I don't think it is just a few whiners Jim. If it wasn't for you and your brother buying illegal heads last year and asking your buddy Mel to make them legal we would still have a low budget class. I believe most people in this class want to keep it low budget it is the few whiners with connections that are going to ruin it.
Before We Begin Again In 08:
- Thread starter Uncle Ed.
- Start date
Jack i do think it is only a few whiners are you one of them? I didnt know i had power over Mel to make rules, do you know Mel at all.
ShunJunJunShunJun
New Member
your all a bunch of cheaten bastards!!!
If your car pulls away from any car that has the head shaved, a larger cam, and setup correctly...WELL YOUR A BUNCH OF CHEATEN BASTARD!!!! And none of you will come out and just admit it cause you know that it will bring attention to the unseen modifications youv'e made to your cars.
And O ya...lets have a meeting...that will really fix things!
BOTTOM LINE....people lie, cheat, and steal. And believe it or not...a small perentage makes it into the racing world and really makes things screwy for the honest guy following the rules to the T.
Its all messed up....thats why we just decided to race our race and let everyone else do what they do.
If your car pulls away from any car that has the head shaved, a larger cam, and setup correctly...WELL YOUR A BUNCH OF CHEATEN BASTARD!!!! And none of you will come out and just admit it cause you know that it will bring attention to the unseen modifications youv'e made to your cars.
And O ya...lets have a meeting...that will really fix things!
BOTTOM LINE....people lie, cheat, and steal. And believe it or not...a small perentage makes it into the racing world and really makes things screwy for the honest guy following the rules to the T.
Its all messed up....thats why we just decided to race our race and let everyone else do what they do.
Dirt Tracker 44
Member
Rules
I don't know if crate motors are the way to go. There will always be a shop or team tampering with the "sealed" motors. The crate models have that problem now. A good honest tech man can do a lot of good for the class. But you also have to have the equipment to do the tech. A flashlight and magnet doesn't cut it. As far a one car being so much over the top and running away with the shows, I personally don't think it is as much motor as it is driver. I drove Harv's car the last two nights of the season. That car is a legal eagle all the way. Stock head, out of the box carb and all around just a good solid motor. With a few changes to the suspension and tuning a completely screwed up carb, that car went from a common mid pack car to a front runner that will win races. Preparation goes a long way. Big motors will not help you that much at MCS as slick as it gets. Tune the car to drive and you will see bigger benefits than a new powerplant. As a observation from the stands and correct me if I'm wrong Joe proved that this seasson. He has been fast all year but about mid season he found something. He used to run the top to make his truck turn better. Then when he made a change the truck turned into the corner better quit pushing and he got extremely fast. He would then run the corners where he wanted to not where he needed to. Hope you guys have a good off season, just a outside the class opinion.
I don't know if crate motors are the way to go. There will always be a shop or team tampering with the "sealed" motors. The crate models have that problem now. A good honest tech man can do a lot of good for the class. But you also have to have the equipment to do the tech. A flashlight and magnet doesn't cut it. As far a one car being so much over the top and running away with the shows, I personally don't think it is as much motor as it is driver. I drove Harv's car the last two nights of the season. That car is a legal eagle all the way. Stock head, out of the box carb and all around just a good solid motor. With a few changes to the suspension and tuning a completely screwed up carb, that car went from a common mid pack car to a front runner that will win races. Preparation goes a long way. Big motors will not help you that much at MCS as slick as it gets. Tune the car to drive and you will see bigger benefits than a new powerplant. As a observation from the stands and correct me if I'm wrong Joe proved that this seasson. He has been fast all year but about mid season he found something. He used to run the top to make his truck turn better. Then when he made a change the truck turned into the corner better quit pushing and he got extremely fast. He would then run the corners where he wanted to not where he needed to. Hope you guys have a good off season, just a outside the class opinion.
duckhunter330
Steve "Duck" LaGarce
Ed i dont think there is anything broke it is only a few whiners out there that are living in the past and dont like change, we had a good car count this year and there are more people out there building some for next year. This is still the cheapest class out there. Why would you need to get your check book out you have fast cars your drivers would just over drive them. and for the gas thats all i ran was pump gas the blue did nothing for me ran better on pump[/QUOTE]
Ed, asked for opinions and I gave mine. I dont recall whinning about anything. I never said that is how it has to be! I never said that I dont like change! I will say that having an aluminum racing head is in my opinion is rediculious!!!!!
Ed, ford has been racing the pony stocks for quite some time. The knowlege about the 2.3 has also been around for quite some time. The difference in our class now and from a couple years isnt the knowlege about the ministock, it is what we have said is now legal and not legal. It is obvious that a junkyard motor will not compete with a built pontiac superduty with an aluminum brodix racing head. And it shouldnt! However there has to be happy medium.
Jim, I am not whinning or living in the past, I am just letting Ed know, because he wasnt racing then, how the class was back in 2003-2005
Ed, asked for opinions and I gave mine. I dont recall whinning about anything. I never said that is how it has to be! I never said that I dont like change! I will say that having an aluminum racing head is in my opinion is rediculious!!!!!
Ed, ford has been racing the pony stocks for quite some time. The knowlege about the 2.3 has also been around for quite some time. The difference in our class now and from a couple years isnt the knowlege about the ministock, it is what we have said is now legal and not legal. It is obvious that a junkyard motor will not compete with a built pontiac superduty with an aluminum brodix racing head. And it shouldnt! However there has to be happy medium.
Jim, I am not whinning or living in the past, I am just letting Ed know, because he wasnt racing then, how the class was back in 2003-2005
tmoore20
Moore MotorSports
WELL NOT TO START ANYTHING ELSE WITH THIS POST BUT THAT CAR THAT WON AND THEN LATER GOT DQED HAD A 2850cc MOTOR IF ANYONE CARES AND I'M SURE A FEW OTHER CARS HAD A BIG MOTORS AS WELL. I DO REALIZE THE TRACK DON'T HAVE A WAY OF PUMPING MOTORS HOWEVER NEXT YEARS BIG MONEY RACE I CAN GET A PUMPER WELL BARROW ONE AND THE TRACK CAN PUMP THE CARS AND IF THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO USE IT I CAN DO IT, JUST A IDEA. BUT IF YOUR GONA MAKE RULES AND ENFORCE THEM YOU GOTTA PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN AND DO IT NOT JUST FRONT THE RULES.....JMO LATER TONY
kslle
Member
you wanna bet
i don't like being called a cheaten bastard and i'm sure others feel the same. our car is an open book, ask or check anything, this year because of the rules 99.9% of the cars were legal, except for the one who got disqualified at the big money race. our car would be legal at any track running ministocks that i know of. so if you are so sure we are all cheating go somewhere else.
i don't like being called a cheaten bastard and i'm sure others feel the same. our car is an open book, ask or check anything, this year because of the rules 99.9% of the cars were legal, except for the one who got disqualified at the big money race. our car would be legal at any track running ministocks that i know of. so if you are so sure we are all cheating go somewhere else.
It dont bother be i have been hearing it for 2 years now from a rearend (now that was funny) to some head that no one has seen to your truck is to loud so you have to be cheating. Thanks Kenny i took that as a compliment its Jim not Joe and sorry i was just pissed about the $1000 you know. The rules are set so if everyone is talking about MCS your wasting your time. I dont think the cost is getting out of control and if you spend a fourtion on a 4cyl well thats your own stupidity. Well Jack i think you should spend alittle more and stop buying junk and you might do better. Got to get back to work, building this 22r isnt cheap
Uncle Ed.
Team Heidenhain Racing
SEE, I told you so:
You See what this has become?
From asking a simple question of how to make our class bigger and better to name calling and childish accusations..
This is why the class will not take off as it should.
Problem #1 No one is willing to stand up and enforce the rules because it will cause the car count to go down.
If we all followed the rules the way they were (back in the early 2000's)we would still have an economy class and more folks could afford to compete.
Guess what happens then?
The car count goes up!
The pay out goes up.
The cost of fielding a car goes down.
We all benefit from going back to a tighter set of engine rules to save the competitors money and make it affordable again....
Racing already costs too much for the average Joe to afford.
Why do we consistently try to price ourselves out of the game?
A spec or create style engine would help to fix this problem and the shops that choose to tamper with this will have the program pulled away from them.
Making this easy to detect might be easier than you think:
What engine shop worth it's salt would spend a bunch of time to tamper with an engine that is already built to be bullet proof.
Compression can be checked by using a simple compression gage from Auto-Zone in 2 minuets by cranking the suspect engine over a few strokes.
Other means of checking the engines would be almost as simple.
A bore scope goes along way when in the hands of an impartial tech man.
I bet I could hustle a few of the A mod guys into doing the tech for our class.
Six guys and rotate them every other week end.
That way all of the cars could be looked at all of the time.
If we had an association back together we could even pay them by picking up their entry fee for that week.
May be we could return the favor by studying the a-mod rules and return the favor.
We just have to get creative and get this done...
Now grow up and stop all the name calling.
This may be a real laugh for you, but I have allot at stake and 2 young drivers coming up.
I don't want to turn them into people who act like this.
It gives all of us a bad name.
Keep the dialog coming, or the problem (if there is one) may never be solved!
Thanks:
Ed Albietz aka Uncle Ed.
You See what this has become?
From asking a simple question of how to make our class bigger and better to name calling and childish accusations..
This is why the class will not take off as it should.
Problem #1 No one is willing to stand up and enforce the rules because it will cause the car count to go down.
If we all followed the rules the way they were (back in the early 2000's)we would still have an economy class and more folks could afford to compete.
Guess what happens then?
The car count goes up!
The pay out goes up.
The cost of fielding a car goes down.
We all benefit from going back to a tighter set of engine rules to save the competitors money and make it affordable again....
Racing already costs too much for the average Joe to afford.
Why do we consistently try to price ourselves out of the game?
A spec or create style engine would help to fix this problem and the shops that choose to tamper with this will have the program pulled away from them.
Making this easy to detect might be easier than you think:
What engine shop worth it's salt would spend a bunch of time to tamper with an engine that is already built to be bullet proof.
Compression can be checked by using a simple compression gage from Auto-Zone in 2 minuets by cranking the suspect engine over a few strokes.
Other means of checking the engines would be almost as simple.
A bore scope goes along way when in the hands of an impartial tech man.
I bet I could hustle a few of the A mod guys into doing the tech for our class.
Six guys and rotate them every other week end.
That way all of the cars could be looked at all of the time.
If we had an association back together we could even pay them by picking up their entry fee for that week.
May be we could return the favor by studying the a-mod rules and return the favor.
We just have to get creative and get this done...
Now grow up and stop all the name calling.
This may be a real laugh for you, but I have allot at stake and 2 young drivers coming up.
I don't want to turn them into people who act like this.
It gives all of us a bad name.
Keep the dialog coming, or the problem (if there is one) may never be solved!
Thanks:
Ed Albietz aka Uncle Ed.
Uncle Ed.
Team Heidenhain Racing
Hey Bad Bob:
Hey Bad Bob:
How am I doing?
Have I gotten their attention yet?
I sure would have thought your 2 cents worth would have been part of this or are you just sitting back laughing.
Please Note:
My comments are not pointed at any one particular competitor.
I am just trying to protect the class from getting out of hand so we can continue to compete until which time we decide to move up or get out all together..
At that time I would like to think we had a positive effect on the class and helped to bring more competitors into it instead of running them out of it...
That is all we are interested in doing.
I think most of us will agree that keeping the cost down has to be
priority #1 in order to build up the car counts.
Again:
I hope I have not offended anyone!
Uncle Ed.
Hey Bad Bob:
How am I doing?
Have I gotten their attention yet?
I sure would have thought your 2 cents worth would have been part of this or are you just sitting back laughing.
Please Note:
My comments are not pointed at any one particular competitor.
I am just trying to protect the class from getting out of hand so we can continue to compete until which time we decide to move up or get out all together..
At that time I would like to think we had a positive effect on the class and helped to bring more competitors into it instead of running them out of it...
That is all we are interested in doing.
I think most of us will agree that keeping the cost down has to be
priority #1 in order to build up the car counts.
Again:
I hope I have not offended anyone!
Uncle Ed.
BAD BOB
sick & twisted old man
You're doin' great Uncle Ed, but I wasHey Bad Bob:
How am I doing?
Again:
I hope I have not offended anyone!
Uncle Ed.
really hoping you'd have to bring out
the Topless dragstrip groupie photos.
SMURFBLUE3
FORD PARTS PUSHER
TECH MEN use to get in free for our class at the rock thanks to millsey/curley/terry...
well don't the crate chevys have break off bolts in them??? also white out/(something like that) is a easy way to mark bolts just have to come up with a unquie color or a black light color you know knowing that I can build my car and buy a $1200 MOTOR and knowing every body has the SAME motor does sound good then the only way I'll get beat is by a better driver/or better handleing car....
Ed I see the pro's of what your saying... guy could buy a $500 roller and $1200 motor... and for under 2k you could be running up with the front of the pack...
well don't the crate chevys have break off bolts in them??? also white out/(something like that) is a easy way to mark bolts just have to come up with a unquie color or a black light color
you know knowing that I can build my car and buy a $1200 MOTOR and knowing every body has the SAME motor does sound good then the only way I'll get beat is by a better driver/or better handleing car....Ed I see the pro's of what your saying... guy could buy a $500 roller and $1200 motor... and for under 2k you could be running up with the front of the pack...
My thoughts on the subject
TRying to cut the cost on the class is going to be mainly teching and limit the amount of head work, tolerances, ect. Now this comment is not directed at anybody or accusing anyone of anything.
In 06, the people up front week in and week out was Wolf, Thompson, Rob Denny, Tony Moore, myself, and the last part of the season Jim Trendle, was always taking the top spots. Then there was Lane, Jack (which Jack had some top runs), the LaGarces, Scott, Tony, Mike, and Harv running in the middle to front of the pack.
With Myself, Wolf, Thompson, and Rob stepping up classes, or stepping away from racing, that opened up the "top spots" for everyone else. Lane and Jim had more seat time, tuned their cars and trucks in, practiced their butts off and really put on some good shows. From the beginning of the season when I came up with my mod, there was a bunch of rookies there that was going to be learning the whole "racing thing". But by the end of the season, there were some of those same rookies running like veterens out there.
Granted there will always be out spending the competitor, but the most expensive car doesnt always win. The person with more seat time, adaptability to the track and to track conditions and being able to set their vehicle up for those conditions will win out over high dollar parts and high dollar cars 99% of the time.
Whatever the class as a whole decides, I will do what I can to help everyone out. I dont have a stake in any team, I just want to see the class stay competitive and fun. that way other people can experiance how fun the class is and how good the people are that are in the class.
TRying to cut the cost on the class is going to be mainly teching and limit the amount of head work, tolerances, ect. Now this comment is not directed at anybody or accusing anyone of anything.
In 06, the people up front week in and week out was Wolf, Thompson, Rob Denny, Tony Moore, myself, and the last part of the season Jim Trendle, was always taking the top spots. Then there was Lane, Jack (which Jack had some top runs), the LaGarces, Scott, Tony, Mike, and Harv running in the middle to front of the pack.
With Myself, Wolf, Thompson, and Rob stepping up classes, or stepping away from racing, that opened up the "top spots" for everyone else. Lane and Jim had more seat time, tuned their cars and trucks in, practiced their butts off and really put on some good shows. From the beginning of the season when I came up with my mod, there was a bunch of rookies there that was going to be learning the whole "racing thing". But by the end of the season, there were some of those same rookies running like veterens out there.
Granted there will always be out spending the competitor, but the most expensive car doesnt always win. The person with more seat time, adaptability to the track and to track conditions and being able to set their vehicle up for those conditions will win out over high dollar parts and high dollar cars 99% of the time.
Whatever the class as a whole decides, I will do what I can to help everyone out. I dont have a stake in any team, I just want to see the class stay competitive and fun. that way other people can experiance how fun the class is and how good the people are that are in the class.
duckhunter330
Steve "Duck" LaGarce
Butch I see what you are saying however if you have two good handling cars and one has stock rods, stock head that's been cleaned up a little the other car has light aftermarket rods, and aluminum racing head which do you think will win? 9 out of 10 times the one with more work done to it will win. Why is Jim so fast? I will tell you why. He has tested, tested, and tested to get the right setup to get his truck to handle but, he also has an aluminum Brodix racing head, and who knows what else in the bottom end! I am not saying his truck is illegal, because the engine is not by MCS rules. I hate to see the class get to this point to where you have to spend that much to win! Sure you will get the less expensive car in victory lane once in a while.
I'm not sure there is any hope for MCS and the rules but we still have a chance with a touring series. I heard through the grape vine that Mel is looking to drop a class, let's watch our P's and Q's to make sure it isn't us.
I'm not sure there is any hope for MCS and the rules but we still have a chance with a touring series. I heard through the grape vine that Mel is looking to drop a class, let's watch our P's and Q's to make sure it isn't us.
