the wrong way to me , start putting the ones that cause the spin in the back like they should be and some of this bs would stop.
 
Glad someone was able to count them! I tried to think back on how many there had been and couldn't remember. Seemed countless to me!!!!
 
Let me add my two cents here. I've watched the modifieds for many years at TCS being the track announcer. At one time a few years back, we in the tower, about five of us, would put a dollar in the pot and make a guess on what lap the first yellow would come out when mod's were on the track! That's how we entertained ourselves!
The way I see it, it's strickly my own view, you've got 22 to 24 cars wanting to get to the front on the first lap of a 25 lap feature like last night. P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E! That's what it takes. Take Ray Walsh for example. He started in the back of the pack, took his time, went high, picked em off one at a time and had a top five finish. Look, you don't have to win every race to win the title. Be consistant and have P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E pays off! One other thing, when Rusty Griffaw spun in turn two, the rule is you go to the back. Did you see what he did? Rushed to the front as if to get is spot back, was told he's on the rear, took his sweet time, held the race up for another lap then went the wrong way on the track, blocked the back straight, then finally went off, wasting more time. Whether or not you like the track rules, they're there for a reason. If you don't like them, your options are few. 1. Buy the track and make your own rules. 2) Don't come back 3) Have an intelligent conversation with the owners and make make your concerns know in a business like manner. These are just my own reflections on what I've seen over the years. These are not ment to P*** anyone off. I appreciate the work that all the drivers and their crew do. Yes, I thought last night went kind of late, but when you've got special people doing special things, you've got to roll with the time. My thanks to all who attend the LUCAS race, the drivers & crew, the Wallace's, Kenny Schrader and everyone who made it a special night for me! George "The Announcer" Depper
 
The bottom was the place to be? I went low in the SS feature and 4 cars flew past me outside while I slid around trying to keep from doing little circles. I watched the Mod heats, and all the guys who were spinning were down low, in the sloppy mud. That was why they were losing it, it looked to me. That is what looked to me to be the problem, with no sportsmans or late models to burn that off, the low line stayed wet and sloppy the whole night, and the middle of the track was relatively tacky.

I disagree about the payout reward deal. Human nature is that we take the path of least resistance, and when given alternatives, we choose the one that is easiest. Racers won't hit the track thinking hey, if I don't spin my car tonight, I might get an extra $20 three months from now, they hit the track thinking hey, if I can get past this guy in front of me right now, I get one more spot further forward in the feature tonight, and one position higher to start from to race for the purse in this feature right now.

Trust me, there isn't a whole lot of forward planning going on in the car. Certainly not to the extent of end of season rewards, shoot, you don't know what is going to happen that night, you may get tore up and your whole season could end right then and there. So who cares about an end of season payoff for the most caution free laps, you may not make it to collect it.

But they would think Hey, if I spin my car one more time, they are going to stick me in the rookie race where I stand a greater chance of getting torn up, costing me money, and embarrasing myself in front of 800 people and my fellow racers.

We are not talking about managing the behavior of 5 year olds here, where reward for good behavior often works better than punishment for bad. We are talking about grown men who could care less how many times they crash and spin and delay the program. I think that all things considered, making the alternative of being put to the back or off the track altogether for causing cautions on the night would do a lot more than offering these guys some kind of end of season payout that many may not even be around to collect.

It would be a darn sight cheaper too.
 
qwaynick said:
Well, it was an idea.
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And we do need ideas on how to fix the mod caution problem, you are absolutely right there.:) 21 cautions in five races, average what, 2 - 3 minutes at least per caution and theres 45 minutes to an hour or more of sitting in the stands watching nothing but pace laps. That is just awful. If its 5 minutes a caution, then you are talking over an hour and a half just for modified cautions in the heats. I am starting to sound like BP.;) :D
 
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