I never said a coward. Kreke straight up said he accepted his 30 day suspension. And yes he should not have gone over there. But I do not accept the fact that it is the norm the last few years to use your car or 4-wheeler as a weapon. But the deal with the added suspension then add Brent onto it is bogus. Bottom line. That is my point in it all !!!!
0Your thoughs on UMP Good/Bad?? - Belle-Clair Speedway not so sure from a Facebook post I just read.
- Thread starter nathans1012
- Start date
I for 1 never get why the crews fight, the driver's are the one's in the car doing battle and have the beef with each other. Do I get pissed watching sometimes, of course, but i dont get in a fight with the guy that spins out every week. What it boils down to, if you drive like an idiot, be ready to be hit in the head, otherwise keep the fenders and bumpers to yourself.
Kermit the Frog
Well-Known Member
Lets get this post back on task here does anyone besides me want UMP to stay at Belleville I think this is a speak now or forever hold your peace moment
UMP has far outlived its useful to the racing in this area, it is way past detrimental to the sport. If we do not get the local racer racing at the local track this sport will turn in to a club with no spectators except wives and children. Only the wealthy will be left in. After a year or two UMP will bring their traveling show back to the tracks that dumped them. It will be their only source of revenue.
If they drop UMP, then they won't be getting anymore WoO shows either (same ownership group). As I mentioned in a previous post, unless 3 or 4 other area tracks are going to do it as well, then they will have a tough time making it on their own. For those of you who are doubting my last statement, go to 4m.net and read their thread about this issue. Peoria and Farmer City both tried dropping UMP in the past, but they both failed and had to rejoin UMP.
Doug
Announcer
If it's being done for the right reasons, I'm all for it, and am excited to see Don take a stand. But first ask yourself this question - would you rather dance with the devil you know or the devil you don't? Remember someone has to fund this thing, and the last time a large group of Americans were promised hope and change... well, you can finish that thought as you see fit.
IF Brent has a problem with it (I don't know if he does), then his issue should be with his dad, since his immaturity is what caused Brent to be suspended.
chipwhitley66
New Member
You and your teams trash along with Kiefer ... You blasted me over facebook stating I was a Kiefer fan when I told you several times that I wasn't. You even threatened my life over it LOL...you're a child ... Learn to be an adult and let your cry baby son handle his own battles. If you wouldn't have grabbed Kiefer by the throat he wouldn't have ran your dumb@$$ over and you wouldn't have screwed your squirrely ass son out of seat time to better his terribleness. Thought you were the man of the lord?
Chips back baby!
Chips back baby!
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t.nie
Patience Tester
Who says you have to dance with any devil at all?
I think in this economy, in this day and age, under these circumstances, continuing to follow the model for running a successful racetrack (i.e. SLM, Modified, purse structure, UMP sanction, Hoosier tires, etc.) that was developed 15-20 years ago is probably not the best way forward for every track.
I still think that if someone in the right area were to develop a racing program based on the current economy and demographic of the people within the catchment area of that track, they could develop a thriving race track without UMP, SLMS or Modifieds in the weekly show. All it takes is some ingenuity and a willingness to take the risk.
I watched Moneyball with interest, because it showed that putting some thought into what is possible without unlimited money can yield tremendous results and profits, that you can break with tradition and be successful, and I really liked the comment at the end by the Red Sox owner to Billy Bean about "the first guy through the door always gets bloody, it's change and people don't like change."
The first track to break this mold is going to go through some struggles, but if approached the right way, it could be the future of racing around here. Some tracks will stay with UMP because it makes sense for them too, but for a lot of the smaller tracks, it's really time to try something new.
Lizardracing
race it, don't rice it!
It hadn't been. It's true the track followed suit while all tracks in Mid Mo were UMP just a few years ago. Car counts have risen everywhere in Mid Mo because of the switch I believe. If anything the USRA administration just seem to care more and I think racers and promotors are feeling that as well.
The only real way to get the true input to the UMP deal, is to talk to the drivers and car owners at all the tracks around here, one on one. Then get the track promoters together and let them see what the pros and cons could be. United you stand divided you fall. No one wants any track to fail, and some tracks are struggling. Just support your track and promoter NO MATTER WHAT.
Jimmy Cummins
CEO, Cummins Lumber Co.
I think they should KEEP UMP. I think dropping their sanction in the area would affect racing a lot more than people think. I enjoy racing for a regional or national point fund. I think a lot more people have benefitted from racing for UMP points than people think, I could make a huge list.
t.nie
Patience Tester
Jimmy, I think the list of people who have paid UMP and got nothing in particular back would be 4 times the list of people who did. By the very design of it, for UMP to make money, a whole lot of people have to pay in and get nothing back.
Have you ever seen a UMP event with a big corporate sponsor putting money in? Take a look a the list of sponsors for UMP, there's none on that list that isn't a racing related company. The majority of those companies aren't putting cash in, they just donate some parts, etc, in exchange for getting their name out there. The cash is all from the racers being redistributed to the winners.
That's what the racers object to, putting more money in than they get back. Sure, if you are a points racer, etc, you want everyone else funding UMP so you get your stuff. But from 5th on back at any track in any division on any given night, those guys are paying their cash to fund your point fund. The majority of racers aren't getting anything out of being a UMP member, they just pay to play because UMP wants it that way.
Have you ever seen a UMP event with a big corporate sponsor putting money in? Take a look a the list of sponsors for UMP, there's none on that list that isn't a racing related company. The majority of those companies aren't putting cash in, they just donate some parts, etc, in exchange for getting their name out there. The cash is all from the racers being redistributed to the winners.
That's what the racers object to, putting more money in than they get back. Sure, if you are a points racer, etc, you want everyone else funding UMP so you get your stuff. But from 5th on back at any track in any division on any given night, those guys are paying their cash to fund your point fund. The majority of racers aren't getting anything out of being a UMP member, they just pay to play because UMP wants it that way.
biker6403
dirt tracks 4 ever
....and don't post the comments/answers on the Internet to be judged and subject to criticism by the uninformed or the un-intelligent...Just a thought!
FIREBALL
Well-Known Member
I am going to create a post on ump membership and what happens when a group shoots it self in the foot because they did not see the writing on the wall or missed it on purpose.............................if you think I am just blowing smoke well 50 years doing what I love and I promoted some racing and was on the aara board....................lenny garson
dirt hound
Registered User
YES UMP is terrible that why they only had 144 cars last friday night at tri city and close to a 100 cars at I55 it should 've been double that what a shame
24floz
New Member
Competitive motorsports has been my most enjoyable recreation for the better part of 30 years. Depending on the toy I want to play with or the arena I dare to enter it has always been the same story. Man and machine…then man and machine vs. man and machine as the natural progression. Same for the female competitors so please don’t flame me lol. My experiences have taught me that competitors are not satisfied with standing next to their shiny toy and smiling as others ogle. Racers have a need to take their machines and all the risks associated with racing and prove their work. Whether the work is in fabrication, innovation or developed skills the competitor enters the arena and lays it out.
We naturally get to a competitive atmosphere that requires a definition of boundaries and requirements for many reasons. Sanctioning bodies give us a field to play on with established parameters to ensure we bring a gun to a gunfight/knife to a knife fight. Key to the competition is what WE bring to the fight WE choose to fight. Is the Late Model class getting too defined for a local racer to compete weekly and learn how to be a premiere driver? Is there a need to build an intricate set of rules to define a field of local premiere or near premiere drivers when a touring division already has that? Does that discourage someone from trying to compete?
All the preparations and hard work on our cars for going into a weekly racing event…designed to localize us to a few venues…based on decisions WE as racers did not decide…may have passed its usefulness. Late models across the nation have consistently defined basics on body, structure, safety and drive train. Incorporation of these rules into a simple and flexible format for participants would greatly improve the opportunities for drivers to meet at many different weekly venues, in-lieu of preparing for a national touring event each weekend. Especially when the touring event is only there a couple of times a year. Simply enforcing basic rules and parameters may be the key.
Five easy tech inspections can cover many different Late Model classes competing together. Weigh with a set of scales, measure bodies with a tape measure, durometer tires, validate the engine type, and ensure safety protocols are in place for driver and chassis. As an example, a couple of tracks in the southwest have leveled the field with these simple rules in order to build a local car count and entice the travelling racer. Supers, Steel Blocks, Limiteds, and Crates all have a shot to race. These rules were decided upon by a group of RACERS working together. Only a few of their decisions. See the following:
A. The total weight of the car with the driver will be:
CT525 Crate Engine -2,350 lbs.
602 Crate Engine – 2,250 lbs.
604 Crate Engine – 2,300 lbs.
Any Open Engine – 2,350 lbs.
ALUMINUM BLOCKS – 2350 lbs. with 50 lbs. in front of motor plate (total 2,400 lbs.)
C. All tires are subject to durometer testing at any time.
D. Hoosier D55 E (Economy), Hoosier D55 Spec tires, Hoosier WRS Spec tires and Hoosier WRS2 Spec tires 11 x 86, 88, 90 and 92.
20 years of crewing with/watching the Late Model microcosm and participating this year as a driver emboldened me to post this and tell my story. Keeping this class alive and continuing the expansion/growth of new drivers, through what looks like a transitional period for our Mid-West drivers is my only intention.
Here is my story. Earlier this year when I entered my very first dirt race with this group of racers, who built their rules for their area and economy, I felt like I could bring my knife to a gunfight and have a chance at building my skills to compete in an event the fans and spectators would love to watch. They let the cars in and I went there. Would I have had to meet WOO Super rules…probably never even tried. The last race weekend here had me lined up in a “Drivers Start Your Engines”, nose to the wall display on the front straight. The fans loved the individual introductions of the drivers, simultaneous start of the cars and as a one man owner/crew/driver I felt my 335 mile travel was well worth it that weekend. This was a special show weekend and I made $80 after entrance fees and transport/car fuel cost for both nights. Would do it every weekend that way. Normal nights with my abilities I make $5 after fuel and pit pass expenses down here. If the car is together and work allows, most racers would do like me and call that a success and come back for more!
When did WE as RACERS let a couple dudes decide what WE work for, and implement rules for a few? How much have RACERS lost control of the destiny of OUR sport. It is YOUR car that shows up to pay their bills. Shouldn’t the sport control the industry it evolved from? Do the current sanctioning bodies funnel US into corporate controls based on their rules of participation? WTF/FTW
Thanks for hearing me out and thinking about my questions. Seems like a lot to consider and embrace but five simple inspections and a set of basic safety rules decided by RACERS for THEIR racing could open up the local tracks to resurgence in the Late Model count and racing quality. B-Mains/Consi’s could be the norm again. Promoters get a Late Model show worth selling EVERY night. The sanctioning body becomes a team-mate of the driver, not the enemy or an expense. Would a grass roots nation-wide late model racers association be the way to go…sanction over the sanctions? RACER REVOLUTION!
We naturally get to a competitive atmosphere that requires a definition of boundaries and requirements for many reasons. Sanctioning bodies give us a field to play on with established parameters to ensure we bring a gun to a gunfight/knife to a knife fight. Key to the competition is what WE bring to the fight WE choose to fight. Is the Late Model class getting too defined for a local racer to compete weekly and learn how to be a premiere driver? Is there a need to build an intricate set of rules to define a field of local premiere or near premiere drivers when a touring division already has that? Does that discourage someone from trying to compete?
All the preparations and hard work on our cars for going into a weekly racing event…designed to localize us to a few venues…based on decisions WE as racers did not decide…may have passed its usefulness. Late models across the nation have consistently defined basics on body, structure, safety and drive train. Incorporation of these rules into a simple and flexible format for participants would greatly improve the opportunities for drivers to meet at many different weekly venues, in-lieu of preparing for a national touring event each weekend. Especially when the touring event is only there a couple of times a year. Simply enforcing basic rules and parameters may be the key.
Five easy tech inspections can cover many different Late Model classes competing together. Weigh with a set of scales, measure bodies with a tape measure, durometer tires, validate the engine type, and ensure safety protocols are in place for driver and chassis. As an example, a couple of tracks in the southwest have leveled the field with these simple rules in order to build a local car count and entice the travelling racer. Supers, Steel Blocks, Limiteds, and Crates all have a shot to race. These rules were decided upon by a group of RACERS working together. Only a few of their decisions. See the following:
A. The total weight of the car with the driver will be:
CT525 Crate Engine -2,350 lbs.
602 Crate Engine – 2,250 lbs.
604 Crate Engine – 2,300 lbs.
Any Open Engine – 2,350 lbs.
ALUMINUM BLOCKS – 2350 lbs. with 50 lbs. in front of motor plate (total 2,400 lbs.)
C. All tires are subject to durometer testing at any time.
D. Hoosier D55 E (Economy), Hoosier D55 Spec tires, Hoosier WRS Spec tires and Hoosier WRS2 Spec tires 11 x 86, 88, 90 and 92.
20 years of crewing with/watching the Late Model microcosm and participating this year as a driver emboldened me to post this and tell my story. Keeping this class alive and continuing the expansion/growth of new drivers, through what looks like a transitional period for our Mid-West drivers is my only intention.
Here is my story. Earlier this year when I entered my very first dirt race with this group of racers, who built their rules for their area and economy, I felt like I could bring my knife to a gunfight and have a chance at building my skills to compete in an event the fans and spectators would love to watch. They let the cars in and I went there. Would I have had to meet WOO Super rules…probably never even tried. The last race weekend here had me lined up in a “Drivers Start Your Engines”, nose to the wall display on the front straight. The fans loved the individual introductions of the drivers, simultaneous start of the cars and as a one man owner/crew/driver I felt my 335 mile travel was well worth it that weekend. This was a special show weekend and I made $80 after entrance fees and transport/car fuel cost for both nights. Would do it every weekend that way. Normal nights with my abilities I make $5 after fuel and pit pass expenses down here. If the car is together and work allows, most racers would do like me and call that a success and come back for more!
When did WE as RACERS let a couple dudes decide what WE work for, and implement rules for a few? How much have RACERS lost control of the destiny of OUR sport. It is YOUR car that shows up to pay their bills. Shouldn’t the sport control the industry it evolved from? Do the current sanctioning bodies funnel US into corporate controls based on their rules of participation? WTF/FTW
Thanks for hearing me out and thinking about my questions. Seems like a lot to consider and embrace but five simple inspections and a set of basic safety rules decided by RACERS for THEIR racing could open up the local tracks to resurgence in the Late Model count and racing quality. B-Mains/Consi’s could be the norm again. Promoters get a Late Model show worth selling EVERY night. The sanctioning body becomes a team-mate of the driver, not the enemy or an expense. Would a grass roots nation-wide late model racers association be the way to go…sanction over the sanctions? RACER REVOLUTION!
UMP is about worthless to an average weekend racer. No inspections. Barely any conduct control. Could go on and on... Complete waste of money.
