I agree with you Kristopher on the street stock stuff
UMP? No UMP? How to help our local tracks?
- Thread starter RACN911
- Start date
To me a track having a sanction is a lot like burger joint, or new car dealer having a franchise. The franchise, or sanction should come with a certain amount of protected turf.
I'm not saying tracks can't or shouldn't compete. I don't think it's healthy for the sport for nearby tracks racing the same night with the same sanction. Take Farmer City and Lincoln for example. What are they, 37 miles apart? To me it makes no sense for two tracks that close to run the same sanction on the same night. It almost guarantees that one or both tracks will struggle. If we could go back in time and undo the damage done when Don Hammer convinced Mr. Driggers to sanction both tracks on the same night, then dropping FC and having Stuart "promote" it knowing it would fail, I'd like to have seen FC UMP sanctioned and running SLM, mods, sportsman, SS. And I'd like to have seen Lincoln unsanctioned or possibly sanctioned by another entity running totally different classes. Maybe sprints cars, crates (or better yet WISSOTA type LM), b-mods and hornets. With a set up like that the racers wouldn't be divided between the two tracks, and the fans would have a clear choice of what type of show to watch.
Lizardracing
race it, don't rice it!
I like having choices. Choices drive competition. Competition drive wealth.
I say let the customers(fans and teams) decide which track is their favorite. The track not performing well will either step up or go out of business and some one else can step up and make a go of it. Both choices are good for the racer in the long run. Just like any other business I can think of, two competing tracks can work out differences and help each other out with things like rules, points nights, nights off, a point series between them, etc.
I don't like sanctions on the local level. Especially UMP. It's too open for corruption because it's difficult to police. They really seem designed to help the big budget guys traveling but do little for the smaller guys having fun. National/regional sanctions like to put a monopoly on things like tires for instance. If I had a choice of tires, the price would go down because the competition would force it down. I believe you would get a better tire at a lower price if more of it were left up to the free market ideas. IMCA controls almost every part you can put on a car with approval stickers. At any given track I've been too there have been 2/3 or more teams there just having fun and not chasing anything but a good time with family and friends. It seems to make sense to me for a promoter to work on maximizing the amount of fun for 2/3 or the clientele rather than cater to the 1/3. We all like to pretend we are serious but the stark reality is it's just a hobby for most of us.
Just my random thoughts.
I say let the customers(fans and teams) decide which track is their favorite. The track not performing well will either step up or go out of business and some one else can step up and make a go of it. Both choices are good for the racer in the long run. Just like any other business I can think of, two competing tracks can work out differences and help each other out with things like rules, points nights, nights off, a point series between them, etc.
I don't like sanctions on the local level. Especially UMP. It's too open for corruption because it's difficult to police. They really seem designed to help the big budget guys traveling but do little for the smaller guys having fun. National/regional sanctions like to put a monopoly on things like tires for instance. If I had a choice of tires, the price would go down because the competition would force it down. I believe you would get a better tire at a lower price if more of it were left up to the free market ideas. IMCA controls almost every part you can put on a car with approval stickers. At any given track I've been too there have been 2/3 or more teams there just having fun and not chasing anything but a good time with family and friends. It seems to make sense to me for a promoter to work on maximizing the amount of fun for 2/3 or the clientele rather than cater to the 1/3. We all like to pretend we are serious but the stark reality is it's just a hobby for most of us.
Just my random thoughts.
havoline28
Active Member
Then would lincoln not have the sanction now because, Farmer City lost their sanction before they got it back. So what would the late model guys do if no sanction at Farmer City.
medic_33
Member
how about this?.....The acronym U.M.P. stands for united midwest promoters.......... our promoters are anything BUT united........ they compete against each other for car counts..... because the number of active and available drivers is going down........ U.M.P. cant even stay true to their name..... and truth is it isn't united promoters its a independent sanctioning body that has grown into a for profit company that has no identity and no accountability to the promoters, racers and, fans...... who are their only consumers. unless you count the many kickbacks from hoosier and all the other aftermarket companies as income....... then, THEY are the consumers and that's who UMP is really interested in pleasing...... 2 more cents......
Jimmy Cummins
CEO, Cummins Lumber Co.
I am FOR UMP, but I think some changes need to be made. I think they should go back to your best finish EACH WEEK. that helps other race tracks get extra cars when they race. If you are really racing for NATIONAL points you should have to travel a bit and race for it, not sit at home when it rains. My other idea may be kind of extreme, but i say merge the "a mods" and "b mods" into one class, 3 link cars with a QC and either a 602 or a 355 but still run for the 600 or 700 to win and 100 to start. allow the engines to be claimed or if a guy wins X amount of races the association claims his engine and auctions it off. IMCA does that at the super nationals so it isnt unheard of. before you tell me i'm crazy why wouldnt a guy rather race for 700 to win with a 15,000 modified instead of a 50,000 modified? i could go on and on and on and on and on but I really dont see things changing other than more and more guys quitting or moving down.
dirt hound
Registered User
the cat is already out of the bag
havoline28
Active Member
I don't agree lumber yards don't have to 50 miles from one another
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It would be boring if we all agreed.
OK, let's use lumber yards (or what passes as lumber yards these days) as an example....
Locally we have a Lowes and Menards within a 1/4 mile of each other. There's enough demand to keep both stores in business. There isn't enough demand for Home Depot to build a store here. Lumber yards are located however close the market will bear. Lumber yards are a poor example as they are owned by the prospective companies. Lowes isn't going to build a store too close to another Lowes.
A better comparison would be fast food franchises. While it's not unusual to have McDonalds, Burger King, and Arbys near each other, what you don't see is McD's close to other McD's, or BK's close to other BK's. What would the value of a franchise be if the fast food places sold franchises without protected territory? Not much!
Theoretically someone could build a track in the same town as your favorite track and be sanctioned by UMP on the same night as the existing track. There is no way that scenario is good for the sport, and there's no way it would be good for the existing track.....the one that had the sanction first. When UMP dropped the 50 mile rule, the value of the sanction was reduced. Race promoters are already competing with other forms of entertainment. They shouldn't have to compete with the track close by running the same classes with the same sanction on the same night.
As a racer do you want the same equipment everyone has? Or do you want something better? If I was a promoter I certainly wouldn't want the same show the track down the road a few miles has. I'd want something different and better.
havoline28
Active Member
Yes you make some good points but, McDonalds are built 30 miles from one another as a matter of fact they are built within 10 miles from one another.
If Ump was a good sanction and the economy was better we would have enough cars and fans to go around so, that's why I say may the strong survive and it breeds competition and gives the racers and fans more options.
If Ump was a good sanction and the economy was better we would have enough cars and fans to go around so, that's why I say may the strong survive and it breeds competition and gives the racers and fans more options.
Yes, we have several McD's in my area. All owned by the same guy. No one else can get a McD's here because this area is his protected turf. He paid for that turf with his franchise fees.
I agree that the strong will survive and having choices is a good thing. I just don't believe a promoter that pays for a sanction should have to compete with another track under the same sanction a few miles away.
You touched on an important point....the economy. A good economy will make up for poor decisions by UMP and promoters. Unfortunately the economy in much of IL is less than desirable, and UMP can't seem to make decisions that are in the best long term interest of the sport. And promoters.....well they're their own worst enemy sometimes.
havoline28
Active Member
Well it's 40 miles from Lincoln to Farmer City so, it's not just a few miles but, hey good discussion on the subject.
I hope things turn around before we see more tracks close..
I hope things turn around before we see more tracks close..
dirt hound
Registered User
wow 40 minutes its the economy period
illinois earthquaker
Active Member
If I had to say one thing I guess it would be uniform rules for the mods. Remember back in day allied sportsman and highland sportsman were fairly different. Wider tires 307 vs 283. But other than that AK ur right I can't think of any.
havoline28
Active Member
I say the tracks need to drop UMP in the SS they have just about ruined the class here in Illinois. Heck the tracks have their own rules anyway and the guys would not have to buy the UMP license. The drivers need to get together and stick together and refuse to race under the umbrella of UMP and buy their stupid UMP license that they get nothing for. I would bet if a track would drop them and pay a little more money they would get 20 to 25 cars.
Yes lite-inn I know you get 100 down south but they do not up here in the North.
Yes lite-inn I know you get 100 down south but they do not up here in the North.
PITDRIFTER
Motorsports
Its simply gotten to the point that you have to have big bucks or big bucks backing you to make running for anything UMP offers worthwhile.
I myself do not think local weekend warrior racing needs a national sanction. If promoters arent smart enough to see the benefit of getting on the same page with other promoters in close proximity, then they shouldnt be promoting.
I was fine with the UMP in the early days of it. But now that it is a FOR PROFIT organization I think its gone off track for the benefit of guys like me just racing for the fun of it.
The Summernationals are dominated and won by PROFESSIONAL late model drivers. But then they put that towards the National championship they make every tom dick and harry buy a membership for. Really? Thats real fair to the local level types that used to win them championships.
If UMP is gonna be used it should be for the mods and slm's not for us support classes that dont even have uniformed rules.
Its a fact that the fans in the stands come to see the top classes for the most part. So I do beleive we need the top classes. Dont know if a track would lure the casual fan with no driver connection to a track just running "support classes". No offense to support divisions I race in one and beleive they help pay the bills on the top classes by paying the same at the gate but racing for less at the pay window.
With that said UMP should bug out of the support class business and concentrate on the premier classes. Start developing rules that are more cost friendly that will help the long term survival of local racing.
I personally think the "local" racing should be different rules than what the touring guys run. why are local weekend racers running the same stuff as Moyer and Bloomquist? Those guys race for several thousand everytime they race. Not 1 thousand. Lol Like ive said before do local asphalt tracks around the country have weekly classes that allow the nascar cup boys to come drop by with their cup car and take the money?
Simple fact is I used to go to the track and watch everyday working folks run in all divisions, the winners and losers. Now the everyday working folk drive streetstocks and 4 cyls if the wanna be competitive. Because if u dont own a business or drive someone who does youre a after thought in the mods and lm's with few exceptions.
I myself do not think local weekend warrior racing needs a national sanction. If promoters arent smart enough to see the benefit of getting on the same page with other promoters in close proximity, then they shouldnt be promoting.
I was fine with the UMP in the early days of it. But now that it is a FOR PROFIT organization I think its gone off track for the benefit of guys like me just racing for the fun of it.
The Summernationals are dominated and won by PROFESSIONAL late model drivers. But then they put that towards the National championship they make every tom dick and harry buy a membership for. Really? Thats real fair to the local level types that used to win them championships.
If UMP is gonna be used it should be for the mods and slm's not for us support classes that dont even have uniformed rules.
Its a fact that the fans in the stands come to see the top classes for the most part. So I do beleive we need the top classes. Dont know if a track would lure the casual fan with no driver connection to a track just running "support classes". No offense to support divisions I race in one and beleive they help pay the bills on the top classes by paying the same at the gate but racing for less at the pay window.
With that said UMP should bug out of the support class business and concentrate on the premier classes. Start developing rules that are more cost friendly that will help the long term survival of local racing.
I personally think the "local" racing should be different rules than what the touring guys run. why are local weekend racers running the same stuff as Moyer and Bloomquist? Those guys race for several thousand everytime they race. Not 1 thousand. Lol Like ive said before do local asphalt tracks around the country have weekly classes that allow the nascar cup boys to come drop by with their cup car and take the money?
Simple fact is I used to go to the track and watch everyday working folks run in all divisions, the winners and losers. Now the everyday working folk drive streetstocks and 4 cyls if the wanna be competitive. Because if u dont own a business or drive someone who does youre a after thought in the mods and lm's with few exceptions.
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