The Great Debate? Is It Illegal or Is It Legal? You Make The Call

for me it is a safety thing. im sure im not they only one who has ever had the frame dig in and shoot you straight up the track in front of some one else. on the other hand i could put a stiffer spring on the rf to help keep it from happening i dont like the soft spring setups anyway but why on earth would i want to do that when the times and setups have changed so much in the last few years? we all have played a small part in the advancements of modified racing and the setups. some chose to set back and bicker back and forth about it and the others have just followed suit. its just as much about safety as running a beadlock on the rr as far as im concerned. i agree the tech at tracks is what ends up with classes out of hand (like the mods) but what do you do?
 
What about running a soft spring with a taller ride height? Or allow that frame modification and make a 700 pound minium spring rate on the right front? Making a manditory spring rate would require alot of added tech and cost for the tracks by making them check the spring in a tester so that probably wouldn't work either. So you are back to the rules. Either allow it and let everyone do it or keep it illegal and enforce it. This is really just that simple. As the video shows it isn't hard to do to lower or raise it. If it is allowed, UMP should only allow 2" from stock location and make a simple fixture to tech and leave +- 1/4" tolerance. God knows if they allow cutting of frame for safety only someone will have it holding up the decking on that corner and say that their car rolls that much.....LOL Good luck all!!!!!!!
 
i always run the factory ride heights and i would think if i stayed with the soft spring and just raised the ride height it might throw out the geometery on the front end like aframe angles and such. then i would have to start fooling around with ball joints and spendal heights to get it back right. i dont know. when i did this over the winter i cut out a 1 1/4 section on the frame (pie shape) and jacked the frame up and welded it up. to be honest i didnt even think about the rules (its been so long since our areas have had rules) its was a monkey see monkey do thing. anyway on a smooth track you dont even have to worry about the frame but it does help in the rough. as simple as the prosess is it should be legal, the fast guys that we all have to keep up with will always find ways around the rules cut frame or not. everyone should be worried about what they cant see and i dont mean traction control (thats for pusses). naturally racers will make their cars fast one way or the other.
 
Newman we are going to just have to agree to disagree on this one . I have see and heard every excuse there is about why rules should be changed. The worst one is its what all the fast guys are doin or its easy and not expensive. The rules are designed to keep an even playing field. Just cause someone found a way around the rule and has gotten away with it doesnt mean its ok. I could see the cars that were doing this last year (didnt know what they were doing But knew thier cars stayed on the bars more than others). This is CHEATING plain and simple. Like i said if safety is a comsern stiffen the spring but dont give me the crap about it making your car handle different thats the point!!
Roger Stryker
 
I have a question about the mechanics of this change. I was watching that video and wondering what bending the frame up and welding it does to chassis twist. Dirt modifieds have a decent amount of chassis flex and by forcing that rail up and welding into place while it is under a load from the pry bar or jack, I would think that it is pre-loading the chassis to want to twist in that direction. May not be a huge change, but I would think that it would have some effect.
 
newman73 said:
i always run the factory ride heights and i would think if i stayed with the soft spring and just raised the ride height it might throw out the geometery on the front end like aframe angles and such. then i would have to start fooling around with ball joints and spendal heights to get it back right. i dont know. when i did this over the winter i cut out a 1 1/4 section on the frame (pie shape) and jacked the frame up and welded it up. to be honest i didnt even think about the rules (its been so long since our areas have had rules) its was a monkey see monkey do thing. anyway on a smooth track you dont even have to worry about the frame but it does help in the rough. as simple as the prosess is it should be legal, the fast guys that we all have to keep up with will always find ways around the rules cut frame or not. everyone should be worried about what they cant see and i dont mean traction control (thats for pusses). naturally racers will make their cars fast one way or the other.
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I agree Newman, raising the right side frame rail isn't a big performance gaining advantage, latemodels have been doing it for years. It isn't going to make a 10th place car a 1st place car it will not help your car any besides keeping the frame out of the dirt.
Agreeing with Newman again there are alot bigger things to be looking at in this class. For instance why people are spending $20,000 plus on engines when ten years ago you could win races with a $5000 engine. I know not everyone is spending this much but I couldn't count the number of times I have been at the track talking to a driver that told me they had spent $20,000 or more on a motor.
JMO
 
It could make a 10th place car a 1st place car!!!!!!! If the 9 guys you cannot beat because they run a faster set up by driving the RF into the track now do not have a edge on you because you are running the same set up then yes, it can make a 10th place car a 1st place car. Motor expense....Here is a simple explanation to how that happens anywhere. If guy "A" puts in a $6000 motor and blow away the competition, then guy "B" puts in a $8000 motor to beat guy "A". Guy "C" see whats going on and decided to put in a $10,000 motor to beat guy "A&B". So you can see why rules need to be enforced and regulated to prevent this from going out of control. Same with cutting frames, where will it end??? Someone dead because of a bad accident just trying to keep up with the times. It is crap!!!!!!! Not safety!!!! Keep the frames intact!!!!!!!
 
If some guys are already gaining a performance advantage from it, then everyone has to have it or forget being competitive against it. Either obsolete whoever has it now by making it clearly illegal, or obsolete everyone who doesn't by making it legal. Pretty much the case whenever anything new that gives a significant advantage starts showing up at the track.
 
man im with you on that one! i would much rather make the guys in front of me slow down so i could race with them. that way i wouldnt have to study up as much on setups and tyring things here and there. just remember that chances are if a person is having problems keeping up now they are more than likely not going to be able to make or enforce enough rules to make up the gap without some serious effort on their racing program. i decided a couple of years ago not to worry about what my neighbor was doing, now i just worry about what im doing and it has really helped. i know some straight up imca mod guys that would put a whooping on alot of folks in other series. i do agree that rules need to be upheld but again; what do you do?
 
newman73,

I made my first ever trip to Malden a couple of weeks ago. That was a heck of a run you had there along with several other guys. That was a great feature.

I was pleasantly surprised with the track and facilities in Malden. Track got a little rough but I understand it did rain a lot the night before and they had put a lot of new dirt on the track over the winter. The promoter seemed like one of the nicest promoters I've ever met.

Anyhow, just wanted to say I enjoyed the race and congratulation on winning!

496657658_xUEd4-XL.jpg
 
April Fools_UMP rules

jdearing said:
No they aren't.. World Racing Group hasn't given final approval of the modified rules to be released.
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No rules yet for 2009 and this is the start of the 4th month! Racing started Feb. in Florida and points are being gained each week with no enforcable rules to follow.
 
By the rules.

By the rules its illegal. At the level its being done its all up to who is calling the shots though.
 
I am absolutley not taking anything away from your win (cut frame or not) but that roof is a loooong way from being U.M.P. or IMCA legal.
quote:
8.3. All flat type roofs will be allowed a maximum 1 inch difference between the front of the roof and the rear of the roof.
8.4. All curved type roofs will be allowed a maximum of 5 inches in the front and 2 inches in the rear. The break in the roof must be within 6 inches from the center of the roof.

I have personal experience with this rule. Just another one they might want to enforce consistently.
 
jdearing said:
newman73,

I made my first ever trip to Malden a couple of weeks ago. That was a heck of a run you had there along with several other guys. That was a great feature.

I was pleasantly surprised with the track and facilities in Malden. Track got a little rough but I understand it did rain a lot the night before and they had put a lot of new dirt on the track over the winter. The promoter seemed like one of the nicest promoters I've ever met.

Anyhow, just wanted to say I enjoyed the race and congratulation on winning!
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thanks!! you did a great job on the pictures. malden is a really nice place. you can always tell alot of time and effort is being put into that place. we get to visit the track 5 or 6 times every year and its a challenging place to race. the owners always show there appreciation when you visit.


now i suppose the rake in the roof would be illegal in imca or ump. lucky for me and a bunch of other cars that we dont run those sanctions. our rules are like 5 in of rake in the roofs. we can run roller cams, kk704 tires or hoosiers (depends on the track we are at) no spoilers (ump does though), 2450 on the weight, 50 pounds in front of motor plate if we run alum heads (i dont) quick change or 9in all steel suspension, ect. i assume you guys are ump in your area. modified race to me as expensive as you want it to be; it doesnt matter about the rules or the class really, heck it could be the mini stocks. you would be really surprised and probably wouldnt believe what kind of budget i have to run off of. its simple really; the car has to pay for its own racing. we build our own motors, do our own repairs on everything, and we can build our own car if we have to. i dont buy anything i dont need, i buy two tires at a time, but from lessons learned a long time ago; when i buy something for my car i make sure it is needed and not just the latest and greatest speed producing trick part that joe blow said so and so was running. oh and 98.9% of the time im the only one thats works on the car.
 
thats 5 inches of rake???? well hell, ive been selling myself short. looks closer to 12 inches to me

thought most rules still state 2 inches max. someone decide something ,no one has touched the rules in years.

what did USMTS decide? "within reason" whats that supposed to mean?
 
picture looks deceiving. i run within the rules of our series. if we would chose to run imca, ump or what ever the car would be adjusted to fit those rules as well.
 
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