I agree, at Highland years ago, anyone who was involved in the yellow, whether it was your fault or not, was sent to the back. These 'judgment calls' are what's making these tracks/promoters look bad. I believe at Eldora, the rule is still whoever is involved in the yellow is sent to the back. Even on a start, if you are involved in a yellow on the first lap, there is no complete restart for you, you go to the back.
Another ALLIED "Golden Shower"
- Thread starter armygirl
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racefantoo
New Member
My experience with Allied has been that they have always had an adversarial attitude toward the racer, they make the rules, they enforce them or not as they wish and if you don't like it, tough.
just ask one of them a question or ask then to explain the rational for something in the rule book and you most always will either get ignored or get a smart *** answer.
The only thing they have ever been consistient on is:
If someone not in the click does something remotely questionable they all jump all over it, but if one of their pets does something, nobody ever sees it.
Thats the way its been forever, but don't forget the motto: "Of the Racer and for the Racer" LOL
just ask one of them a question or ask then to explain the rational for something in the rule book and you most always will either get ignored or get a smart *** answer.
The only thing they have ever been consistient on is:
If someone not in the click does something remotely questionable they all jump all over it, but if one of their pets does something, nobody ever sees it.
Thats the way its been forever, but don't forget the motto: "Of the Racer and for the Racer" LOL
jclewis67
Member
Frodo
I was there. I have been a Don Klein fan since the days when my Dad used to race with him. On this instance, Don did spin Burrell intentionally. I understand that Don has nothing more to prove in his career, but he could not cleanly get around Burrell, so he put him around. I have heard people say it was the inside wall that was at fault, but if Don could not make a clean pass on the inside, the wall shouldn't come into play because he shouldn't have been that low. Don comes from the old school... which is if I can't get by him, I'll give him a nudge to let him know I am there. Unfortunately, the nudge wasn't a nudge when he stood on the gas pedal and saw Burrell around. The biggest issue here is that he was placed back in his spot. It was beyond me why he received his spot back. I do believe that favortism is shown at Belleville. The sad part is that so many drivers and fans are fed up with it, that I am not sure it's repairable.
I have been going to Belleville for about 6 years now, and in that time I have gained a great deal of respect for Tom Smallwood. I do not personally know him, but I have spoken to him in passing. He is a super nice guy and if he is upset about the way things are shaking out, then they must be bad. I look foreward to watching Tom at Tri-City next year.
BTW, I am not bashing Don Klein, but if he continues the path he is on, he will surely win every feature at Bellville when there is nobody else there to race with him.
Jeff Lewis
I was there. I have been a Don Klein fan since the days when my Dad used to race with him. On this instance, Don did spin Burrell intentionally. I understand that Don has nothing more to prove in his career, but he could not cleanly get around Burrell, so he put him around. I have heard people say it was the inside wall that was at fault, but if Don could not make a clean pass on the inside, the wall shouldn't come into play because he shouldn't have been that low. Don comes from the old school... which is if I can't get by him, I'll give him a nudge to let him know I am there. Unfortunately, the nudge wasn't a nudge when he stood on the gas pedal and saw Burrell around. The biggest issue here is that he was placed back in his spot. It was beyond me why he received his spot back. I do believe that favortism is shown at Belleville. The sad part is that so many drivers and fans are fed up with it, that I am not sure it's repairable.
I have been going to Belleville for about 6 years now, and in that time I have gained a great deal of respect for Tom Smallwood. I do not personally know him, but I have spoken to him in passing. He is a super nice guy and if he is upset about the way things are shaking out, then they must be bad. I look foreward to watching Tom at Tri-City next year.
BTW, I am not bashing Don Klein, but if he continues the path he is on, he will surely win every feature at Bellville when there is nobody else there to race with him.
Jeff Lewis
I agree whole-heartedly. I was in the stands near the pits by turn 2. While I didn't get a close-up view of the incident, I definitely saw the 28 hit the 10 hard, flatten his tire, and send him spinning. When the officials lined up the cars with the 28 out front, I heard other drivers and fans in those stands all saying the same thing... These are just some of the comments I heard where I was sitting:
"You gotta be kidding me..."
"What is this <censored>?"
"If I had done that that, I'd be in the back or parked."
"Are they that freaking blind?"
Hopefully Mark will run Tri-City next year when he goes back to a full schedule. I'd rather go watch him there.
it looks like everyone has nothing but negative things to say about allied. i would never wish for any track to close, but hopefully this thread is a wake-up call for the track's owners/promoters. they are going to keep getting negative feedback, like this, & probably lose more drivers & fans until something is done. hopefully we will see a change in the near future.
Brandon Paul
Free agent score guy
That's precisely the rule we have at Pike.
Brandon Paul
Free agent score guy
For the record, I got hired at Pike by answering a help wanted post on this site.
Cathy Motley made the comment earlier this year that this is the first year that they've had no scorers attached to any of our race teams.
As far as being a race fan first, I wasn't even a Pike fan for very long before I started as a scorer. I didn't even attend my first race at the "Midwest's Fastest 1/6th mile Thrill Zone" until about mid-season last year.
Then, how do you train these people to be an official. Baseball has UMP school, Football officials are trained and most hockey refs get training. As far as I know there is no training program for officials..
Oh, it's definitely been training on the fly for me.
Frodo
Frodo, you spent a lot a time saying nothing. It was simple- Klein spun the leader. No one is debating that! Leader crashes. Now tell me where judgment comes in. I never said he did it intentionally nor do I beleive that but intent doesnt matter. THEY CHEATED for Klein!
I watch Billy because its funny. He even tells his dad where to run on the track during the race! Dont beleive me. Watch him.
Frodo, you spent a lot a time saying nothing. It was simple- Klein spun the leader. No one is debating that! Leader crashes. Now tell me where judgment comes in. I never said he did it intentionally nor do I beleive that but intent doesnt matter. THEY CHEATED for Klein!
I watch Billy because its funny. He even tells his dad where to run on the track during the race! Dont beleive me. Watch him.
Its funny you mention that, because I noticed the same thing this past week. I guess it would be a difficult labor day party when you have to explain to your father why you put him to the rear. How can the officials also be expected to make a FAIR, JUDGMENT call when at the next allied meeting the guy whose car got HYJACKED by the inside wall is sitting at the head table?
dirtcrazy23
dirtcrazy23
I wonder what effect having the head flagman on the ground on the front stretch has on the calls that are made; typically the Lead Flagmen is up in the air where he can see all of the track and be able to help make calls if needed.
I think they should put the flagstand on the opposite side of the track up in the air where the lead flagger can see everything on a track the size of Belleville. JMO but I think if you had another set of impartial eyes looking from a diiferent angle some of these missed calls would be overturned.
I just think that the corner flagmen at Belleville (impartial or not) just don't get a great view of what actually happens, whether it be other people standing in the corners, the concrete wall or having to watch out for oncoming cars both on the racing surface and in the pits.
I think they should put the flagstand on the opposite side of the track up in the air where the lead flagger can see everything on a track the size of Belleville. JMO but I think if you had another set of impartial eyes looking from a diiferent angle some of these missed calls would be overturned.
I just think that the corner flagmen at Belleville (impartial or not) just don't get a great view of what actually happens, whether it be other people standing in the corners, the concrete wall or having to watch out for oncoming cars both on the racing surface and in the pits.
wackymac19
Member
Moonflow
Funny you brought this up because Steve and his crew feel like Allied Screws them all the time. Like the flat tire in the heat race and Allied didnt wait for him !! Sportsman National same thing flat tire at the start of the heat race had to run semi to make the feature (Steve says Allied screw him) so your thought process is wrong !!!!! Not saying bad calls are not made there only human not like most of the people on here that never make a mistake!!!!! Moonflow send your letter in to be offical Ill be waiting because I know you and everybody on this post would like to be one!!!!!
Last thing If your not Allied voting members why complain. Voting members choose who they elect for the board to rep. the racers. If interested in be a voting member call me and tell you how to get -r-done. Michael Mcginnitey (314) 608-8386
Officals letter can be mailed to
Allied Auto Racing Assoc.
3929 Summertime
St Charles,MO 63304
NOW IF ALL YOU WANT A CHANGE !!! NOW YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!!!!!
50 years of racing
Funny you brought this up because Steve and his crew feel like Allied Screws them all the time. Like the flat tire in the heat race and Allied didnt wait for him !! Sportsman National same thing flat tire at the start of the heat race had to run semi to make the feature (Steve says Allied screw him) so your thought process is wrong !!!!! Not saying bad calls are not made there only human not like most of the people on here that never make a mistake!!!!! Moonflow send your letter in to be offical Ill be waiting because I know you and everybody on this post would like to be one!!!!!
Last thing If your not Allied voting members why complain. Voting members choose who they elect for the board to rep. the racers. If interested in be a voting member call me and tell you how to get -r-done. Michael Mcginnitey (314) 608-8386
Officals letter can be mailed to
Allied Auto Racing Assoc.
3929 Summertime
St Charles,MO 63304
NOW IF ALL YOU WANT A CHANGE !!! NOW YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!!!!!
50 years of racing
Michael, word on the street is that this is one of the reasons Spanky was suspended (and ultimitely quit) for this. He was told by Springer that night after Steve complainted about it. You guys lost your best official. He wasnt politicol.
I didnt start this post because I want ALLIED to go away. If ALLIED takes note of these items they can fix it. I have herd others speak of the attitudes of ALLIED board members and officials. The tone of your post representts that as well.
Well, if you sit there and say "that call was OK; we are doing a good job" then you are doomed. As I see it I am doing you a favor by pointing out the obvious.
BTW Last time I looked people who arent registered to vote can still voice there opinion.
I think the fact of the matter is no official has given a LOGICAL reason for the call that was made. It just gets turned into a "if you can do it better, lets see it". Stand up for the call you make and take fault for a BOGUS call, and not with a BOGUS explanation. Consistency and fairness is the issue, because i guarantee the next time someone gets into the inside wall and takes out another car, that car will be put the back.
wackymac19
Member
Amy
First off your spreading rumors and not facts Spanky was suspended and has not quit !! He was gone friday because of his work and was at pevely flagging. Are we allways right no we make our far of mistakes but our people we have do the best that they can !!!! Are we perfect NO but we are trying to do the best and we have several people that bash Spanky also but the kid trying to a good job and he has made some mistake.He still learning. That not an easy job!! Ive been around racing for along time and one thing I have discovered was no matter where at the race track you sit it has a different veiw!!!
Amy thanks for the the comments and trust me when I say we as the board really work hard on trying to make it a better place and I know it doesnt allways seem like it but we are really for the racer!!!! Yes sometimes it gets a little political !!!We work hard as board to make thing better!!!! The work that goes into the sportman Nationals is a lot getting sponsor and crossing all the t`s and dotting the i`s !We do it for the racer.I became a board member to make a difference. Maybe next year will be at belleville with something extra for the sportmans and pure street another money show !!! THANKS Michael
First off your spreading rumors and not facts Spanky was suspended and has not quit !! He was gone friday because of his work and was at pevely flagging. Are we allways right no we make our far of mistakes but our people we have do the best that they can !!!! Are we perfect NO but we are trying to do the best and we have several people that bash Spanky also but the kid trying to a good job and he has made some mistake.He still learning. That not an easy job!! Ive been around racing for along time and one thing I have discovered was no matter where at the race track you sit it has a different veiw!!!
Amy thanks for the the comments and trust me when I say we as the board really work hard on trying to make it a better place and I know it doesnt allways seem like it but we are really for the racer!!!! Yes sometimes it gets a little political !!!We work hard as board to make thing better!!!! The work that goes into the sportman Nationals is a lot getting sponsor and crossing all the t`s and dotting the i`s !We do it for the racer.I became a board member to make a difference. Maybe next year will be at belleville with something extra for the sportmans and pure street another money show !!! THANKS Michael
Preach all you want, but as long as we hear BS excuses for BS calls like Don Hoener gave early in this thread, Allied will continue to look like a bunch of fools...
If you guys were a REAL sanctioning body, you'd have said "We messed up. We gave Klein the spot back because his relative was the flagman in that corner and didn't want his dad to go to the back. We'll fix that problem."
Instead, you look like a bunch of morons and you will continue to until you show fairness.
If you guys were a REAL sanctioning body, you'd have said "We messed up. We gave Klein the spot back because his relative was the flagman in that corner and didn't want his dad to go to the back. We'll fix that problem."
Instead, you look like a bunch of morons and you will continue to until you show fairness.
#9_kleine_fan
Mrs #9 - Melissa Kleine
I know this is an Allied bashing thread, and I'm not in any way sticking up for any calls they have made, but I do want to give credit where credit is due.
2 weeks ago, when Aaron's front end got smashed, Richie Standridge was the only official that came out to see if Aaron's car was still raceable. He tried pushing it down, and then pulling it off. It just wasn't working. This past weekend, when Aaron was pulling out of the infield after the feature, Richie came over to the car to tell him good job. Political as it may be, he didn't let past experiences stop him. I just wanted to say Thanks and we appreciate it!
2 weeks ago, when Aaron's front end got smashed, Richie Standridge was the only official that came out to see if Aaron's car was still raceable. He tried pushing it down, and then pulling it off. It just wasn't working. This past weekend, when Aaron was pulling out of the infield after the feature, Richie came over to the car to tell him good job. Political as it may be, he didn't let past experiences stop him. I just wanted to say Thanks and we appreciate it!
smaldirt28
Well-Known Member
I will second that comment. Richie is a very good guy and a great official. He is one of the few that i see that will turn and watch cars all the way around the track instead of just in his corner. He does a very excellent job. And i am not on here to bash all of the Allied Officials. We get along with quite a few of them out there. Richie, Troutman, Ralph, Derek, and Danny Deeper. Allied in my eyes is not a complete failure and 50 years of racing proves that. It is just that the main part of Allied can't make consistant calls, or even reason with you about a certain situation. Once one person does something that they normally wouldn't do all of a sudden you are a bad person and they hold that grudge on you. Unless you are a "Favorite".
Allied has done a great job too with the Sportsman Fall Nationals. No other track has stepped up to that type of level for the sportsmans. Although Tri City is having there first annual Sportsman Race in 2 weeks. Not the kind of pay out Allied gives out but you have to start somewhere and it looks like a great start to many more years too me.
And to Mike Mcginnitey's comment about putting in for an officiating job. I would love to be a main flagman. I gaurentee that i would catch plenty of the calls without having to have others radio to me and say what they saw and mix up the situation. Yeah i will not say that it is an easy job but i will say that you all make it seem so much harder than it really is. Yeah you have to hear the complaining from other drivers, pit crews, and fans when you make a call that was correct that they didn't like because it was over them or there favorite person. The job is also a "Thankless Job" but someone has to do it. As long as you pay attention to whats going on and talking civilly with people over a situation instead of arguing back and forth with them you will do a good job. Do i want to fill out an application for the position????? Heck NO!. Do i think i would do a good job and be fair with calls???? Of Coarse!
I haven't really commented on the orginal post but i will say that i don't agree with the call made. I like Klien and his whole family. But i did see what happened and yes he did deserve to go to the back. But he didn't. Nothing we can change about it now.
There are many reasons though for me leaving. Yes, Allied is the main reason but my others are: I have been racing mainly Belleville for 9 years and i am ready for a change, Tri City is closer to home, Tri City's weekly payout is double that of belleville's, and wanting to get out of the little bullring racing even though it can be fun at times. So those are the main reasons for me not returning to Belleville starting this week.
Sorry once again for the long novel but i just wanted to put in my up to date thought's and opinion on this subject. Good luck too all this weekend.
Tom
wackymac19
Member
Tom thanks for the 9 years of racing at belleville. You have had some great runs there and your competion will be missed by Allied ,fans and drivers !!!
GOOD LUCK TO YOU TOO !!!!!
Michael
GOOD LUCK TO YOU TOO !!!!!
Michael
SignMaster
Member
Like I mentioned in an earlier post........I only really replied to say that the title of this post made me spit my soda across my desk when I saw it from laughter.
My recollection of Belleville was that it was really kinda small for stock cars. I mean its been 20 yrs since ive been there, but thats what I remember about it. It was clean and all ( for a track) and im sure its still a nice track, but I'd say from reading all of this.....its kinda like UFO's .....in that EVERYONE cant be "seeing things"....there must be a problem. So maybe Allied will "look in the mirror" and do the right thing from now on. .
My recollection of Belleville was that it was really kinda small for stock cars. I mean its been 20 yrs since ive been there, but thats what I remember about it. It was clean and all ( for a track) and im sure its still a nice track, but I'd say from reading all of this.....its kinda like UFO's .....in that EVERYONE cant be "seeing things"....there must be a problem. So maybe Allied will "look in the mirror" and do the right thing from now on. .
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