Before We Begin Again In 08:

Uncle Ed.

Uncle Ed.

Team Heidenhain Racing
Hello everyone, Its never to Early to get started:​

First I would like to say how much fun we had this year competing against all of you.
Getting to know all of you changed my jaded opinion of dirt track racing.
And I would like to think that in some small way our program helped the class grow some this year.
Word Is:
We already have the 08 season commitment from the folks at HEIDENHAIN for our team to return and for the big dolor race at the end of the year.
They are also interested in doing more to help our class grow and develop.​

SO:​

Sit back and get comfy while I spew some ideas for evolution of Mini Stock.​

Nothing written in stone mind you!
Just looking for some feed back good and bad....​

While traveling for work I have had lots of time to ponder what the class would look like if things were more, Well you know EVEN:
I can't figure out what single aspect of the class that would help it develop into a premiere class with huge car counts and plenty of pay back for all of us.
I am sure others are thinking the same thoughts as well.
Reverting back to what I know best (DRAG RACING) I thought of the handi cap stuff that we all know as bracket racing for some sort of fix for the rules in the Mini Stock Class, but nothing comes to mind that would translate to our class.
Let me clarify:
There is nothing wrong with the rules per say.
It is just left open to spend all the money you can find just to compete.
I think this has to have a ceiling somewhere, that's all.​

And this thought came to mind.​

What about a spec power plant for each manufacture competing in our class:​

HOLD IT!​

I can here you all already!​

Just here me out and let's be civil about this.​

After all this is just the ramblings of a rookie team owner who has big bills to pay as a result of his racing addiction.​

I am not talking about a dumbed down version of any of the existing competing manufactures. Or a one engine fixes all problems type of thing.
(I just hate that)
Just some way of getting more folks into the class without having the huge expense of building an competitive power plant.
After talking to some of my engine builder connections this may be possible to do at a fraction of what it is costing some of us to build competitive engines.​

For instance:​

To help the GM 2.5 guys we might get away from the bad head design and go to the 2.2 which uses the cross flow style cylinder head and has a better oiling system to help keep that together longer.
It is still a push rod engine and there are more GM after market parts available to help lower the cost.​

The Ford 2.3 don't need to much help, there is already a world of cool goodies to help keep them together, but keeping the cost down is still a great idea.​

Even the Toyota 20/22/2? R motors could be included in this mix as well as other import auto makers.​

They might even be able to have a SAFE light competition flywheel and clutch bolted on already.
(Just a safty thought)​

These "SPEC" engines would make somewhere in the 175-200 horse power range at the flywheel and have dyno sheets to prove it.
So these would be no boat anchors!
I couldn't handle that either.​

Think of it.​

Just bolt on your carb (assuming it's legal) and your header and tune it for the weather conditions.
Spend your time learning to tune your cars chassis and training your drivers.​

All this for about $1800.00 with your core in any condition.​

After talking on the subject for days and pondering some of the good and bads of the deal, I thought it might be time for some of the best Mini Stock Racers in the Midwest to give some of their opinions.
Good and Bad.​

Let me tell you some of my good and bads.​

#1 I already have a good competitive engine.
Answer: Don't you have to fresh-in it up anyway for next year?
#2 I did not spend that much on any of my engines so far.
Answer: Have you seen how fast this class has become?
If you have not spent that much already then either your engine is a time bomb or your the Wizard of OZ.
With the correct oil pan ($350.00) plus a good set of pistons
(Flat Tops Of Course) bore and hone four holes and you spent the same money already..
#3 How are we going to control the competitors from tampering with the sealed engines.
Answer: You can't. The next logical step up in performance will become obvious to even the casual inspector.
Jeez: Why would someone even ask that. Is almost 200 ponies not enough to power one of these cars. Are they even safe at higher speeds?​

OK Ok Ok​

I know you can't wait to start the onslaught of ideas and criticisms. ​

So: ​

Get started already!​

Only a few months until we here MIni Stock Thunder again!​

Have a great off season:​

Ed Albietz aka Uncle Ed.​

P.S. Hey Bob:
You wanted something to fire up this forum didn't you?:eek:
Check this out!:eek:​
 
Just a simple thought...

How about someone starting the Racing Association for Ministocks back up (RAMS). The RAMS rules are pretty well rounded and we could all race the same track once a month or more to ensure a good payout. From what I have heard it was working really well until the founder passed away. We have three tracks that are more then willing to support RAMS...The Rock (Fredericktown), Doe Run, and MCS. I am sure there are more out there, but those are the three we raced at this year. Now here is the catch....if the racers...actually followed the rules it would be "more even". The thing I have learned about racing is..people will get away with what they can get away with...not to give a moral lesson here, but integrity is a character trait that is somewhat missing from the track. Anyway here is a copy of the RAMS rules that The Rock uses.

Track Rules For Rock's Association of Mini Stocks (RAMS) for 2007

COMPETING MODELS
1. Any inline four cylinder, two or four door compact sedan. Any inline four cylinder compact pickup, foreign or domestic. Rear wheel drive cars or trucks only. No front wheel drive vehicles allowed. No four wheel drive vehicles allowed. No two seat compact cars allowed. No Volkswagens, no convertibles or high performance cars allowed. No fuel injected, turbo charged or rotary powered cars or trucks allowed. No mid or rear engine vehicles. Extended cabs and wagons are acceptable as long as they have a 94 to 112 wheelbase. Body and frame must be from same make and model of vehicle.

2. All cars and trucks shall weigh a minimum of 2500 pounds with driver.

3. All cars and trucks shall have a minimum wheelbase of 94 and maximum wheelbase of 112.

BODIES
1. Body must remain basically stock. May cut drivers door for ease of entering vehicle. Dash must be removed, can replace with a fabricated dash. Front firewall must be stock. All holes in front firewall must be sealed. Rear firewall may be fabricated. Hatchback cars MUST fabricate a rear firewall to protect the driver from the fuel cell. Door panels may be replaced with .040 steel provided that it follows the same contour as the original body panel (must be stock appearing).
2. The following panels are allowed to be gutted: hood, roof, trunk lid, doors, doorpost, inner quarter panels, fenders and tailgate.
3. May use aftermarket plastic noses and or tail pieces.
4. May cut opening in hood for air cleaner clearance.
5. You may use plastic at bottom of bodies as skirting but must not hang below vehicle more than 6 inches.
6. Trimming of fenders allowed for tire clearance only. Truck bed floors may be removed, but top of bed must be covered and securely fastened.
7. All glass and exterior trim must be removed. Hood and trunk must be safely secured. Doors must be securely fastened. Driver compartment must be completely gutted, however you may fabricate an interior similar to a modified or latemodel. IF IT WILL BURN, TAKE IT OFF!!! No rear view mirrors allowed.
8. Stock front bumpers made of steel may be used and may be reinforced between frame rails. Inside bumpers can be made with 1 ½ O.D tubing maximum. No shock absorber type bumpers allowed. No angle iron. Square tubing bumpers allowed on front or rear, 1 ½ square minimum, 2x3 maximum. Must have top and bottom loop minimum of 12 inches from ground and 28 inches maximum from ground. Front bumper must be capped with stock type bumper unless using plastic aftermarket nose.
9. Front and rear bumpers must be wrapped or rounded on ends as to not allow another vehicle to get hooked on corner of bumpers.
10. Door panels may be trimmed for roll cage clearance.
11. Must have chain or some way of picking up vehicle front and rear.
12. Original grill may be removed, but screen wire or expanded metal must be installed to retain stock appearance. NO FLAT SIDES. If grill is made of hard plastic it must be removed. Again aftermarket noses are allowed.
13. Rub rails may be used but not to exceed 1 ½ O.D. ends must be capped as to not allow another vehicle to get hooked on rail. No sharp edges. Must be no more than 3 inches from side of vehicle.
14. Steering quickners may be used, steering rods may be used in place of stock steering column. Quick disconnect steering wheels MUST be used.
15. Vehicles shall be numbered in the following manner: ROOF, minimum of 18” tall, DOORS, 15” to 18” tall, top right hand corner of windshield or in place of right headlight, 5”tall.

ENGINE AND DRIVE TRAIN
1. Engine must be in stock position. No offset or lowering allowed
2. Engine must be for make of vehicle being used (Chevy to Chevy, Ford to Ford, and GM to GM). However, The Ford 2.3 engine is the adopted engine (plus transmission and rear-end) for the Rock's Association of Mini Stocks and can be used in ANY make or model that meets RAMS standards. Factory motor mounts on the block must bolt to the factory motor mounts on the frame. Only slight variations in width will be tolerated. Motor mounts on block or frame may not be moved forward or backward.
3. Factory stock carburetors or up to a holly 500 two barrel with a maximum 2inch spacer and/or adapter plate is allowed. No type of fuel injection allowed. 1 3/8 venturi rule applies.
4. Aftermarket intakes may be used. Must be for type of vehicle you are racing. But must be reduced to a single two barrel carburetor as stated in rule #3.
5. Any exhaust may be used. Must exit completely from vehicle, beyond drivers’ compartment, without pointing straight down. Mufflers are optional. If exhaust is run through drivers compartment the exhaust must be shielded. Exhaust must meet track rules.
6. Heads must be a stock part from the manufacturer. No high performance or aluminum aftermarkets. Oversized valves are allowed. Head can be decked for trueness. NO PORTING OR POLISHING allowed. Head must be for type of vehicle being used (Chevy to Chevy, Ford to Ford). No dual overhead cam heads allowed.
7. Block may be bored for cylinder trueness. NO STROKER motors allowed. May run aftermarket rods as long as they are the same length, weight (may be heavier) than the stock OEM rod, aftermarket rod bolts are allowed. Motor can be bored but must remain stock stroke. Aftermarket pistons may be used, flat top and dished pistons only.
8. Must use stock OEM crankshaft. Maintain stock stroke. Balancing is allowed, however No lightening or knife edging allowed. Must be stock OEM for motor being used.
9. Aftermarket cams allowed. Exception, No aftermarket roller cams. Stock roller cams may be used.
10. May use aftermarket or fabricated oil pan.
11. Aftermarket pulleys may be used.
12. No aluminum flywheels. Stock type clutch, pressure plate and flywheel. Flywheel may not be shaved or drilled, however may be surfaced. No triple disc clutch.
13. Stock transmissions only. No racing type transmissions. All vehicles must have all forward and reverse gears operational.
14. (Optional) Have a scatter shield either mounted to transmission bell housing or to the floor pan. ¼” thick x 6” wide steel.
15. May use aftermarket ignition/distributor. No MSD box type ignition allowed. No magnetos.
16. Air cleaners may exit hood but not to obstruct driver’s vision. Top and bottom of air cleaner housing must be metal. No extreme air cleaners.
17. Radiator may be relocated from original position. If moved it must be shielded from driver.
18. All vehicles must have a working starter.
19. Locked rear ends allowed. Ford 8” rearends allowed for all makes and models.
20. Weight jacks allowed. Car or truck must use same type suspension that it came out of the factory with. Racing style shocks allowed. No coil overs or coil eliminators. May add coil spring with weight jack to leaf spring vehicle. May run mono leaf springs. No sliders allowed.
21. All vehicles must have a minimum of 8 inch wide tire. Racing rubber only. Grooving of tire is allowed.
22. Steel wheels only. No aluminum wheels. Must use 1 inch lug nuts.
23. Must have brakes on at least three wheels and be functional at all times.
24. Pump gas or race fuel ONLY. No alcohol or additives allowed.

MINI STOCK SAFETY RULES
1. All cars and trucks must have a six (6) point roll cage with a minimum of 1 ½ O.D .090 wall round tubing. No square tubing allowed. All uni-body cars must have either a 6x6x3/16 minimum plate bolted to the top AND bottom of floor pan and cage must be welded to plate or a sub-frame connector made of a minimum 1 ½ .090 O.D square steel tubing bolted or welded to frame. Cage may be welded to sub-frame connector.
2. Two bars minimum to rear of car or truck, must attach to frame.
3. Three bars on left door are mandatory. Two horizontal bars or an X in the right side.
4. Minimum of three vertical bars in front of the driver in the windshield area is mandatory.
5. Fuel cells are mandatory and must be strapped down with a minimum of two metal straps and must be in the trunk of the cars or the bed of the trucks. Must have a firewall between driver and fuel cell, if the cell is in the bed of the truck, the fuel cell or bed must be covered. Fuel cells must be in a canister made of a minimum of 22-guage steel.
6. Batteries must be securely mounted in the trunk or bed of the vehicle. Marine type boxes are allowed.
7. Must have a kill switch mounted on a panel left of the steering wheel and fuel shut off valve must be in reach of driver.
8. Drive shafts must be painted white with the vehicle number on them. Must have one loop located within 12 inches of the rear of the transmission.
9. Fire retardant driving suits are MANDATORY. Fire retardant shoes, gloves and neck braces are optional. See track Rules.
10. Working fire extinguishers are optional however HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. It must be securely fastened inside drivers’ compartment. See track rules.
11. Five (5) point racing type seat belts dated not over 4 years are mandatory. Seat belts must be secured to the roll cage or floor pan.
12. Racing type seats are mandatory and must be securely mounted.
13. Driver side window net is mandatory.
14. Helmets must be one of the three latest Snell approved full head coverage competition types.
15. Any added weight must be securely mounted with two bolts, painted white and have vehicle number on it.
16. Driver side doorplate is mandatory. Minimum thickness of 18 gauge .049 sheet metal.
17. All vehicles must pass a safety inspection, by a tech inspector, before being allowed to race.

TEARDOWN PROCEDURE
1. Must be in writing within 15 minutes after the feature race is completed.
2. The following are the fees for the teardown procedure:
A. Complete teardown is $300 dollars cash.
3. You must start the feature to be able to protest another car.
4. The teardown procedure will be done immediately following the feature.
5. Refusal of teardown or found to be illegal will equal loss of points, and loss of winnings for the night with an additional 1 week suspension. Teardown fees will also be returned to the protestor. Also the person being protested looses all protest rights for entire season if refusal to tear down.
6. Only the tech inspector, driver/ mechanic and protestor may be present during teardown procedure.
7. If driver being protested is found to be legal, the driver being protested will receive all teardown fees collected.

IMPORTANT NOTE
1. You do not have to be a RAMS member to race; However ALL RAMS rules and regulations must be followed. NO EXCEPTIONS.
2. Fighting will not be tolerated!! No driver shall be under the influence of DRUGS OR ALCOHOL. Any violations of either rule will be PUNISHED by being BANNED from RAMS events until appointed officers and RAMS members decide to vote for you to be able to race again. REMEMBER THIS IS FAMILY ORIENTATED AND FOR FUN!!!
3. Drivers must be a minimum of 14 years of age. Drivers under the age of 16 must complete a driving test before they are allowed to compete. All drivers under the age of 18 must have a release form and birth certificate on file before being allowed to compete.
4. Safety and Tech persons reserve the option to view your vehicle at any time and will on a regular basis during the season. Remember, it’s the job of the Tech person to enforce the rules and preserve the integrity of the class.
5. If there is no exception listed in these rules, IT IS DEEMED TO BE STOCK WITH YOUR CAR OR TRUCK.
6. All RAMS racers must sign a proper release form that will be provided to them before they will be allowed to participate. All minors, age 17 and under will also need parental consent forms.
 
That should do it Uncle Ed...If not,
dig up some photos of those topless
Drag strip groupie chics that you
have stashed away from the old days!:D
 
Ed, I see your point about a spec engine, for those that can afford it. I can tell you I had my engine in the #33 pinto completely rebuilt by S&P for $1,200, which also included head work. I like the fact that you can run the setup that you choose and can also make changes to try to be faster. With a spec engine you cant do either. I think our class is pretty even and could be better with just a couple changes.
With a spec engine you are now making EVERYONE make changes to their race program. When I first started in 2004 everyone was very close. If you take a look at what the difference from 2004 and now I would have to say it would be the rules. Look at what the ministocks are selling for now! You could get a nice competitive car/truck for under $3,000. Thompson wants $7,000 or so for his, Wolf wanted $4,000 or so for his. What does that tell you? It tells you they have more money into their cars now than they did before. $7,000 for a misistock?????? This will tell you where the class is heading if we dont stop it! RULES, RULES, RULES, make them, Stand by them, Tech for them!
Take a look at the 2003, 2004, and even 2005 RAMS rules. there was a reason everyone was so competitive! And it didnt include Ported and polished heads, aftermarket rods, MSD ignition, racing clutches, roller/stroker motors.
Just my 2 cents.
Steve "DUCK" LaGarce
 
I think everyone knows how I feel about this. I got into this class because it was cheap to get into but you still could make many adjustments on your motor and car. So it was a real racecar but for $900 you could build a motor that could compete and even win a race or two. I did have an issue with a bad distributor this year but the car ran well when the inept mechanic would set it up right.

I was no match for Trendel and Thompson but I could pick up the phone and order a head completely set up that would allow me to run with them for $3500. You can go out and buy a real nice set of heads for a V8 for the same price and get two of them. I just don't see spending that much money in this class. It is suppose to be the starting point for people to get into racing and get some seat time while learning how to set up and tune a car.

I have to agree with Duck on teching for the rules. In the RAMS the rules were tweaked over many years and were a pretty good set of rules even though they were not teched as they should have been, when a car started to run away with things they were teched very well though. You will always have racers accusing other races of cheating but it will keep it to a min if everyone is teched for all of the rules not just a one or two.
 
Uncle Ed

First I want to say THANKS to you an the Heidenhain Corp. an MR Rick Korte for sponsoring the biggest payout race the MINISTOCKS have ever had. The race payed us ( 01 ) more money than we earned all year but that was not the best about the last two races at MCS . We had more fun at thoes two races than we had all year , with te help of J P R we diled the car to the condition of the track an made the car handle better witch made us more competitive. looking forward to racing next year with all of the MINISTOCKS. John Heitman MINISTOCKS a poor mans 500
 
Great Stuff: Keep It Coming!

Hi Guys and Girls:

I here all sides of this and the one thing that re-occurs in almost every argument is that only way to enforce the rules it to tech the competitors weekly!!!!
Since we all know that won't happen:
CREATE STYLE ENGINES WILL HELP!
By no means is it a cure all mind you.
And it would kill me as well as I love to build more power every time I have time to touch those cars.
LOOK:
I have a great budget for this.
If we let this go I think it will be time for that $3500.00 dolor head.
TIMES 3 Mr. ESSLINGER IF YOU PLEASE.

You See:
That is what's wrong with this.
If you won't enforce or just can't afford to enforce the rules due to a reduced car count when you do then we are all stuck between a rock and a hard place.
The only way we increase the car count is if new and seasoned competitors feel they have a chance to win.
The other big thing is our purse each week.
By bringing up the car count, we can begin to negotiate for a bigger part of the pie.
Taking out the high ticket item under the hood is just one way of solving the problem.
Don't close your mind to anything just yet.
This is bench racing season!
We have only just begun to fight.

Oh Yea Steve:
If you think that $1200.00 dolor bullet will due this coming season, think again. If we don't change the rules or re-build the organization the ensuing spending spree will knock your socks off....
We should talk way before this 08 season gets started, don't you think?

Uncle Ed.:eek:
 
I think you can tech weekly just not for everything. Draw out of a hat to see what will be teched that week. There is alot of downtime before during and after racing that it would not be that hard to tech 15 cars for one thing. If that is to much tech the top 5 each week for one thing. JMO
 
Ed, and thats my exact point about the $1,200 dollar engine build. In 2003-2004-2005 that engine would be competitive. I mean I took 3rd a few times 4th a couple times and as low as 7th with that engine and it wasnt even dialed in, it had a miss at 5,500 rpm. I drove a chevette with a bone STOCK 2.5 from a S-10 my first year and I didnt do half bad with it. I took 5th in the RAMS series and got rookie of the year with that car. I paid Jeff Mills $1,000 for it.
My point is the cost of racing a ministock is getting out of control. Not all of us have big dollar sponsors to help pay for our racing. If I had a big budget, sure lets open the rules up more! That will kill the class!
Forcing everyone to buy a crate engine isnt the answer either. I like the fact that we have a choice on pistons, cams, pulleys, carb, intakes, and rocker arms. Now aluminum racing heads, aftermarket rods, and stroker cranks is out of control!
Ask Marty Boyer, Jon Reando, Kenny Harris, Smurf, Bill Nickelson, and Rick Ruch what the class was all about and how much fun it was when it first started! Safe, TRUE RACE CARS, at an affordable cost!
If at all possible (up to Mel) we do need to look at the rules for 2008!
 
HEY jack the last year jon shannon and I teched thats how we did put each car in a hat and each one of us picked a number... we tech them 3 cars all night
after heat races do one after trophy dash do one ect... we checked for illigal componts (msd) poped the hoods
check for all working gears.... some like some didin't ...
even listen to complaints from other racers... one that stand out in my mind was...

#3 brian after a heat race said when wolf took off it he got wet/and smelled like gas.. so we(tech guys) went over and ask wolf to pop his trunk... and his pitman had not put the gas lid on corectly and was spilling gas when he took off and in the curves...

uncle ed here is the biggest hurdle....

what to do with the expensive goodies everybody already bought...

them guy will not agree to take them off..and go slower??? why?

when I first started with the help of burch inc.:D he let me drive a his pimpto (he tried chevy) car was unscaled
motor smoked could run 8th 9 th place... pulled a motor with over 130 thousand miles on it jumped up to 6th with no adjustment except a for 390ci carb..

do that today you'll get lapped after 3 laps...

there is going to have to be a split to make everyone happy...

basically a ministock "A" class (mcs rules run what you brung)
and a "B" class (mix of the rock/doe run rules)

now this will hurt at some tracks but what we could do is maybe... if you a classified A class and run at a "B" track you have to wiegh more... and yes they could add this before they race so they could add it and not mess up there scaled car...

and to do this you would have to have every car inspected before race time at the begining give them there classification and just watch them closely
exaple say jack is a B class run's in the middle then he start winning every race and running away then really check him and make sur he didnt swap motors out...

just some ideals...

yes duck them was the fun years.. but I'm afraid they will be just that, Memories...

I'm afriad we've crossed the point of no return in this class...
 
This is all great stuff!

Hey guys:

Let me say it again.
I think for the most part we are all on the same page here.
I am just looking for some ideas to help put the fun back into it.
Although I must admit I am having a ball at it now.
But, I can for see the class becoming the same as most of the rest of the classes, "he or she who spends the most money wins most of the time".

I think this is a great class and I want to stay with it for awhile (or until we are just too fast and no one else can beat us) so I would like to help do whatever it takes to get it back in line.

Back when you guys started this no one had the knowledge that we all have now so naturally the cars have become faster as we go.
Now as all thing mature we must consider what it will take to bring the wayward child home again.

Look at the Fast Track Series.
I bet we argue more over our engine rules in 1 week then they do all season..
We need to do something to fix this.

Anyway who says the spec package has to be built to that extent.
Make it a $1200.00 engine and only 125 HP at the crank.
Hydraulic cams with virtually no need to remove the valve cover because nothing ever breaks or wears out.
Forged flat tops and good rods so the bottom end survives almost anything you throw at it and just go racing every week end.
You are still going to have to tune the carb and set the timing and adjust the header length for your combination.
You will still be working on the engine so what is the problem.
Maybe we could give the competitors a choice of cam grinds or even compression ratio that will work better with your driving style.
We are just kicking some ideas around her...


Can you remember the last time you went to the pay Go-Kart track with your buddies?
All of the power plants were supposed to be the same and the driver, his line ( and his weight) made the difference weather you won or not.
You didn't snub your nose at that.
Hell, you would have raced all night and never got tired of it.
And remember the one kart that everybody went for because they thought it was the fastest.

Man those were some fun times and we thought that was expensive to do on Saturday night.
Growing up is not as fun as we thought it would be now is it?

We might be able to re-capture some of that if we can fix this.

I don't proclaim to know all of the answers, but I know if we all talk about it enough the cream will rise to the top and the answers will come to us if we just talk and keep it civil.

Remember:

Others are watching us.
Some of them remember when and some are wondering what will be when it becomes their turn to face up to the task.

Man it must be late again:

My thoughts are getting too profound and deep.

Keep the dialog alive and the suggestions coming.
Somewhere in the noise the answers will come through.

Ed Albietz: aka Uncle Ed.
 
Where could you get one if we had this type of rule?

Hey Jim:

Congrats on your season!
Just goes to show you what you can do if you stay with it.

As far as where could you go to get one?

I know this would not be a 1 shop effort and the geography would also play into the mix.
The guys that race down south would not want to travel up north to buy their stuff and they would also like to support their local shops.
As I said, this would be 1 of the questions that I was wanting from the competitors.
There is no magic Bullet that would level the playing field as much as this one, but I must confess, I am not sure that I want to do this either.
Just testing the waters before it is too late and we are all fighting among ourselves on this issue.

We are a pretty tight group we "Mini Stocks" and I would love to keep it that way. That is why I got into this.

I can't understand why there is not more dialog on the subject in this forum.
I asked this to stir up the competitors for some real fixes for the class.
Where are all the great minds of the worshiped DIRT CIRCLE?
Maybe it is not broken after all.
Maybe there are just a few whiners out there who make us think it is.
If we are all satisfied with it the way it is, then I would back off and get out my check book!
We can go back to the old adage of:
Speed Cost Money!
How fast can you afford to go?

I must say (and it is just my opinion) this is not how we get more cars and competitors to come into our class.
This will continue to escalate to the point of no return until there is only enough cars to put on a show without some good payouts because there are just not enough cars to support it.

I think I could put some sort of deal together at 2 or 3 shops that could be trusted to put together identical power plants from all of the manufactures that would satisfy the requirement.
I have the dyno facility lined up to do the component tests that would establish the equal horse power outputs for each of the manufactures combinations.

I know this can be done, but as I said, do we want this or can we get it under control on our own?
Without some sort of association to govern this regardless of the track we compete at, it will not get done right.

The drivers only want to go faster.
The track owner wants to have a reasonable car count to put butts in the seats so he or she can pay us at the end of the night.
If we can get the level of competitors way up (by whatever means necessary) we can expect more and higher payouts for all of our efforts.

It's simple math folks...

If you want to go real fast, you got to have real money.
If you want to have fun and race at the same time, we have to control some of the facets of the class.

I have no problem with anything that makes the cars safer.
I have no problem with making the cars handle better.
I have no problem with using whatever tires and wheels you guys want to use.
I have no problem with using whatever rear end you want to use.
(Bigger rear ends have bigger brakes that equals safer)

But when you look at the cars and trucks, where is the lions share of the money being spent.
When you ask "Joe fan in the stands" why he doesn't build one of these and compete with us, his first response will always be:

"IT COST TOO MUCH"

ENOUGH SAID!

Keep it coming guys and girls.
We all need to have a say in this....

Have a great weeks end:

Uncle Ed:
 
Something Else Just Hit Me:

Well I just picked myself up off the floor:

I was just looking over my team bills for the shortened 07 season and I had a heart attack when I saw the racing fuel bills.

What if we had a pump gas rule?
Lower compression would have to be the standard due to detonation.
Maybe this would help also.

SUNOCO FUEL WAS $499.9 A GALLON AT THE END OF THE SEASON.
We use a about 10 - 15 gallons per event.
This would save us all money.

Just over thinking everything:

Uncle Ed.
 
I can't understand why there is not more dialog on the subject in this forum.
I asked this to stir up the competitors for some real fixes for the class.
Where are all the great minds of the worshiped DIRT CIRCLE?
Maybe it is not broken after all.
Maybe there are just a few whiners out there who make us think it is.
If we are all satisfied with it the way it is, then I would back off and get out my check book!

But when you look at the cars and trucks, where is the lions share of the money being spent.
When you ask "Joe fan in the stands" why he doesn't build one of these and compete with us, his first response will always be:

"IT COST TOO MUCH"



Ed i dont think there is anything broke it is only a few whiners out there that are living in the past and dont like change, we had a good car count this year and there are more people out there building some for next year. This is still the cheapest class out there. Why would you need to get your check book out you have fast cars your drivers would just over drive them. and for the gas thats all i ran was pump gas the blue did nothing for me ran better on pump
 
ministock evolution

seems to me years ago when the ministocks first got started the drivers were all young adults who made a drove their own cars. today we have a much larger percentage of parents who are wanting to get their kids started (i'm guilty too) they are also putting more money into it then those who first started the class. more sponsers with bigger check books have entered into the game, not that any of this is bad, just different. i can't see this class ever being what it use to be, sorry duck, but it still can be and will be an excellent way to have fun at low cost, like jack and us low budget types, a self teching organized group that has a set of rules is a possible solution. to race a ministock join the group for 10 bucks have a tech on cars every sat. like jack said, check one thing a night. no claim rule no point fund, just a set of rules to follow. of course we all know that setting up a set of rules is almost impossible as we have seen in years past. bit it can be done. all things are possible maybe a meeting of all interest parties to see. there are alot of new faces that have shown up this year maybe they have the solution. this problem is not unique to this class, we need to see what other classes or tracks are doing to correct what problems we have.
kurt, car 42
 
2008

we would like to sell the pinto and move up. to what yet remains a question. if you know someone who wants a ministock point them my way. i herd you sold yours, getting ready for b-mods?
 
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