Brian Shaw gets hit in head with jack handle at Haubstadt

t.nie said:
Remember, any right you demand for yourself as a citizen, you give to every Tom, Dick and Harry you have ever seen in our country. And that is what makes the CCW stuff kind of scary to me.
Click to expand...

Does this mean you don't trust people and so would rather force them into what you consider safe?
 
t.nie said:
A gun has no other purpose except to be used as a weapon to kill. Read up on the history of the gun, the first documented "gun" was powder in a barrel to fire projectiles at the enemy to kill them. It was made in China. The gun was invented to kill people, end of story, and that is what is intended to do today as well. Sure, we hunt with them, but that's just killing animals of a different kind. The origins of the gun is a weapon to kill people. Can you say the same for a knife, or a jack handle?

A knife or other item "used as a weapon" does not have the potential to kill an innocent bystander 100 feet away. A knife or a jack handle even in the most lethal of hands cannot kill, maim or injure 30 people in a minute. Certain guns available in our society can.

I am not a "sheeple" as you put it. If you want to have this debate and think of me that way, then move on and speak to someone else. I think that term is more appropriate to you, as you use all the arguments pushed by the gun advocacy groups, and they are not good arguments. I can think of better arguments than they put out there on why people should be allowed to concealed carry.

1-There is no evidence to indicate that allowing people to carry concealed creates a more dangerous society.
2-People who get the CCW permit have to be vetted and trained to do so, which means they are deemed responsible to do so.
3-Private businesses maintain the right to ban guns from their premises, thereby allowing individual choice based on their preferences.


I could go on and on as to why people should be allowed CCW and to own guns. I have no problem with the majority of CCW holders and gun owners.

But you never did answer this question--Can you honestly say that every single person you personally know is responsible enough, emotionally stable enough, has enough common sense to carry a gun at all times?

You don't know one person who drinks and gets stupid, or maybe isn't the most stable of people, or has a very violent temper that they can't control all the time?

Remember, any right you demand for yourself as a citizen, you give to every Tom, Dick and Harry you have ever seen in our country. And that is what makes the CCW stuff kind of scary to me.
Click to expand...

Now your taking your ideology to do nothing but stifle technological advances. Should we prevent inventors from inventing things.

Fact is that human beings ARE violent, have been throughout human history, and I see no evidence that we as a species are changing in any way.

Prior to the invention of the gun, humans killed each other with rocks, then someone invented the cutting insrtument, then someone put that on a long stick and called it a spear, then along came someone who figured out how to throw it. Along came someone else who made a bow to throw it farther, then along came the crossbow. Not to mention the sling, of which David slew Goliath with.

Yes Chinese invented gun powder, not only for weapons, but also to create fireworks for celebrations.

I think you get my point on the fact that humans kill other humans, always have, always will. To remove technology away from good human beings is oppression and tyrannical, all for the ideology disguised to protect us from each other is stupid, as the bad human beings don't care and will still kill, but you've made it easier for the bad humans to do so.

And to your point about anyone having the RIGHT to carry a weapon if there not stable enough to do so, is scary. However, that's a very slippery slope your willing to take our society down. Who has the authority to deem someone as dangerous, who hasn't displayed dangerous behavior. Who out there can read minds or see into the future to tell who is going to commit a crime some time in the future and prevent them from committing that crime, or should we all agree to have our freedom infringed upon, for the sake of the vast minority that are capable of such horrible acts. Where does it stop and who is omnipresent enough to arbitrate fair and equal treatment for all without being wrong.

Sorry, your ideology falls flat with me. I prefer to have the right to live within society peacefully, and have the right to use available technology to protect myself, my family, as well as other peaceful human beings, unfettered by tyranny and oppression.
 
t.nie said:
A gun has no other purpose except to be used as a weapon to kill. Read up on the history of the gun, the first documented "gun" was powder in a barrel to fire projectiles at the enemy to kill them. It was made in China. The gun was invented to kill people, end of story, and that is what is intended to do today as well. Sure, we hunt with them, but that's just killing animals of a different kind. The origins of the gun is a weapon to kill people. Can you say the same for a knife, or a jack handle?

A knife or other item "used as a weapon" does not have the potential to kill an innocent bystander 100 feet away. A knife or a jack handle even in the most lethal of hands cannot kill, maim or injure 30 people in a minute. Certain guns available in our society can.

I am not a "sheeple" as you put it. If you want to have this debate and think of me that way, then move on and speak to someone else. I think that term is more appropriate to you, as you use all the arguments pushed by the gun advocacy groups, and they are not good arguments. I can think of better arguments than they put out there on why people should be allowed to concealed carry.

1-There is no evidence to indicate that allowing people to carry concealed creates a more dangerous society.
2-People who get the CCW permit have to be vetted and trained to do so, which means they are deemed responsible to do so.
3-Private businesses maintain the right to ban guns from their premises, thereby allowing individual choice based on their preferences.


I could go on and on as to why people should be allowed CCW and to own guns. I have no problem with the majority of CCW holders and gun owners.

But you never did answer this question--Can you honestly say that every single person you personally know is responsible enough, emotionally stable enough, has enough common sense to carry a gun at all times?

You don't know one person who drinks and gets stupid, or maybe isn't the most stable of people, or has a very violent temper that they can't control all the time?

Remember, any right you demand for yourself as a citizen, you give to every Tom, Dick and Harry you have ever seen in our country. And that is what makes the CCW stuff kind of scary to me.
Click to expand...

This is EXACTLY what I have been trying to get some people I know to understand. You hit my feelings almost dead on. Just some advice, stay out of my head.......it's not sanitary. :p
 
Lizardracing said:
Does this mean you don't trust people and so would rather force them into what you consider safe?
Click to expand...

Not sure how my views are described as "forcing someone" to do something, but me having to accept the viewpoint of others is not "forcing" me to go along with what they want?
 
theplummer said:
Now your taking your ideology to do nothing but stifle technological advances. Should we prevent inventors from inventing things.

Fact is that human beings ARE violent, have been throughout human history, and I see no evidence that we as a species are changing in any way.

Prior to the invention of the gun, humans killed each other with rocks, then someone invented the cutting insrtument, then someone put that on a long stick and called it a spear, then along came someone who figured out how to throw it. Along came someone else who made a bow to throw it farther, then along came the crossbow. Not to mention the sling, of which David slew Goliath with.

Yes Chinese invented gun powder, not only for weapons, but also to create fireworks for celebrations.

I think you get my point on the fact that humans kill other humans, always have, always will. To remove technology away from good human beings is oppression and tyrannical, all for the ideology disguised to protect us from each other is stupid, as the bad human beings don't care and will still kill, but you've made it easier for the bad humans to do so.

And to your point about anyone having the RIGHT to carry a weapon if there not stable enough to do so, is scary. However, that's a very slippery slope your willing to take our society down. Who has the authority to deem someone as dangerous, who hasn't displayed dangerous behavior. Who out there can read minds or see into the future to tell who is going to commit a crime some time in the future and prevent them from committing that crime, or should we all agree to have our freedom infringed upon, for the sake of the vast minority that are capable of such horrible acts. Where does it stop and who is omnipresent enough to arbitrate fair and equal treatment for all without being wrong.

Sorry, your ideology falls flat with me. I prefer to have the right to live within society peacefully, and have the right to use available technology to protect myself, my family, as well as other peaceful human beings, unfettered by tyranny and oppression.
Click to expand...

And I would rather live in a society where I wasn't so afraid that I had to carry a gun. Which is the society I live in now. Can't say for sure that I will feel that way when way more people are carrying guns everywhere.
 
I am a law abiding gun owner and 2nd amendment advocate, but for Christ's sake you boobs have managed to hijack a thread created to report and check on the condition of a man whom was struck with a jack handle.

Guns should have never been brought into this thread. Anyone who has commented in defense of guns are just feeding ammo (no pun intended) to those who oppose them and vice versa.

Can we please bring the thread back to square-one? Brian, I wish you a speedy recovery and hope that you can climb back into your car and race again soon. Good Luck!
 
Thank you t.nie, finally some voice of reason on this “gun highjacked” forum. Moonflow, when you made your moment, i could hear the gun’s lock and load off the screen of my computer!

Here’s something that will scare you, liberals have guns too. I am veteran, I own guns but I don’t think the government is going to take them away. If you listen to the “news” that supports your ideals you are told and believe otherwise.

I was racing at a track where someone pulled a gun in a pit argument (Saugus Speedway, CA early ’90’s it was then Nascar sanctioned.) He was banned for life! It wasn’t ideal publicity for the track.
I know what your thinking California the land of the fruits and nuts… and isn’t California where they make the gun companies put all those crazy extra safety items.

…trust people and so would rather force them into what you consider safe… Right on baby!! Tear down all the speed limit signs, no one is going to tell me how fast I can drive! As a society we all live with rules and laws. Some based unfortunately on religious dogma.

The sad fact is the majority of NRA members want a stronger background checks to keep guns out of the hands of the worst among us. But the NRA leadership is the pockets of the gun and ammunition companies.

You go to a Rams game and other large sporting event, you go through pretty heavy security. There was a metal detector at the front gate at Irwindale Speedway (CA) for a time after 9-11. I would be concerned about small local tracks, some spectators could be apprehensive to sit in a crowd, thinking and knowing some of these people have guns. Just like the church, that would not let you in with a gun. In my young school days the Franciscan priests teachers could use their rope belt like a weapon. I can’t imagine a priest with gun, but if you say so…

Get well soon Brian, racing is what it’s all about!!!

JP
 
big swigg said:
From Brian's wife sandy.......



Awesome news!!!! Brian got to come home from hospital today....he will be doing out patient therapy..we have a ways yet until he is recovered but everything so far is looking good...we would like to thank everyone for all the prayers,texts,calls,and all of you that came to visit him..we are so blessed to have each and everyone of you in our lives...again thank you and God bless all of you..
Click to expand...
Great news!
 
You all sound ignorant having a gun debate on stlRACING.com... that being said I hope Brian recovers soon and I'm looking forward to seeing him come back to tricity.
 
I am confused, is this thread about guns or Brian Shaw? I believe Brian, and I pray he has a full and speedy recovery. It doesn't really matter what happened, what DOES matter is that Brian is still alive and is going to be okay! It is ignorant that any one would try and justify this horrible incident, especially people that do not know the story, and from what I have read I have found one person one here that knows the story, Buddhajoe. So maybe we should all just keep our comments about Brian, his crew and family to ourselves unless they are positive and wishing him well. We all need to remember that if this was any of our family members we wouldn't want to be reading stuff like this on any website. Him and his family are hurt, they don't need to be seeing ridiculous posts like the ones on here. Prayers being sent their way. Hoping for a speedy recovery, can't wait to see you back on the track.
 
The thread was started to report a violent assault on a racer, in the pits at a racetrack. As this is the type of incident that many gun advocates and CCW advocates point to as a moment when they need to have their weapons available to them (i.e. a violent life threatening situation) for self defense, it is a very good opportunity to discuss that issue.

I think the debate was civil, and it was an opportunity for some to hear different viewpoints on that issue. I would say be glad we were not discussing the death of a racer, fan or bystander due to the use of a gun in the pits instead. What I learned during the course of this conversation is yes, people are carrying guns at your local racetrack now. I find that informative.

I do not think there has been any disrespect shown to Mr. Shaw, his family, or those who are impacted by the terrible event that occurred. Sorry if you feel this thread was "hi-jacked" but you are not in your own home, talking with your family when they changed the subject on you. You are posting on a public forum, and topics like this spark a lot of discussion about related issues.

Please note this was not a condolences on your loss thread, or a request for prayers thread, it was a thread that started with a "report" statement that a racer was assaulted in the pits. So, that being the case, this thread was not hi-jacked, it was simply a discussion of some related issues relevant to what took place, i.e. self-defense, guns for personal protection, etc.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/06/us/chicago-gun-ban/

(CNN) -- A federal judge ruled Monday that Chicago's ban on virtually all sales and transfers of firearms is unconstitutional.

"The stark reality facing the City each year is thousands of shooting victims and hundreds of murders committed with a gun. But on the other side of this case is another feature of government: certain fundamental rights are protected by the Constitution, put outside government's reach, including the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense under the Second Amendment," wrote U.S. District Judge Edmond Chang.

No. Chicago is not a gun free city. And the attempt to ban sales/transfers of guns in the city was deemed unconstitutional as well.

The only limit is: Chicago has banned the possession of certain semi-automatic firearms that it defines as assault weapons, as well as magazines that can hold more than 15 rounds of ammunition.[35]
 
Glad to hear brian is doing better and is home Now let justice take its course Whatever happened someone needs held accountable and im sure it will all come out eventually
 
You must log in or register to reply here.




Back
Top