Some Decisions Have Been Made!

No offense here Sean..........

Sean, I do understand your point, and it would seem that you understand mine. Here is where we differ. I think that the Rock would benefit from doing something different, and offering something that no other track in our area offers. I have asked quite a few people about running there, and it's all been favorable. I'm also looking at talking with Poplar Bluff to see if they would be interested in this. That would be a Friday night track, and a Saturday night track. This will also help a lot of guys running modifieds, move up to a Late Model for little cost. Have a great holiday season, and a very Happy New Year.
 
ULMA for the Late Models allows crates to run with steel block and head limited LM.
Better for the car count with so many other tracks running crate this series and crate that series. Just who can they affiliate with that will still be around next year? I have seen several tracks shuffle their crate affiliation and even drop the crates. Don't get caught up in getting locked in on just running a Chevy that you have to buy from limited sources. support your local engine builder and go with a ULMA steel block late model.
for rules go to ulmaracing.com
 
We ran an ULMA bottom end for 4 years without touching it. Cost was about 4,000.
A good set of heads with top quality roller springs and rockers will run you another $1.500. All in all, yes you can have 10 grand in an ULMA engine. But a lot of the cost of the engine is the add on parts like the intake and distributor, and carb etc that you can keep reusing.
Even a crate engine will cost you 5 grand and you still have to add carb, ignition etc. But you still have to send it off to someone (can you trust just anyone with a racing engine?) to refresh it every year. So do you really save much going crate over a limited engine combination?
Whatever rules you decide to go by, just be prepared to live with them and don't expect people to come race just because you have x sanction. Flexibility in the rules will allow more cars to run and make the overall show better. Limiting the rules also limits availability of sponsorship options.
Choose whatever you want for sanctioning. Just carefully consider each and every possibility and get it right the first time. Don't put the local promoter in a situation where they cannot pay sanction fees if car count is not up to par. if the promoter don't make money, you are not going to be racing there for long.

Just my opinion.
 
Todd, I agree

Todd, I think that's what happened toward the end of last year. The car counts were down, and they couldn't afford the sanctioning fees. With ULMA, crates can run,and there are no sanctioning fees. Sounds like a win/win if the car count increases.
 
What you guys are not understanding is that very few crates will race with the ulma if there is a close track that is crate only ,that is where they will go.The only time they will is if there track is rained out.You might have a couple but most will stay with outher crate cars.
Just watch Calloway drop back down to 6-8 cars like they had before they started running crates.
 
Crates are not for everybody. And part of the reason more ULMA cars did not show up to Callaway was because there was lots of talk about crates being rough drivers and ULMA cars did not want to get tore up.
Hopefully this year more ULMA will come since it is ULMA only. Dont be so bitter, you had a track and lost out. ULMA is a great deal for drivers not wanting to run crates. The top guys are NOT running 20000+ motors. Rollert does not have that much, estes was selling the whole operation for less than that. Not all ULMA motors cost two arms and legs and not all blow up like you imply.
 
As I've stated before, FASTRAK is a CRATE MOTOR class, period. It's designed that way and it's a strong class. Nothing against limiteds and nothing against running with them occasionally, but our focus remains the same. Affordable racing with good purses and a strong teching system. Things are not perfect in any series, but we're 5 years strong since inception and 3 years strong in this area. I wish tracks would stay more loyal to a class so counts can increase. It makes it hard for new drivers to enter new classes when they don't know if they'll be around next year. Crate cars are here to stay and we've grown. The most successful tracks are those that are sticking with the class for more than a year and allowing new drivers to see the benefit. You cannot beat the purse with this series.

Let's not talk about crates being rough drivers. Every class has rough drivers (from inexperience, poor track conditions, bad sportsmanship). No class is exempt from these kinds of drivers, so let's not act like this is a big deal.

I think we have 2 different issues here. Neither is bad. You have limiteds, supers, and you have crates. How much different is that than sprints, 305s, 360s, and 410s. It's a difference in horsepower and costs to run.

FASTRAK will continue with its program as is and all this suggestion of opening up the engine rules to allow mods to switch motors, limiteds to run same weight, etc. is not likely to happen and flys in the face of the mission of our series.

I'm not trying to be harsh or nasty, but let's grow our sport by filling in needed voids and not by creating multiple series' or classes trying to accomplish the same thing. ULMA has a good thing going for the limiteds. Focus on the rules for your class and build from there. Combining these 2 classes doesn't accomplish what a crate motor class is designed for.

Good luck on promoting your class and may it do well!

I won't bore this thread any longer with statistics, but I have them supporting the growth in this series and would be happy to talk to any racer, track promotor, etc. to prove that FASTRAK is a proven and stable crate motor late model class!
 
The talk was about the crate cars tearing up alot at Callaway, So many of the ULMA guys steered clear because why go there to tear up your car when you can go other places and keep your car in one piece.

It was not a comment that all crate guys crash alot, just alot of rough driving at that track, and with the crate guys. I did not go there, did not want to get torn up, but recieved emails talking about how bad it was getting, and how people were keeping away because of it.
 
I think you'll be asking too much out of the ULMA guys to travel to Fredericktown every week. I know that you will say not so, but in order for a class to go, like has been stated before, the car counts need to come from local. Guys will promise certain things and they'll truely believe themselves and they will come out in force the 1st couple of nights but then it will fall off, for this reason or that, especially when traveling over 1 hr to race I know there are a few guys in the Fredericktown area building crates for this season, so I feel like the local buildup has begun. What I saw in Illinois was a mushrooming effect on car counts where once racers see a track doing the same thing for longer than 1 season and know that it will be there, the cars begin to come out of the woodworks. I feel there shouldnt be any question as to who comes in besides crates, at least until it's given a good chance(which IS longer than 1 season) I"m pretty damn confident that next winter, you'll look back on this and say "Why'd we even consider anything else" Thats how in worked in Illinois over the last 3 seasons, It SNOWBALLED!!

To the one who says over 100 Super guys ran, dont be ridiculous. Very few ran with us but of the ones who did Dixon, Oller, Rayfield, they ran quite a bit. And who cares what they run on Sat. Nights, this is a Friday Night track. And even though I dont like the rule allowing LM guys to run crate, it just might create alot of new crate guys, even some who do the deal like Oller did. He got to race on Friday and Saturday, had fun and got to do what he loves to do, and only put 1 night a week on his super motor. He paid for his crate motor through savings on rebuilds on his super motor.

Sean, That class will be held Dec. 25th, because every time I think about that ruling, It's like Christmas lol
 
Looking for locals to run ULMA

I think you'll see the class grow as Locals have the option to run there under the ULMA umbrella. Not the guys from the West side of the state traveling there to run. That will be an option that you'll see some exercise, but the better part of the cars that you see will be locals that either ran Modifieds and now want to move up to Late Models, or guys that tried running steel blocks, etc at Pevely and now can run at the Rock. This thing will grow and eventually will be a GREAT class with good car counts. Look at Lucas Oil Speedway, Calloway, etc. It's catching, and ULMA has added several new tracks just this year. GO ULMA!!
 
"Good luck in whatever you choose, if you go ULMA you will not be sorry over it and will get some traveling cars coming in for some fun. There are no sanctioning fees for the track with ULMA, and it is non-profit. They did just add impact racing as a sponsor and have some others they are getting and already have."

We would like nothing more than to be able to try another Friday Night track. I hear Fredricktown is a good track but they have never had a class we could run with. I don't mind a 3 hour tow a couple times a year to try a new track. Competing with new racers and meeting new people is part of the rush of racing a new track. Allowing ULMA rules, which includes the crate motors is the best of both worlds. The drivers get their Ford and Mopar. The fans get their Ford and Mopars. Creating some competition has to include the manufacturers battles. Giving the sponsors new exposure can only be better for everyone expanding their sponsorship opportunities by entering new markets.

I have seen a lot of tracks try the crates. Seems like every year they come and they go.
One of the biggest problems with the weekly tracks is that everyone seems to want their own, exclusive set of rules. When you get locked in to a rules trap, you pretty much have to race there, like it or not. I have several UMP tracks close and wouldn't mind taking the limited LM to a couple shows, but theres that damn tire rule. Hoosier M series, and we all have Hoosier D-55. So you gotta fork out $1800.00 for 4 wheels and two spares. Things like that really take the fun out of racing. But being able to load up and run what ya brung (within ULMA rules) at other tracks makes racing more fun than being locked in to a couple tracks because of rules.

I don't understand why the crate guys are so aprehensive about running with an ULMA sanction when they can have it both ways and run with crates at other tracks as well.
As evidenced by one of the front page stories about the stormpay guy getting caught cheating, the crate series is not as squeaky clean as they try to make it sound. And the guys winning the big money shows aren't just local weekly racers. The money sounds good. But really, how much national point money actually went to the local, short track crate drivers?
I really think that opening up the rules, and combining crates and ULMA is a good way to start off a class. A guy with a modified engine is more likely to jump into a late model if he can manage the engine rules of steel block and steel heads. But how many guys want to go buy a whole engine just to try a class when they already have something that can run right now? I considered running a crate until I found out they didn't allow Fords. Running with ULMA sanction became a natural fit and we had plenty of options of where to run on a given night. I realize all the die hard Chevy guys would like nothing more than to squeeze out the other brands. When a crate class has an engine monopoly, and a track monopoly, it pretty much makes a class monotony.
I also know that there was always a lot of excitement at Callaway in the modified class when Michael Long brought his Ford down from Quincy to run against Steve Payne and Danny Crane. People loved the rivalry between the Ford and the Chevy!

Ok I have rambled on long enough. Exactly what do the racers at the Rock have to lose by trying a ULMA/crate class? Make it easy for the promoters. Don't make them lock in on sanctioning fees for at least the first year. You are never going to know how it will work until people step up and make a decision.
 
Another reason car count at Callaway was short was the purse. We could run at Valley and 10th place paid better than 4th place. 100 to start beats 40 to start every day.
They finally brought the winning money higher, but payout back was a joke. Of the four tracks that were ULMA points tracks, Callaway was the lowest purse.
Callaway has promised better money for 2008. I think they finally realized that late models cannot run for street stock purses and get a good car count of quality cars.
 
Todd, there's truth in that, too...............

Purses drive car counts, too. I remember when Malden opened and they paid modifieds $1000 to win every Friday night if they got 30 cars. Shoot, they had 35-40 to make the drive and they paid $75 to start. That's good money for a modified.
You can't run a Late Model for street stock purses either. Tires, wheels, shocks, upkeep, etc. costs too much. I'm not saying that they have to have $1000 to win, $200 to start purses either. Just moderate purses for a Limited-type late Model car. I look forward to seeing you at the Rock, Todd. It'll be a good time.
 
locals

All the talk about locals making the class, do not count on that to work. ALL of the A-MODS were local and we were the ones to get booted.......
 
You drop the weight for crates to 2250,602, 2300, 604, 2450-ULMA and I'll tell everyone on here that ULMA is the way to go. I'm no dummy, I've ran both Crate and Steel Block, and theres no way that a crate is on an equal playin field with the current rules, so If you want the crate guys on board, change'em.

I dont know how bad it's gotten there, but I will tell you, If your sanction came to Illinois(Where there are lots of LM cars period.) Within 1 season, the difference between the top runners motor and back of the pack would be huge!!

We had a great Steel Block class goin here in Il for 4 or 5 seasons a couple years back and by the time it was over, some guys had $20,000 Steel blocks and others had $1,500 dollar ones, it got ridiculous!!

So, I will Guarantee you that crate racing on it's worst day wont have as big a variance in competition as any steel block class out there. The most cheated up crate motor out there wont do no good at Fredericktown againest legals.

I've seen your class, I like it, but from what I see, your guys arent as serious about LM racing as these guys around here, Here in Il., these guys would ruin your class, so I think around here, you either run crate and they only cheat 20 hp if they got lots of jack or they run super and have motors just like the others. If these guys ran ULMA, there'd be a 50-75hp differnce between some

JMO
 
JPR, the problem with mods, is............

The problem with modifieds, is that there are lots of other tracks running them. I have a modified, and I can run Benton, Pevely, Farmington, Malden, Poplar Bluff, Belle Claire, Mt. Vernon, Paducah, or Calvert City. With that many tracks, you dilute the car count and no track has a good count.
Fredricktown would be the only ULMA track in the area so they would have "cornered the Market" so to speak. I think it's great and I can't wait. Go ULMA!!
 
Groove Grabber said:
You drop the weight for crates to 2250,602, 2300, 604, 2450-ULMA and I'll tell everyone on here that ULMA is the way to go. I'm no dummy, I've ran both Crate and Steel Block, and theres no way that a crate is on an equal playin field with the current rules, so If you want the crate guys on board, change'em.

I dont know how bad it's gotten there, but I will tell you, If your sanction came to Illinois(Where there are lots of LM cars period.) Within 1 season, the difference between the top runners motor and back of the pack would be huge!!

We had a great Steel Block class goin here in Il for 4 or 5 seasons a couple years back and by the time it was over, some guys had $20,000 Steel blocks and others had $1,500 dollar ones, it got ridiculous!!

So, I will Guarantee you that crate racing on it's worst day wont have as big a variance in competition as any steel block class out there. The most cheated up crate motor out there wont do no good at Fredericktown againest legals.

I've seen your class, I like it, but from what I see, your guys arent as serious about LM racing as these guys around here, Here in Il., these guys would ruin your class, so I think around here, you either run crate and they only cheat 20 hp if they got lots of jack or they run super and have motors just like the others. If these guys ran ULMA, there'd be a 50-75hp differnce between some

JMO
Click to expand...

To keep crates at their weight and ULMA at thiers would be the duel series deal, with crate sanctioning and ULMA, like callaway did. The crate cars could not get ULMA points but could run thier lower weight limit.

The guys from around you will not be any faster than we are. We have guys running top 10's in MLRA vs MARS shows. There are big motors in our class but many that are not. Alot of MLRA guys are stepping down to run this series. You may have seen some of the ULMA cars run, but we are not much off of a open car and can keep up with them. Your locals may be good but they are not any better than us, you must remember this is the first year for them, and you only have seen a few of the cars. Schlup is fast, Menzie is fast, Rollert is fast, Estes is fast, Kings are fast, many of them have ran ULMA cars at open shows with good results. So I would not look for your local guys to wax the ULMA crew now, will they run good yes, but not run away. We do welcome a challenge though.
There are many cars pushing the max for 23 deg motors hp wise, within the rules you really cannot go much higher. These guys have the money motors and do overpower the track sometimes and can be beat with littler motors. There are also some cars running motors that a crate would out HP with ease. At the lucas oil special at the end of the season the ULMA put on a closer show than MARS or MLRA did this year. On a given night there might be 5 slow cars, and 5 medium cars and 10 cars that fight hard and up front. We have very very close racing, and more than 1 or 2 cars are fast.
Will there be a motor difference, yes but that is part of the ULMA, some cars overpower the track some dont. You can only get so much out of an all steel 23 deg wet sump motor. Same as mods, you have some good motors and some bad and some middle of the road.


But to answer your, you would be on board for the weight brake.

Try the duel rules deal, ULMA cars run under ULMA banner and Crates run under Crate banner, crates get the different tires and lighter cars.
 
Your only talking 2400 vs 2450, thats nowhere close. also, you guys should really consider phasing out the D-55 and going to the WRS-55, it's a great tire, awhole lot less maintenance for the racer because its already grooved.
 
The tire we run is d-55 compound with WRS stamped on the side, same as MARS and MLRA runs.

What is the weight on crates now for your series that you run? If you do the duel sanc. then you would run under your own rules and ULMA cars under thiers. The cars seemed to be a good match that way at Callaway, that w...18 won some in a crate, some ULMA won some.
 
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