Attention Hornet Drivers

Crash 9

Yes but this might discourage people from making their cars look good. At I-55 the pro 4's are racing for bragging rights only so I don't blame you for spending only $600 on your car. Most of the fans in the stands think this class is just a joke or something to laugh at. If your car looks good then people will take this class more seriously. I just bought a single cam Neon that cost $650 just for the car, I don't see how I will be able to keep the cost under $1,000 to build it race ready.



MY cost to build one of my cars :

$500 good running car (1990-95)
$300 Roll cage
$200 new tires (cant win at Highland w/bald tires)
$200 Vynal (numbers & sponsers)
$25 chain (for doors & towing)
$20 Roll cage pading
$100 Removible steeringwheel
$20 1in lugnuts
Total: $1365.00
This does not include seat, seat belts,& fire ex. and any car you buy will have things wrong that you have to replace before you race it..
 
Eric G.

RaCiNReDnEcK said:
What if I have magical parts that change whenever you look at them??? This is exactly why we have rules meetings in person to talk about instead of back and forth arguement on the internet. But I guess if I will add to this conv...... Still missing the big part in teching hornets, do you think the tech guy knows the exact size of stock saturn/cavalier/eclipse/...w/e kind of 4cyl. to stand there and tell you that you are illegal. First the person claiming would probably have to come up with stock specs for the cam, valves, PCM, and would have to have sufficient evidence. Because I sure as hell wouldnt know the difference between a stock cam and an aftermarket cam by just looking at it. As for the rest I will just save it for the rules meetings.
Click to expand...

We need to have a good idea of what we want . So the internet is a perfect way to talk about things before we get to the meeting. A claim rule is not to prove someone is cheating ,but if someone thinks they are cheating you just claim the car no questions asked.
 
Have you been to see a race at I-55. There isn't much junk out there. I got my car for free just had to strip it out and put a cage in it. It was great looking when I started racing 2 years ago, but has shown its wear. You can easily spend alot in these cars, but if you find the right deal you can do it for $500 and make a deal out of that claim.
 
I hope everyone is working towards the same goals here. Those goals should not be to call anyone out, point fingers, or keep any particular driver or team from winning races. The problem with our class is that it has become a game of "Can you top this?", with the deep pockets usually answering with a resounding "Yes!". We need to ask ourselves what we are really trying to accomplish. As a driver you shouldn't be angry at a guy when he beats you, if he does it by the book. Here lies the problem. We don't have that book. At least not a black and white one with hard and fast rules. As we try to put something together that will restore this class to what it was intended to be we need to be careful. I think the more complex we try to make these proposed rules, the more trouble you will have trying to enforce them. Then the next thing you know it's mid season and we're back at square one with the same issues.

I don't envy any promoter or tech man who attempts the nearly impossible task of figuring out what is stock and whats not. We can't expect these guys to spend the most time and effort policing their lowest support class. That however doesn't mean we can't come up with something simple and concrete to both make their jobs easier, and eliminate the current free for all it has become. You hear it alot that this guy or that guy is cheating. I personally don't care who is quote "cheating". If a guy has more than he's suppossed to under the hood then I would want it gone. I wouldn't be concerned with what they had, I would just want to get rid of it. Crates, rebuilds, cams, headwork, etc...guys will think twice before they dump a bunch of money under the hood if it can be bought at a junkyard price. That's the beauty in the motor claim. It removes the question of who is cheating and how the hell do we catch them?

I don't like the idea of a complete car claim at all. When you build a car and do everything in your power to make it as safe and comfortable as possible, you don't want to trade it for something with a history you know nothing about. I don't want someone elses car and if I did I would have built one like it to begin with. I have sponsors as do alot of other drivers. That money you rely on goes a long way towards tires, gas, pit passes, etc. After you go spending some of that money to put their name and logo on your car, it doesn't look good if someone else is racing it the next week. It's no secret that certain guys, myself included, take alot of pride in the appearance of their racecars. I think you'll see alot of junk cars with duct tape numbers if there is a complete car claim. Here's a basic idea of what I would like to see in our class as far as rules.

No peformance parts of any kind with the exception of washable air filters.

Suspension components may be used and interchanged from any make/model of car as long as they are oem.

Seperate claim amounts for engine, transmission, computers, and struts/shocks.

Only a driver that finishes in the top 10 on that particlur night will be eligible to protest and claim the winning cars motor/trans/suspension/cpu.

Any drivers who refuses a claim will be suspended for one month or 4 nights of racing and will lose all accumulated points for that season.


all cars must appear neat and presentable. No loose sheetmetal or sharp edges. All cars must have some sort of front and rear bumper covers.

I realize there are logistics to all of this, especially the claim rule. One possible solution might be an impound of the car until the following day after the race.

With a set of rules similar to these, you can still out chassis and outsmart your competition with inexpensive junkyard parts. Anyway, this is just my opinion. I believe it would be a simple way for the drivers to keep each other in check while keeping they grey area alive. What do you guys think?
 
All good ideas . How about some other input from the rest of you guys. There has been 181 veiws on this topic. I know you guys have some opinions on this. Don't wait until the meeting!:eek:
 
What about a protest instead of a claim?Put up $100 and if parts protested aren't stock you get back $75 and track gets $25.If parts are stock protested car gets $75 and track gets $25.I really think we need to get back to the aera of equalizing the cars,what about weight of cars?1-1999ccs--2150lbs 2000-2300ccs--2225lbs over 2300ccs--2325lbs and add 100lbs for engines with more than 2 valves per cylinder.The car weight is with driver.Engine size is in cc's,exampl-2000ccs is 2.0L or 122cubic inch.I got these weights from tracks that run in the south and they claim that work well to even competition.They have the cars paint their weight on the top of thr left ft fender or hood for ease of tech.The most important part of equal competition will be rule enforcement by the track.Let's face it rule enforcement has taken second place to keeping the car count up,the track wants cars,your money and doesn't want to run anyone off .Any ideas on maybe forming a competition board for Highland?They had one at one time.carbonrator(aka Mike Z)
 
Carbonrator said:
What about a protest instead of a claim?Put up $100 and if parts protested aren't stock you get back $75 and track gets $25.If parts are stock protested car gets $75 and track gets $25.I really think we need to get back to the aera of equalizing the cars,what about weight of cars?1-1999ccs--2150# 2000-2300ccs--2225# over 2300ccs--2325# and add 100# for engines with more than 2 valves per cyl.I got these weights from tracks that run in the south and they claim that work well to even competition.They have the cars paint their weight on the top of thr left ft fender or hood for ease of tech.The most important part of equal competition will be rule enforcement by the track.Let's face it rule enforcement has taken second place to keeping the car count up,the track wants cars,your money and doesn't want to run anyone off .Any ideas on maybe forming a competition board for Highland?They had one at one time.carbonrator(aka Mike Z)
Click to expand...


Mike,
How do you Know if a part is stock or not? Some parts will be easy to detect but others will be hard. Also not sure what all those numbers mean. Could you explain.

Rob
 
Rob,Stock parts are parts that came on car when manufactored which have a part number or cast number on them.I've revised my weight table that I copied from 4m.net.Anyone interested in what other tracks across the country are doing for rules can go to 4m.net and in the mini stock tech section do a search for rules.There is an abundant amount of info there.Hope this helps.Mike Z
 
The weight idea sounds like a decent possibility. As far as checking for stock/oem parts I think that is just gonna complicate things. If you are suspicious of the parts and/or modifications that really add some punch, then you have to tear someone down and know all your specs to catch them. I just believe that there are too many loopholes that way. Big money and lack of sensible judgement will find a way around that every time.
 
its not all about the money. My dad got my car for $65 with the clutch out of it. We already had a spare clutch. The car is fast runs up front on a regular basis. I have been put in the wall on the last lap of a feature for a illeagal car to beat me... So, you dont have to have a lot of money in your cars to win...

as for the motor claims...i think you should claim the whole car...
 
I think a big thing for teching hornets is the track needs to come up with a computer.Now days if u know what to look for you can tell almost anything.
 
Hornet Protest Ideas

Been watching this thread and decided to throw my 2 cents in. I do not want to see a complete car claim rule. As pointed out it costs too much time & money to build a solid safe car, sponser issues, grudge claims. etc....and what about the spare parts/parts car, a lot of people have on hand, they are useless without the original racecar,etc... Most of us cannot afford to have a backup car ready to go if we get claimed.

Engine claim is a little better but if somebody claims my engine and I get their engine in exchange what do I do with a engine that I can't put in my car.

I think the track should be responsible for ENFORCING the simple stuff,tires, wheels, shocks, struts, PCM, air intake & safety.

I agree with Carbonator that protest is the way to go on the rest. Here are a couple of ideas I have not seen here yet.
  1. Mandatory protest after a CAR (not driver) wins 3 features. Check top end.
  2. After 6 feature wins, check bottom end, tranny & differential.
    If somebody can win 6 features and pass 2 inspections they are probably legal and just have a good car & driver combo. Mandatory protests would be fair to everybody and prevent bad blood between drivers which can make it's way to the track, always a bad situation. Some might say, a cheater will change parts after 2 wins. If they are cheating they probably won't win much after removing parts and who can predict when they will win their 3rd or 6th
    feature on any given night.
  3. I agree it's hard to tech a hornet at the track. How about locking down the hood of the protested car at the track. Locks thru hoodpins or drill 4 holes and put locks thru them. Find an unbiased shop or person to perform the inspection before the car can race again. Any tampering with locks or hood prior to inspection should be dealt with harshly. Illegal parts should be confiscated.
  4. How do we pay for protest inspection? We could start a protest fund, 10% of feature payout would probably cover all costs. Haven't heard if payout was being increased in 06 but maybe the track could cover protest fund instead of increasing payout? Sell some 50/50 tickets, charge all drivers a $2.00 protest fee, get a sponser for the protest fund and name the Hornet feature after them....I'm sure they are some other ideas out there too.
Just some new ideas to think about. If you think they stink that's fine, don't just say: "they stink", SHARE YOUR IDEAS. Please Let's try to keep this thread on subject, RULES SUGGESTIONS, if you want to accuse people of cheating, or share your favorite Hornet story start a new thread.

Steve J.
 
Something else

Something I forgot to add to last post. Based on 2005 Highland Hornet Feature winners there would have been 1 car inspected twice with 6 or more wins and 2 cars checked for 3 or more wins. 4 protests for an entire season wouldn't be so bad.

I also agree that a minimum 1lb per cc rule is a good idea.

Steve J.
 
I dont think adding weight for dual cam cars will do anything but make them faster. This is Dirt track racing its all about getting it to the ground. So if you addd weight to the fast cars unless its alot you will onley make them faster. The thing I think realy needs to be worked out is getting someone who knows what there looking at to tech the cars.
 
you have a garage door to the expo hall inpound the car and it might be hard for rob but wut i am saying is no one has access to the inpound room EXCEPT the track promoter and rob and maybe one unbiased witness to make sure no tampering with parts this wouldnt be hard to do you have the things to do it with you just dont put them to use think about it ohhh yeah robbie eilers has a million dollar sportsmen now:eek: :rolleyes: :D ryan and russels car only cost about 500 make wut ya want of it. but seriously highland use your brains for once and think about this,
 
ok im gunna sound really stupid but wtf ar eu guys talking about "claim" please some1 explain to dumbass here wtf u guys are talking about
 
Ok, first of all I don't race in that area, but I thought this was a very interesting thread. I wanted to put my 2 cents in on the subject.

I don't agree with the complete car claim at all because it does cost a lot of money to build a decent and safe car. You figure by the time you buy the car and the roll cage, etc... And most of the cars you buy have something wrong with them that you have to get fixed before you can start racing them. So I don't agree with that at all.

As far as claiming certain parts of the cars, (motors, trannys, shocks, etc.) I don't agree with that either, because the person doing the claiming may have a totally different car than you, then you are stuck with something you don't need. Plus if someone claims my motor, it is hard to find a cheap motor to put in your car to go back racing. I mean the motors I have priced for my car have been anywhere from $450 up. And some of the other parts it is hard to find period. So I don't agree with that either.

I do however agree with the protest thing somewhat. I think if someone is going to protest something, you should have to put the money up to protest it, and it could be a different amount. Say if you are going to put up the money to check something in the bottom end, well that person needs to pay for what it is going to cost to tear it down and check it, (gaskets, antifreeze, oil) whatever you are going to have to have to put it back the way it was anyway. And if after it is checked, if it is found legal and stock then the one that protested it, does NOT get any more protests all year. If they are right, then you can protest someone else in the future. Put a minimum on little things that doesn't cost money to check, except for someone's time.

Here is another thing to think about, most of our cars are used. I don't know of anyone that has rolled a car off of the showroom and straight onto the track..lol But someone could go to a junkyard and get a car that has been wrecked or something. Now what's to say that car hasn't already had work done to the motor or tranny or suspension. There are a lot of guys out there that don't have a clue how to tell whether something is aftermarket or not. It is definitely a tough subject in our class, that is for sure. Now how do we tell whether that person tried to get an edge or whether they didn't know what they had???

It is tough to inspect these cars and tech them from top to bottom. You have to be careful on how easy you make claims and stuff or you could end up losing a lot of cars too. If you have everyone claiming everybody, then a lot of guys probably won't rebuild or get another car for awhile and then the track loses money.
 
Yeah the claim rule as far as engines go will never go through in the hornets because there are too many different cars. In a bomber class where they are all running SBC then I could see that but not in this class.
 
i have an idea

everybody go back to what this class was built for a STOCK 4 cylnder class you if you want to run springs of a diffrent model then fun them as long as there not aftermarket as for the motors stop building millon dollar cars just win 125 bucks or a trophy run like it was ment to be for the buget racer to race just my thought on this .......................ohh rob you need a new vinal guy lol..........200 dAM
 
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