Allied sportsman tech at the nationals races

i cheated, too! there was this little hot redhead and she was....... oh, wait... sorry; wrong forum... heehee?
 
I cheated acouple of times on my-----? I 'm not that stupid and Art found your date
 

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This class is just out of hand for $300.00 to win. Rules need to be inforced. It shouldnt be up to the drivers to police the rules. I am not going to "bash" AARA in this thread but just to simply make some points.

For those that are spending $10,000+ on there motors is just stupid. $300.00 to win and your spending that on just the motor. If you are spending that too more than likely it isn't legal (with aara rules). I went through the catalog and added up everything with the best money can buy for this class and just parts is around $4500.00. That is with all LEGAL parts and the best Legal parts you can buy. Now if thats how much you got in parts and the $5500+ is labor then you are getting bent over. I know you want a good engine builder that is known for good pieces but come on paying that much in labor would be outragous. About 5 years ago i ran a $2500.00 motor at pevely and was competitive on a weekly basis and won a feature too. Now a days you gotta have more than that but not a $10,000+ motor that is "legal".

As someone else stated the guys cheating or spending $20,000 on there whole operation is going to be what kills this class. Where do you draw the line as far as rules go? Some people will cheat no matter what so rules dont matter to some people. I will not take the driving ability away from some people but it isnt all about that too. A GOOD set of rules needs to be in place. But then again where do you start since they are already so far outta hand in this class? They should have not allowed the triple disc clutches. If they would have used there heads they may as well let them run berts and brinns. $650.00 for a triple disc new, $200.00 for a throwout bearing, and then the cost of your tranny, etc. Right there you are almost at a bert or brinn. You can rebuild a bert or brinn cheaper than a saginaw too.

So really as of right now it is almost like the class is too far out of hand to bring it back to reality. The only thing that can be done now is to tech hard core every week or frequently. Not just carbs or wheelbase. Check compression, pull heads and check valve sizes, pull the inspection plug and look for the light weight cranks, test the fuel being run ( this is something that is being done too ). If hardcore tech is in place then it will help keep the cheating to a minimum atleast.

I really hope to see some changes for the better with this class. It has always been one of my favorites and i would hate to see it vanish but it will in time if things dont change.

J/M/O on the subject. Sorry if some dont like it but everyone is entitled to there own opinion.
 
Well put Tommy. However I think all of the good suggestions and talk is falling on deaf ears. I had somone in the loop of things ask me what are the guys with the bigger engines going to do if they go back to engine limits? I was told that wouldn't be very fair because they said it would make their engines all junk! I told them, so what because, thats exactlly what you made OUR engine when you went to the 400 plus cubic limit.. So what's the difference? There were more of US than them! If they want BIGGER, move up!
It is a techable class. The tracks officials are just going to have to do some tuff love, make rules and stick to them, NO matter who gets their nose bent out of shape. The blantant favortism is GOT to stop. OH, and don't say it doesn't happen, because we all know it does....! That right there is what is helping to ruin this class.
JMO
 
They will not tech. like that then there buddys will fail and be mad at them :) Just kidding it is hard to get the rules to fit everyone. But you are right something needs to be policed like the old days to put a cap on cost. Good luck it happens in all classes and forms of racing I guess
 
smaldirt28 said:
This class is just out of hand for $300.00 to win. Rules need to be inforced. It shouldnt be up to the drivers to police the rules. I am not going to "bash" AARA in this thread but just to simply make some points.

For those that are spending $10,000+ on there motors is just stupid. $300.00 to win and your spending that on just the motor. If you are spending that too more than likely it isn't legal (with aara rules). I went through the catalog and added up everything with the best money can buy for this class and just parts is around $4500.00. That is with all LEGAL parts and the best Legal parts you can buy. Now if thats how much you got in parts and the $5500+ is labor then you are getting bent over. I know you want a good engine builder that is known for good pieces but come on paying that much in labor would be outragous. About 5 years ago i ran a $2500.00 motor at pevely and was competitive on a weekly basis and won a feature too. Now a days you gotta have more than that but not a $10,000+ motor that is "legal".

As someone else stated the guys cheating or spending $20,000 on there whole operation is going to be what kills this class. Where do you draw the line as far as rules go? Some people will cheat no matter what so rules dont matter to some people. I will not take the driving ability away from some people but it isnt all about that too. A GOOD set of rules needs to be in place. But then again where do you start since they are already so far outta hand in this class? They should have not allowed the triple disc clutches. If they would have used there heads they may as well let them run berts and brinns. $650.00 for a triple disc new, $200.00 for a throwout bearing, and then the cost of your tranny, etc. Right there you are almost at a bert or brinn. You can rebuild a bert or brinn cheaper than a saginaw too.

So really as of right now it is almost like the class is too far out of hand to bring it back to reality. The only thing that can be done now is to tech hard core every week or frequently. Not just carbs or wheelbase. Check compression, pull heads and check valve sizes, pull the inspection plug and look for the light weight cranks, test the fuel being run ( this is something that is being done too ). If hardcore tech is in place then it will help keep the cheating to a minimum atleast.

I really hope to see some changes for the better with this class. It has always been one of my favorites and i would hate to see it vanish but it will in time if things dont change.

J/M/O on the subject. Sorry if some dont like it but everyone is entitled to there own opinion.
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Great points!! Ever priced a countershaft for a saginaw?? My god...expensive!! When they started letting people run 406's ect.....thats when it all blew up. 383's were bad.......but a good 406 was unbeatable. Horses plus cubic inches make alot of difference. Heck......my sportsman motor i had $2000 in it. 350 010 block......steel crank with x rods. 10to1 pistons bought at an auction. Dart heads bought off my dad. Lasted 4 years. Was it a front runner??Nope. Was it a good motor. Yep. but that 75 to 100 i won every night with it.....sometimes more..........in the long run made me out better off than the guys running the more expensive stuff and blowing them up mid season or so. Plus....they needed to be torn down every year and freshened. Mine.......4 years no freshening up. Crazy. Its an awesome class.........but the motor deal needs a more level playing ground and not just a track to track thing. In this day and age with the economy the way it is.........you would think someone would have done more to corral the motor deals.......not in this class alone.........every class.
 
ExtremeRaceCars said:
The motor cost is not what is going to kill this class. If that were true it would be dead already in Indiana.
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This isnt Indiana and i would think you of all people would be pushing to make this class with the economy the way it is more affordable but yet keep it fast and fair for all,, motor cost may not be the total problem but it is part of it...just seems to me you have been defending the guys with the bucks,, not meaning to bash you and i totally praise you for your series but if the sportsman class fails what good is it for everything you have done ?
 
Brian, we don't have much more than that in our current engine, so as far as weekly rules go, I think they're okay.. If they enforced.

I really hope we go to the A or H rule next year though!
 
mudface said:
This isnt Indiana and i would think you of all people would be pushing to make this class with the economy the way it is more affordable but yet keep it fast and fair for all,, motor cost may not be the total problem but it is part of it...just seems to me you have been defending the guys with the bucks,, not meaning to bash you and i totally praise you for your series but if the sportsman class fails what good is it for everything you have done ?
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It's not that I'm defending the guys with the big bucks... I'm being a realist. #1 Not every track has the resourses and or personel to tech like AARA does, therefore it is not feasible to have the same rules. What if UMP decides to make rules for the sportsman class... Do you think they will go with AARA syle motor rules or Highland style? There is no way they go with restricted motor rules. Personally I think this has all been blown out of proportion. There is not that big of a difference between a top notch AARA and an open motor... cost wise or on track performance. I have witnessed it on to many occasions. There is no way to stop people from spending money... if they want to win bad enough they will do whatever it takes, it has always been that way doesn't matter what class it is. Is it smart to spend 10k on a sportsman motor to win $300...Is it smart to spend 15k on a mod motor to win $500... Is it smart to spend 40k on a slm motor to win $1200? As far as lowering costs there are many ways to do it...But I don't make the rules. If the sportsman class fails so be it... I tried thats more than can be said for a lot of the sportsman drivers. At some point you have to assess the situation and just walk away.
 
I agree with Dean about allied. Be thankful that allied exists. They do tech cars. There are plenty of tracks across the country that don't tech nothing
 
PITDRIFTER said:
Well maybe not, but it may be an alternative for the guys who don't have the major bucks to throw around.

If a crate late model can win a feature against supers, I'd take a chance on it in a sportsman.
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I just wonder if they would go to crates for a sportsman, some of which think the crate engine is the messiah to save racing! Does that mean we could use a FORD crate engine!! If we showed up with one, would we be turned AWAY?? Inquiring minds would like to know! Or would WE Ford fanatics be turned AWAY, too! I think adding weight could level the playing field!
Again...JMO
 
Someday when all the oem frames that are used and or get to hard to find the will have to go to a tube type chassis, super street's and sportsman's have been my favorite since its been in our budget range and hope to see em prosper in the future, crate engines im ok with but im more for and open engine and choke it with the 2 barrel would be the economy choice i think since so many used parts are availible ... keep the 3 link or leaf, allow berts and brinns for reason's and go to the H tire rule and i bet you would see a big change in the race program... these are small changes
 
The sportsman class exists as the name implies,SPORT..We race that class for the "SPORT" not to make a proffit..Some sportsman cars are very close to late models in looks for one thing..The drivability is close to a LM but not near as on the ragged edge as a LM..I personally get way more injoyment driving my SPORTsman than my LM..So what if joe blow spends 10Gs on a motor or Fireball spends under a grand both racers get the same "KICK",enjoyment,fun..Bet if ya all polled the sportsman driver ranks and asked them why do ya drive a sportsman most would agree with my statement above..Now here we have 40+ cars at I-55,not bad for a dieing class...
 
FIREBALL said:
The sportsman class exists as the name implies,SPORT..We race that class for the "SPORT" not to make a proffit..Some sportsman cars are very close to late models in looks for one thing..The drivability is close to a LM but not near as on the ragged edge as a LM..I personally get way more injoyment driving my SPORTsman than my LM..So what if joe blow spends 10Gs on a motor or Fireball spends under a grand both racers get the same "KICK",enjoyment,fun..Bet if ya all polled the sportsman driver ranks and asked them why do ya drive a sportsman most would agree with my statement above..Now here we have 40+ cars at I-55,not bade for a dieing class...
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HighLand had 5 sportsman cars " Incuding yourself " and Mt Vern is closed so 44 sportsman cars at I-55 don't surprise me .
 
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