hey bleedblue

i went through all this on a different issue last year and nothing was done. last year, i saw people grind tires, put them on the cars (in the pit area) and then spray 'track tac' on their tires and nothing was said by track or UMP officials. i think this tire prep stuff if bs, but i dont think it is the biggest problem. i have about a 7,000 engine that i ran in my sportsman last year, and there are guys out there spending 20,000 to 30,000 on modified engines. yeah, i dont have near that much in my whole car. UMP says that is why their is a claim rule. sit back and think for a second, if i tried to claim somebodies motor what do you think would happen? first of they would deny it, second of all there would probably be a fight, or somebody would get shot, or something else silly.
 
The trac tac stuff is why the nascar way of distributing tires would not work, this or something similar was used at the race in Florida when several racers were caught and said the got the tires straight from the truck.
 
The day of racing for the fun of it is over with. You have to have deep and I mean VERY DEEP pockets to compete now. I was a nickel and dime operation this is one of the reasons I sold out. The other is when other drivers needed to cheat and win. I still go to the races and cheer on some of the guys I still know. To get in it again NO!! To much BS now.
 
You are the MAN!!!!!!
ExRacer said:
The day of racing for the fun of it is over with. You have to have deep and I mean VERY DEEP pockets to compete now. I was a nickel and dime operation this is one of the reasons I sold out. The other is when other drivers needed to cheat and win. I still go to the races and cheer on some of the guys I still know. To get in it again NO!! To much BS now.
Click to expand...
 
i personaly think i am done racing for a while. i am not going to cheat my tires up, spend $30,000 on an engine, or lower my interior 2 inches cuz UMP told me not to bring it back to the track til i had it lowered. Rear deck height 2 inches too high is the least of ump's worries but thats what they choose to police. i will just work 12 hours a day six days a week and totally lose interest in a sport i have loved for so long because of cheaters and deep pockets
 
SmithRacing55 said:
i personaly think i am done racing for a while. i am not going to cheat my tires up, spend $30,000 on an engine, or lower my interior 2 inches cuz UMP told me not to bring it back to the track til i had it lowered. Rear deck height 2 inches too high is the least of ump's worries but thats what they choose to police. i will just work 12 hours a day six days a week and totally lose interest in a sport i have loved for so long because of cheaters and deep pockets
Click to expand...
You are not the only one...
 
i think ump should send an official to all the track's this guy goes to and does what he does and take a tire from one of the driver's that is suspected to have recieved product's from this guy from each of these tracks that this guy goes to send the tire in to be tested to see if it has been treated with chemical's or not and if the test comes out positive this driver should be suspended the rest of the yr.from all ump event's no matter who this driver is and the track's that this driver usually race's at should back the ump suspension
 
Since Bleedblues tire dope is supposedly "undetectable", Perhaps there is an honest racer out there who is willing to purchase a gallon of it from him and donate it to UMP so their labs will know what to look for.
 
Stirring up a hornet's nest

Jimmy D, God love you man. Did you have any idea what you were stirring up?

[video=youtube_share;bofEUv6ZYH4]http://youtu.be/bofEUv6ZYH4[/video]
 
Everyone has a solution on what to do when someone is caught, but who will pay the bill to catch the cheaters....

test price per tire - $300

$300 x 22 cars = $6600 x 4 classes = $26,000 every week x 20 races =$520,000 per year

$300 x top 5 cars = $1500 x 4 classes = $6000 every week x 20 races = $120,000 per year

$300 x top 5 cars = $1500 x 3 classes = $4500 every week x 20 races = $90,000

$300 x top 5 cars = $1500 x 2 classes = $3000 every week x 20 races = $60,000

$300 x top 5 cars = $1500 x 1 class = $1500 every week x 20 races = $30,000

$300 x top 3 cars = $900 x 4 classes = $3600 every week x 20 races = $72,000

$300 x top 3 cars = $900 x 3 classes = $2700 every week x 20 races = $54,000

$300 x top 3 cars = $900 x 2 classes = $1800 every week x 20 races = $36,000

Who will pay this?

The drivers?... Double the cost of pit passes?

The fans?... Triple the cost of admission?
 
WOODN50 said:
The fans?... Triple the cost of admission?
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Nice to see the numbers, where does the info come from. As for the cost for admission tripled??? some guys on here are willing to pay $40 bucks a pop for late models. Why not?
 
Initial tire test at the lab is only $50... But if anything is at all suspicious with the initial test, it is $300 for further testing.
 
jdearing said:
Initial tire test at the lab is only $50... But if anything is at all suspicious with the initial test, it is $300 for further testing.
Click to expand...


$50 x top 5 cars = $250 x 4 classes = $1000 per week x 20 races = $20,000 per year


Who will pay this?
 
Here is a post right from Track Tac's Facebook page by the company...

Car racer beware if you fail. There is something very wrong with the test results I have seen. Call Chris or myself if you need some help.

and
Very strange results coming from test labs on car tires. Chemicals missing from test tires vs "std tire" and the reverse. Rotten in D'mark?
 
Not sure where you got the price for the lab test. But I'll bet your about 6 times too high. Can you document where that cost came from? (sorry, not trying to be a smart azz, I just have heard a different cost of around $50 from a reliable source)

IMO the solution is two fold (and I am just thinking aloud here).

1. Discretionary and random track/promoter testing.... Hold the race earnings of the driver(s) in question until the lab results are in. (usually a week) The fine for a cheater tire will be loss of that nights earnings plus the cost of the testing. Throw on top of that a $500 probationary fine for first time offenders to cover the cost of future mandatory testings on that driver (half of which could be refunded after 2 consecutive negative test results). Future failed test would obviously result in stiffer fines and suspensions.

2. Tire Protest....(Penalty for a failed test same as above) Any competitor may protest a top 5 cars tire/tires for a cost of the testing plus $175/tire. (in fairness, prize money of both the protestor and protestee will be held until the test results are final) The $175/tire will be awarded to the protested driver if his tire test is negative . If the test if positive protestor receives all money back minus the cost of the test, plus 1/3 of the cheaters forfeited prize money.

To finance the first year of this, take the kickback money from Hoosier (which is usually added to the tracks yearend points fund money) The cheaters are more than likely getting the bulk of it anyway, so those who may whine about it at first will benefit when the cheaters get caught.

If my cost of around $50/tire is correct, two or three cheaters getting caught could finance a big portion (if not all) of the seasons testing (any surplus could be added back to the yearend points fund). No need to test all four tires on a car, no need to test all classes, and no need to test every week if you allow a tire protest policy (and the drivers use it). Those who are using cheater tires is becoming pretty obvious to those of us who are getting beat by them.
 
Testing doesn't have to be done EVERY week. Hit two or three cars every other week. Plus allow protest of tires and have protester pay testing fee.
 
jdearing said:
Here is a post right from Track Tac's Facebook page by the company...

Car racer beware if you fail. There is something very wrong with the test results I have seen. Call Chris or myself if you need some help.

and
Very strange results coming from test labs on car tires. Chemicals missing from test tires vs "std tire" and the reverse. Rotten in D'mark?
Click to expand...

Was just talking privately about these "undetectable" chemicals with someone who brought up a valid point about how obsured this is....."They (labratories) can get DNA off of a cigarette butt that was thrown on the ground 3 weeks ago, Do you really think they can't detect a substance added to a rubber tire?"
 
The sniffer at the track is what isn't detecting these. They don't register on the sniffer so they may not take samples and send to the lab.
kingeddy said:
Was just talking privately about these "undetectable" chemicals with someone who brought up a valid point about how obsured this is....."They (labratories) can get DNA off of a cigarette butt that was thrown on the ground 3 weeks ago, Do you really think they can't detect a substance added to a rubber tire?"
Click to expand...
 
kingeddy said:
Not sure where you got the price for the lab test. But I'll bet your about 6 times too high. Can you document where that cost came from? (sorry, not trying to be a smart azz, I just have heard a different cost of around $50 from a reliable source)
Click to expand...


Official Press Release from Lucas Oil Late Model Dirt Series:



Penalties Levied for Tire Rule Infraction at Spring Thaw at Volunteer SpeedwayCORONA, CA (March 22, 2010) - Officials of the Lucas Oil Late Model Dirt Series announce an independent lab determined that samples from a tire that Chris Madden used to compete with at the Spring Thaw at Volunteer Speedway in Bulls Gap, TN had been chemically altered before it was used in the Lucas Oil Late Model Dirt Series sanctioned heat race on March 6, 2010 at Volunteer Speedway.



The following penalties were handed down in accordance to the LOLMDS rulebook for anyone competing with a chemically altered tire during competition at a LOLMDS sanctioned event. The Spring Thaw at Volunteer Speedway on March 6th, 2010 was a sanctioned LOLMDS event with a contract and insurance in place at the time of this occurrence. The Lucas Oil Late Model Dirt Series Rulebook States that for a 1st offense: $1,500.00 Fine and 300 points plus any winnings that have accrued for the event, violator will assume all costs included in any testing procedures, no points and no winners circle money will be awarded for that event.


In total, Mr. Madden is being fined 300 points, plus the $1500 fine, $300 in lab testing fees, the $5,000 winnings for his 2nd place finish in the feature event, for a total of $6,800.00. The portion of the fines making up his winnings from the Spring Thaw will be redistributed to the track and drivers feature finishing order. Due to this disqualification, the points from the event will be adjusted accordingly.


A tire sample was collected from both Ray Cook and Jimmy Owens from the Spring Thaw event March 6th at Volunteer Speedway that were tested and found to be legal. A tire sample was also collected from Scott Bloomquist and Chris Wall at the March Madness event March 7th at Cherokee Speedway that were tested and found to be legal.
 
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