Will they survive??

*** WARNING!! OPINION TO FOLLOW ***
***** DO NOT CONFUSE AS FACTS! *****

(damn lawyers)

Dean hit the nail on the head. Local tracks DO have to compete with Movie theaters, Ball Games, Casinos and the like for the publics' money. But the point that most promoters miss is that you dont have to make the public want to come to the races. You have to make them want to come BACK.

When a family of four goes to the movies or the ball game, they are treated to clean, modern facilities. The seats are comfortable, and the toilets wouldn't make a worker from the CDC puke. In the theaters, the sound system is top notch, and at ball games, an army of ushers are there to contain anyone who gets a snoot full of beer and gets out of hand. They have an enjoyable time and will return when time and money allow.

Now take that same family. Let say that they decide to go to the races for the first time, because there are no good movies playing.

They have a hard time figuring out where to park, because nobody is directing traffic. They take there seats, but the bleachers look like they are going to fall over. They are new to racing, and they dont understand whats happening because the P.A. speakers in their section have been broke for a month.

They are covered with dirt or mud because the promoter wont prep the track very well. They use the bathrooms and find out that the promotor expect one roll of paper to last all night. and so on. They leave disgusted and wont be back.

Die hard race fans will put up with almost anything at the races. But I wonder what the percentage of first time visitors to a track who return in the following weeks are...

Tim
 
Agreed

You made a very good point!! I never really thought of attending other events in the same way I look at attending the races. I would love to sit in a comfortable seat, have tp for the bathroom break, and not have to spend 2 hours cleaning myself and my clothes when I get home from the races!
 
I’ve heard a lot of good things about that Benton track. It’s too far away from me… could y’all move it a little closer… Uhhhh… well… serious thoughts to follow.

I think the dilemma the track owners/promoters are facing is not that there are too many tracks but too few cars to be spread out between them.

My informal and unscientific research has lead me to believe that well over half of the butts parked in the bleachers on any given night belong to spec-tatters that are associated with a particular car. I would guess that up 60% + of the normal bleacher inhabitants, at any weekly event are friends, family, neighbors, co-workers, etc of a driver, car owner, or crew member of a specific car. If the car that they have an association to isn’t racing or not racing at that track, most of them butts will be parked somewhere else on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday night.

More cars = more fans in the stands.

In order to get more cars the cost associated with motorsports has to kept in check. Currently it’s out of control. Keeping the cost down would allow more people to race that don’t now. Guys that only race part time now due to finances could afford to race every week.

Keeping rule consistent between tracks or sanctioning bodies would help as well. Within an easy drive of STL we have UMP, IMCA, NASCAR, and Allied all making rules that don’t really coincide with one another that well. If a race team commits to a set of rule for their favorite Saturday night and then would like to race somewhere else on Friday or Sunday, it can be difficult. A team should expect to change chassis set-ups and gears for a different track, but if they have to use a different brand of tire, add or remove a bunch of weight, change crabs, or even change engines… it’s not going to happen, or not regularly anyway.

BTW… If you are reading this your not what I call the normal fan. Diehard fans (if time, money, and the spouse allowed) would be happy to spend Friday, Saturday, and Sunday with their butts parked on a bleacher somewhere. Wouldn’t bother us to drive a couple hours to do it either. There are not enough of us to support all the local tracks. Local racing needs more casual fans attending on regularly basis to support all the tracks we have now.
 
Fans in the stands is the only answer. How to get them is the million dollar question. The hardcore fans, like all those who read this message board, will always be there just because they like racing. The one's we have to get are those who can't decide between the movies or races. It's hard for us to figure that out because we're all more interested in racing than movies.

It has to be more than just a race, it has to be an event. I think maybe the biggest overlooked marketing tool is kids. If kids get excited about going to the races, parents will bring them. Have school nights, discounts or giveaways for good grades, contests for kids, ball team night, etc. The more you can do to make it fun for kids, the more will come. They'll go tell their buddies and maybe bring another one next week. Do you know how many trips to the consession stand kids make! Trust me, I know.

Racers need to help out as well. Most kids don't get to go in the pits afterward because it is usually too late. They would love to see their favorite driver and his car up close and maybe get an autograph and picture. Bring some cars and drivers to the grandstands before the races. Make it a weekly thing with different cars each week, maybe last weeks winners or something. Do you know how many new fans a driver can make just by spending an hour or so. If drivers aren't willing to do that much, they can't complain.

The answer can't be to raise prices or cut purses. That will just eliminate more fans and cars. If we can't get more people in the seats, promoters and racers will both be out of business. Racers always want to jump on the promoters but they can't do it all. We are all in it together. What benefits one will benefit all.
 
The idea of ATPR or any track alternating sprints and late models each Sunday sounds good in theory, but I'd be concerned that it led to more scheduling confusion for the drivers and fans. Just my opinion, but staying with the same basic classes each week would help add consistency, especially if the goal is to appeal to new fans.

One other thought: I've always thought it would be a great fan-friendly service for every track to print a cheap, no-frills version of a program each week that included a lot of basic information: point standings with driver names, numbers and hometowns, previous track champions, definition of the flags, the order of the night's events, how lineups are determined, a schedule of special events for the season, a description of each class and a way to contact the track's promoter. It could cost almost nothing if a sponsor (like a quick-copy business) prints it each week.

A lot of promoters nationwide seem to forget that they really are in a battle with air-conditioned movie theaters and other events that are much quieter, less dusty and do things that cater to their customers -- anything we can do, as promoters or fans, to make race tracks a more desirable form of entertainment helps the entire sport.
 
The only way to get the cars to come is payout. That is kind of a dangerous answer being that the trackis already in trouble, but the fact is that without spending the money on the purse you will never get the fans in the stands and you'll never get above the water. Saturday night is completely saturated in both the St. Louis and Kansas City areas. There is no way for a yet to be established race track will steal the thunder from a consistent performer. Especially if the track is farther away from the core of the fans. i.e. You aren't going to be able to compete with Pevely or Mont. County. They are closer and have now established programs. To the east you have Highland and Mt. Vernon also diffusing things.
 
Millsey, I'm glad you posted what I've been thinking. Running a racetrack is like any other business, it needs profits & positive advertisement. We are lucky to have so many tracks in this area to choose from or, attend them all. I would hate to see any of them fold.
 
I really dont think the movie show or ball game example is comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

Movies have millions spent on them for just two hours (if your lucky) of entertainment. Stock cars, even the entire count on a saturday night, wont even begin to come close to that amount. Movies are professionally marketed around the world, creating multi million dollar returns on the investment. The saturday night stock car show has a few thousand spent on it. One movie commercial exceeds the stock car tracks entire budget for a whole season 100 fold. Movies and movies theaters make money by showing the same events over and over again, stock car tracks dont have instant replay, you got to be looking right at the action when it happens or you missed it and forget ever seeing it again.

As far as the professional sporting event, the athletes are paid millions, and in return they generate their salaries ten fold for the team owners. I asked Randy Karraker why the Cards kept Maguire when he was past it, and his answer was "money, the jersey sales alone at the home games pay his salary, the rest is profit. The Cards need his name on a jersey, they make a fortune on it." Name me a local stock car driver on the dirt circuit who has that kind of value? There aint one, pure and simple. Yeah, there are guys who are well known in racing circles, but dont kid yourself, they are not big money draws by a long shot. If theyre lucky they may make some pocket change for themselves selling t-shirts, but it wont amount to squat in big league terms. Take the product as well. A big time baseball game is broadcast across the country, generating millions in revenue for the league. You think Riverbend Sports is doing that kind of business? Not only no, but He!! no! It aint even close.

So its no wonder that when you go see a movie, or go to a big league ball game, that you have excellent facilities, and ample parking. The money is there to pay for it, it is simple economics.

There is a big league for stock cars, and its called Winston Cup. Or the Busch series. Or ARCA. As far as the local dirt track, its the same as playing in a slo-pitch softball league if your a baseball fan. Some leagues are more competitive than others, like wannabees arent as competitive as Late Models or Modifieds, but at the end of the day its still amateur racing, not professional. You watch the pros, but you play in the amateurs. Dont start thinking your some kind of big shot who deserves money for what you do, cause if you did, you wouldnt be playing in the slo-pitch league, you would be out there with the big league professionals. I hope the local tracks dont close, but when I hear drivers complaining they dont get paid for racing, it just makes me want to shake them and ask them who the he!! they think they are, cause if you really want to get paidto race, then go where you do get paid. Winston Cup. Busch. ARCA. WoO. No excuses either, cause theres plenty who race at that level, now isnt there?

In the meantime, accept that your not a Kenny, or a Bobby, or a Dale, or a Tony. Your Kevin, or Ed, or Tim, Bill, Troy or Todd, and you race in the bush leagues, not the pros. And the promoters at the local tracks arent robbing you blind, they are doing what they can to stay afloat, and they arent promoting Winston Cup or any of the other aforementioned series. They are promoting small time local dirt track racing, and it doesnt line their pockets either. At the end of it, we do this for fun, not money, and anybody who thinks theres money to be had at the local dirt track level is trying to squeeze blood from a stone.
 
John Layne, you are wrong, wrong, wrong

Just because you payout more money is absolutely NO GUARENTEE you are going to make things better at your track.

I don't, and never will, understand you philosophy on that. It doesn't make any (cents) at all.

The problem with most tracks isn't attracting racers, it's putting people's butts in the seats. If you pay out a bunch more money and you aren't putting a bunch of additional people in the stands, where are you coming out better??? That's silly...

I've read several of your posts where you think the only way to better things is to pay the racers more money.. I personally think you have no idea what goes into running a track these days or you wouldn't be making such statements.

I go back to my original statement... There are only so many racing dollars out there... The same way as there is only so many football dollars out there, or baseball. Do you think paying the players more money is the answer also??? It's exactly the same thing.

Racing is entertainment. Period.. If you look at it in any other way you are lost..
 
Exactly. I ENTERTAIN MYSELF by racing, I dont do it to entertain others. You pay for your hobbies, your hobbies dont pay you.
 
t.nie, everything you said on this topic is insulting to racers and fans. The rest of us are discussing an imprtant issue afecting the sport. Were in the book you posted was the ideas to get more people to come to the races and support our sport.

I didn't get to race last nite I missed getting my car done on time by a hour or two, but I got my Mom to go with my Dad and sister they took my son and my niece. Mom had quit going because of the bs that was happening at tracks we used to race at. Getting all the family and close friends back to the tracks is a way each person can make a difference in revitalizing weekly racing.

If every one does a little, alot can happen.
 
This is just a thought if anyone would like to comment about it. Would it help if someone stepped up and developed a racing series to include all the tracks who would like to participate, almost like ump but just between missouri and ill. Like call it the missouri illonois racing association(mira). Where you would have set rules for sprints, late models, and modifieds and run whatever the stock class the tracks want to run. Like the missouri illonois clash this past week where four diffrent tracks were involved. I dont know if it would work but its something i thougt about for years why these two sister states track promoters get together sit down and say how can we work together to try to make these tracks better and get the racers and fans more involved. I know its one of those situations where you have to look out for your own back but hey sometimes teamwork always works out for the best. Hey but what do i know just my thought.
 
Dean, your a classic example of a bush league racer who thinks he should be able to make money racing at his local dirt track. Of course you think its an insult, because most of what I had to say applies to you and your attitude that the promoter isnt doing enough to fill your pockets.

if you take care of your racers they will bring you a crowd. I do not think cuttling the pay at a track will ever help keep it open. The tracks are always having to raise pit passes, and cosession prices on the racer, cutting his pay compounds that. The cost of parts, repairs, engines, and chassis are always increasing. If the payout does not increase with the passes and costs, alot of drivers will be forced out, and that will hurt the back gate as well as the fan base.
Click to expand...

Yeah? So what? Cant afford to race Dean? Thats the core of the problem for you, isnt it? Well, Dean, nobody said that you had a right to go racing in the first place, so get over it. Or find the funds. I stand by everything I said, that there is a place where drivers make huge cash, and its not in the slo-pitch league. You can whine all you want about racers being forced out, but the truth is that only some are being forced out, and there are more joining every week. How many cars did Highland have last night? Last week? Charlie isnt really doing anything special to promote the regular sat night at Highland (like RAISING THE PAY, which you always say is the cure for all ills, mainly YOURS) yet he runs a good show and the counts just keep going up. Not for any other reason than the local community loves racing, and a lot of local people actually want to race and are prepared to fund their programs themselves. Amazing aint it?

Heres an answer for your problem Dean. Go find sponsors, get some cash into your program, and stop dumping your racing budget problems off on somebody else. Maybe if you go find your own funds, then you can start showing up regularly and help your local track with your huge fan base. At the end of it, its your responsibility to fund your program, nobody elses. If you hadnt noticed, the main thrust of this thread was that the promoters your way arent lying when they say they are struggling. Well, heres another piece of information for you, its called survival of the fittest. I hate to see tracks close, but whoever shuts first only creates more business for the remaining tracks. I know that sounds harsh, and it is, but it is also a fact of being in business. If a track shuts, then it will only strengthen the ones who survive. I wish no one any ill, but the bottom line is that if there is not enough support to keep all of the tracks open and running, then something has got to give. Just like if you cant afford to race a LM, then decide what you can afford and do that. I race a hornet, cause thats what my budget stretches to right now. But I sure as heck aint whining that its somebody elses responsibility to fund it.
 
You can't see the big picture, your to focused on your desire to put down and argue. We all know t.nie and I agree about nothing, lets not make this about me or you.

This whole thread is about tracks and promoters needing more butts in the bleachers and cars with crews at the back gate. Three or four years ago almost all nice tracks were having fairly full grandstands, now most tracks are having smaller crowds. Most of the good saturday nite tracks and some of the friday nite tracks have quality enough racing to deserve a full granstand, but there not full. This year I have only been to I-55 several times, and SFCR once, I don't know how good the show is anywhere else this year, but they have good racing at those two tracks every week.

I am not on here complaining about what any track pays I race were I want to, and I think I-55 pays great. Whatever track you go to as a fan you missing out on the great show at another one.
 
In England, there used to be 4 divisions of soccer. Div I, II, III, IV. Div I was the big league teams, all the top players, big money, down to Div IV, which were the small local teams playing against each other. All competed in a tournament, called the FA cup, for the honor of FA cup champion. The FA then decided that they needed to restructure the league, cutting each Division down, and creating a "Premiere" Division at the top of the best and most heavily supported and funded teams. They sold TV rights to cable and satellite companies, and made a huge marketing effort for the Premier League. They claimed it would strengthen the league as a whole, having a Premiereship that was all powerful and revenue generating. Well, what actually happened was that the Premier Teams just ran away with everything, made huge money, and the bottom two divisions disappeared.

What does this have to do with stock car racing in the midwest? Everything. The growth of big league racing (WC, Busch, etc) has drawn a lot of the fans who used to sit in the stands away from the track and into their own living rooms, sitting in front of their big screen TV's. Why go to the local track for your racing fix, when racing is on the television day and night. I remember when there was no racing at all on tv, so the only way you could watch was to go to the track, that is no longer true. So whether people like it or not, there is no longer the same demand for dirt track racing that there used to be. That is something you cannot change, and while it is great for WC, it ****s for the local promoters. This is economics, it is the way these things go. Times change, and demand changes too.

See the big picture? I see it better than you do. Yes, there is a great show to be had at the local dirt track, but in the eyes of the average entertainment seeker, the WC show on TV is a much more attractive option than going to the local dirt track.
 
What about....

What are the different figures in fan attendance numbers for a fan appreciation night at a track such as SFCR comparing to a regular night?

It has long been my belief that you have to keep the front gate ticket prices down to draw the crowd. It seems as though the tracks keep raising those prices every year in an effort to make up for the lost fans of yester-year. I can't help but think that they are going the wrong direction.

I hear alot of folks making the remark that they "may go tonight because it is $5 night". This should say something to the promoters. No, they don't have to drop to $5 every night but it would have to make a difference if they dropped $3-4 dollars off the tickets, and letting older kids in free wouldn't be a bad idea either(alot of kids bring their parents to the track you know,lol).

A couple of parents with two kids betwenn six and twelve have to pay around $35-40 dollars for an evening at the races. For less money, they can go watch "The Incredible Hulk" and "2Fast-2Furious", and get occupy the same amount of time filling up their saturday night.

My suggestion would be to gather some of the good ideas from these pages and to also find someone who you can get to be an anonymous guest at your track. You need to find a non-diehard fan, like my wife (LOL). If the bathrooms aren't good enough, she won't be back-If she spent too much money out of this weeks check, she'll find something cheaper to do. If she wasn't entertained enough, she'll find someplace else to entertain herself. If she don't go to the track, I stay HOME!

Sorry for the book........:)
 
Good In-put

Millsey: You started a good column here. I have read the various opinions and ideas the past few days off of this thread and have got alot of good ideas. I wish other promoters would communicate on here because were all in this together in an attempt to get the fans in the stands. It takes so much to run one of these tracks especially with the high cost of the event insurance. I have been able to save on event insurance this year compared to the past rates and I want to pass it on to other promoters. Contact Marvin Lloyd of The Commercial Insurance Group in Tulsa, Oklahoma. He was able to save me some money compared to other carriers and he offers even better coverage for your events. This has been a good discussion with several different views and that is what it takes as we all work through these tough economic times. Sooner or later we will find the right combination. Thanks in advance

Jerry Wolsey
Auto Tire and Parts Racepark
Benton, Missouri
 
Seems like the $5 nights would work at a track, but even better would be to make it during the same week each month -- maybe advertise the first Saturday night of the month as $5 night, or the second weekend of each month as "kids-get-in-free" nights. There might even be a way to reward your drivers and crews, too -- how about one night a month when you can buy two pit passes and get one free?

A friend of mine once convinced me of a great idea about how to buy newspaper ads, too -- he promoted a track that bought ads right next to the movie theater ads and concert ads. It might be one way to get people to your track that might normally be inclined to see a movie instead.
 
Kids getting in free would be a great idea. First you get the whole family there, and I don't know if any of you have kids, but mine eat constantly. The track would more than make up its lost profits from admission on concession stand fares! Think about it.
 
We do that all the time at SFCR

I'm constantly giving away kids tickets for various events at SFCR.. We've long lived by the philosophy that we MUST treat the kids good in order for the parents to be able to come and enjoy. We have $5 night once a month there also. Plus we have a playground for kids.
 
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