Hypothetical question for sportsman racers

Doug

Doug

Announcer
After attending the sportsman race at the Springfield Mile this past weekend, I got to thinking, "Would it be possible to establish a uniform set of rules for the sportsman division?" The reason this question came to me is because of the large variety of cars that were competing. There were full framed cars, stock stub cars, stock bodies, fabricated (but not late model style) bodies, etc. I recall a few racers who have told me they really enjoyed racing sportsman, but they built modifieds so that they could take them anywhere and be legal.

Is the sportsman division too regional a division for a common set of rules to be adopted, or is it ready for someone to try to bring them together? Any thoughts?
 
Doug-

Hypothetically, yes its possible. All you have to do is get all the associated tracks to agree on one set of rules. And of course, the track owners/promoters will insist that the rules have to be written so as not to obsolete anyones cars or equipment.

Simple, no?

Tim
 
that is a problem with all class's if you could get a unform rule on all class from hornets to sprotsman I think you would see alot more racers racing friday saturday and a bigger turn out at special shows possible yes easy NO............. old cars would have to be grandfathered for like two years or something like that
 
As far as I`m concerned the sportsman division is becoming a very competative class........it would be nice to have a "uniform" set of rules......but the in lies the problem.......would "ALL" the track owners and promoters agree to such rules.Most owner/promoters want to keep us (sportsman drivers) at their respected tracks.JMO..........
 
Well doug

you are in pretty good with those guys at tcs and godfrey why dont you bring it up to them?? sounds like if we went to ecuallity in rules we would have alot better show of course you got to have trust worthly tech people too.....;)
 
lol

They already are the same rules at those 2 tracks..read em!

Tech has nothing to do with it...

Wiz hit the nail on the head,same thing i have been saying for years....would be nice to be able to run2...3 ..tracks a weekendunder the same rules like we use too!

But it wont happen,the promotors wont give enuff on the rules to loose the drivers they have!Only time the gain new is when a person gets tossed from one to another,or a driver moves up in class!Thats not a gain,still the same car count!

You wont see car counts at shows like there use to be ever again...no way shape or form!

Take b -town for example....big show they pull what?.....60...and this is no knock,just wont get the large car counts like we use to at tracks like white city and other tracks 10/15 years ago!(use to pull 150 easy for one class on a 2 day show)


Ive been raggin on this for years,and no promotor will listen.....


Best thing a promotor could do is......write a set of rules to fit the classes in the area......throw that crap out the window....well we have to keep cost down to get people into it.....and run a track that is set up to accomadate a class of cars that other guys can come and run on off nites,without paying extra fees!




PUT CARS IN THE PITS...U PUT BUTTS IN THE BLEACHERS!



PRETTY FLIPPIN SIMPLE!


Just like the nascar thing....this is no nock on wente)just my opinion......drop it...loose it...do whatever.....but get rid of the stupid 90 doller fee.....and before someone gets on here and makes the stupid comment about well..you get that extra insurance for that.......bull****....every track has secondary insurance...........its a must.....and they dont kick in till urs pays first,then u have to fight them to pay!

So dump the crap...open up the rules to fit the other tracks in the area.....make racing interesting and fun again....and cars will show up!

Racers dont need cheap classes to run....they can find the parts.....build the parts....do whatever....but they will find a way to race if that is what they want to do!

Also fix the damn payouts.....pay the people that spend the time to build there cars,run up front,make it worth there while....hand the cars that just want to go out and have fun running in the back a pitpass for next week,and split the remaining money between the frontrunners!You kill 2 birds with 1 stone...you reward the top drivers that want to run quick...they make a little money and keep coming back....and you also hand the guy that wants to just play....a pit pass and get him and his car back out on the track the following week....to buy gas...food..............and family sittin in the seats paying to watch!




Thats how you get people interested in moving up........the ones that want to just play...............stay down and still spend money!None of us will ever get rich doing this.............but it takes money to make money.............invest a little.......u get a little more!



Man....i could go on and on about these topics all day and nite....but would they listen?...........NO

So we are stuck with 12 cars in features.....very rarily if ever seeing a consi race!....2 heats and a feature and ur nite is done!



All it takes is tweakin the rules in like 3 or 4 spots...........and you have class's that cars can run on 2 to 3 nights a week!Dont take a rocket scientist to figure **** like this out!
 
Iw oukd personnly like to see them have uniform rules it canbe done lookat other classes in the area ,but a big gripe I have is make the sportsman look like sportsman not late models with skinny tires,male em when pull pull inthe gate you know by apperance theyare what they are ,knda like the sportsmanat macon and farmer city,and runem either with a better tire or less motor but maken uniform
 
rules

Three years ago Belleville and Highland had the same rules in the sportsman class. You had cars that had the option on saturdays to go to Peevley or Highland. Now since they have opened up their rules to allow the bigger valves the better clutches and e-mods, you seldom see any of the 26-28 cars from belleville trailer to highland. We have only one option and that is Belleville and Peevley. This is not a knock on Highland, B, town or TCS but it sure would be nice to be able to try different tracks on Saturday nights when there is 4 tracks running on sat. But to run with no chance of being competitive is not fair and most people won't even try
 
dirt hound, I never thought the day would come, but I agree with you 100%. Here's kinda what I'm thinking, in a nutshell (and this is just in the idea stage at this point). 2800lbs for 370 cid or smaller. 2900lbs for 371 or bigger. Stock type bodies (like Chad Day, Scott Stuppy, Gary Walker, etc.), stub cars and full framed cars equalized, E-mods, Berts, and undecided on rear end. The sportsman class could be just as big as the modified class if they had some uniform direction, and I believe just as entertaining. But to get a common direction, drivers from all different tracks would have to show enough interest to get the attention of their respective promotors, and realize that some give and take would be required.
 
NO SPOILER,WITH AAS THE TRASHDOG WOULD SAY Parachute rear ends that are fabricated not a peice of sheet metal
 
The idea you have sounds good Doug.If Berts and Brinns were used that would "almost" eliminate cheating in that area,E-Mods would be nice,the motor suggestion sounds agreeable but......you would have to have someone that knows how to pump the motors and good reliable Tech peeps to do this.

Take the rules for B-Town,they have (just my opinion)have pretty much covered every angel,when you go to B-Town you,for the most part knoww exactly what types of cars yer competein against.If "Doug`s Rules" resembled those rules with the addition of the motor rule thingy ya might be on to sumthing........again JMO.........
 
The rules Doug posted are quite similar to the rules we had for the class at BCR we called Pro Stock. Larry Martin, Jeff Parnell (former TCS racers), Dale Shearer, and myself assembled the rules. We looked at Highland, TCS, Allied and Fayette Co. to put together a class that would be fair to full framed as well as stubbed cars.

With BCR being an “outlaw” track. On any given night, besides our regulars, we had cars from different tracks in the St. Louis region (including Jacksonville and Macon).
Racing was always close and competitive and no one type of car dominated.

If anyone would like to look the rules over I would be glad to e-mail them to you.
 
First off, if you let them fab there own bodies, some guys are going to put take there car to the right guy, and have rake in the nose, and bends in the sides, either require stock bodies, or accept good looking sportsman cars. If you want sportsman/street stock cars to be able to race around, you will have to get all the tracks to permit tubular upper a arms, chevy frames with ford engines, vortech heads, no deck rule, roller rockers, stud girdles, aluminum or steel spools, and its questionible about the three link in place of stock upper trailing arms.

I know you are all saying what buisiness does this LM guy have telling us aobut sportsman cars. I build them, used to race them, and still stay very close to all that involves this class. I do not have alot of money, and am always concerned about the litle guy.
 
BUT DOUG WHY UNIFORM RULES FOR SPORTSMAN BUT NOT FOR CLASSES ABOVE OH WHAT'S THAT SANCTIONING BODY THE RUN AROUND HERE HELP ME OUT HERE
 
sportsman rules

I HAVE RACED SPORTSMAN CARS FOR MANY YEARS. I HAVE
BROUGHT UP THE SUBJECT OF UNIFIED RULES TO A
CERTAIN ORGANIZATION MANY TIMES AND THE BOTTOM LINE
HAS ALWAYS BEEN THIS: THEY COULD ACTUALLY CARE LESS WHERE YOU WANT TO RACE ON SAT. NIGHTS, (OR FRI.),
BECAUSE IT PUTS NO MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS, THIS IS STRICTLY A BUSINESS DECISION ON THEIR PART AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. IS THIS A GOOD DEAL TO THE RACER WHO WANTS TO TAKE PART IN OTHER SHOWS? NOT IN MY OPINION.
SO, DO I THINK THAT WE WILL EVER SEE UNIFIED RULES?
NO. TO MANY PROMOTERS AND ORGANIZATIONS WITH RULES
TOO FAR APART, AND NO ONE WILLING TO BUDGE AN INCH.
NOT TRYING TO BASH ANYONE, THIS IS JUST WHAT I'VE SEEN IN
MY YEARS OF RACING.


AS FAR AS SET OF RULES GO, IN MY OPINION, A SET SIMILAR
TO UMP MAKES THE MOST SENSE TO ME, BECAUSE THE DAYS OF
RACING THESE CARS ON JUNK YARD PARTS IS OVER, AND HAS BEEN FOR A WHILE.

EASY RULES THAT WOULD COVER THESE CARS FOR YEARS:
(MY OPINION ONLY):

E-MODS
ANY CAST IRON CYLINDER HEAD
BERT OR BRINN
NO. 1 PLUG IN LINE WITH UPPER BALL JOINT
ANY SINGLE CARB.
9" REAR END, NO BIRD CAGES
WEIGHT RULE (3000#)

THANX FOR READING.
 
rules

This is my opinion only

Rick you have it mostly right to my way of thinking.

But..... E-mods???????? we don't want to be modifieds with fenders, same with berts or brinns, or falcons.

Any cast iron head
3 or 4 link suspension
full frame
2800# 340 cu 0r less
3000# 360 cu
3100# 360+

triple disc clutch
stock trannys only no lightening
hydrolic cams only
2 barrell carbs 500 cfm
floaters
frame motor switching ( ford on a chevy frame etc)

You are right we have progressed from the Junk yard along time ago. But this is still supposed to be a learning level class, might be very advanced but still not to the level of the Latemodels.

I believe this class should have it's own identity but still be allowed to run some of the racing equipment that must be learned if a driver ever wants to move up.

what about motor rules? Flat tops only or are we gonna open that can of worms? Lets face it lots of money can be spent on a great motor but we need to keep the idea that there are drivers moving up from lower classes ( Pure Stock, Hornets) that don't need to drop a bundle their first year to be making shows.

I agree it would be great to be able to race anywhere with one car but unless we all give alittle and remember that this should be a Advanced Level car but still keep costs reasonable this class could have car counts of 36+ every night at every local track.

Al Boyce
 
I am yet to figure out why everyone does not want to run E-mods. People that run up front in the mod class, sell them very cheap. Rusty Griffaw, Mike Harrison, Marion Blankenship, Marty Smith, and I know alot more do, sell them really good condition for about $10. On one car that is a savings of $350 for just 4 tires. I ran alot of used tires when I ran E-mods. THANK ABOUT MONEY HERE. I know the Brinns, and Berts are high, but buy a gone through trans, and Triple disk, and you are spending more or about the same, and then heve more rules to regulate. Talk to an IMCA Modified guy, they have a ton of money wrapped up in thier drive train.
 
THE UMP TRACKS REALIZE, THAT THE SPORTSMAN AND 4CYL CLASS IS ALL THEY HAVE LEFT TO CONTROL, SO THEY AREN'T VERY WILLING TO DO ANYTHING LIKE THIS.

I THINK THEY SHOULD, IF THEY HAVE THE RACERS IN MIND. BUT, WE ALL KNOW ITS THEM FIRST!

I THINK PROMOTERS/ TRACKS OUGHT TO LET THEIR FACILITY AND THE WAY THE RUN IT KEEP THE CARS THERE NOT MAKING THERE RULES WHERE YOU HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO GO THERE CUZ YOUR CAR ISN'T LEGAL ANYWHERE ELSE.
 
I will stay away from the rules debate....I think we could make a very good racecar with a little from each rulebook.

I would like to say this, the track/promoter that is drawing the most cars kinda rules the roost. (this year Allied @ Belleville & Pevley) The places that are only bringing in 12 or so cars are the ones with really nothing to lose.

For example, if Highland was only drawing 13 cars while running e-mods, why not change that rule? You might make a few drivers unhappy (probably not enough to quit) but what if you drew 8 or 9 more cars each week. I know some of the rules are more complex than this but I think the principle is the same.

Some of the rules probably don't even matter that much. I have seen cars without tubular A's beat cars with them. I have seen cars with stock 9" rearends beat cars with 9" floaters. I have seen stock body cars beat ones with fabricated alum. bodies.


Just thoughts and observations,
Mike
 
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