Before We Begin Again In 08:

I think all the tracks getting together and making a similar set of rules is a great idea ED. I enjoyed the year I traveled more than any other and this would allow people to have choices to run two nights without having to change heads or even motors. Then big races could be held at the end of the year at each track and combine points for an overall MO ministock champion.

I came in 7th in the RAMS and 4th at MCS with a $100 motor my first year. THis year I had less than $1000 in my motor using the cam from last year. THe issues I had were with a bad (new) oil pump and a bad (new) distributor. I whish I would have used my junk parts. My car came in 2nd twice and won a race when I put an expert driver in it. I just don't understand why the need to spend so much money Jim. You can't make money at this it is just for fun and dumping $5000+ into a motor is not justifiable to me. Whoever wants to run all out racing parts should move to a different class but I said that all before and it just makes me a whiner because I don't want to spend all my extra income on my race car.

Why does a Chevy need help to run with the Fords? In other classes do they give the Fords help to run with the Chevy 350's for the same money? Everyone has a choice on what to run, it took me about two hours to realize that in a ministock go with a Ford or Toyota not a Chevy. Yes a Chevy can run with the Fords, Bill and Marty proved that without over spending. Jim got his handling and no one could beat him with the HP he had. If I bought a JVB head for $3000 and worked on my handling I could run with him but that is not what this class is all about.

I always got along with Jim and Joe, Dave and Wolf at the track I just don't think their budgets have a place in the ministock class. I heard Mel say that he helped ruin the sportsman/street stock class in this area. I guess 5 years down the road someone will get to say this about the ministocks.
 
who the hell has a $5000+ motor?????? i sold my truck for waaaaaaaay less than that!! i agree jack, if anybody spends that kind of $$$$ is stupid.
 
the figure i put

the figure i put out of $6250 was for 2 YEARS!!!! not just one year but for the 2005 and the 2006 season. in all honestly i think that is very inexpensive. and like i said, that included refreshening of the motor in the off season with a new head built and rebuilding a new car after wrecking it at farmington.
oh ya, nothing to do with this topic, but i need to know how many people would be interested in running a higher pay out race at a differant track?
 
Are You Kidding?

Butch:

Who would not want to race for bigger payouts?
Get the rules down first.
Get an inspection team (and I mean more than one tech man)
so all of the cars could go through tech.
Please don't get a former competitor to perform this duty!
Find someone who doesn't know any of us and has no interest in who
is who!
This way there can be no collusion or favoritism in the field!

I think all of us would come to this type of event if it did not conflict with the points at which ever track you call home.
This is why we put on the HEIDENHAIN 10K after the points series at MCS was over.
We even looked at a middle of the week event under the lights for just Mini Stock for a big purse!
This way you can have your race and it won't affect the points at the track where you normally race.

I know many people who would come to watch such an event if it were promoted properly.
Some race fans can't come out on the week end due to family commitments and the event last so long they can't get home at a decent hour.
This could work and we all could race a couple of times a week.

SORRY:

JUST BLOGING MY THOUGHTS HERE!:)

Uncle Ed.
 
I think everyone is on the same page with us except for one or two, unfortunately it looks like Mel is the only one keeping us from being a lower budget class that has useful tech inspections.

It looks like we have three choices:
1) give up and watch the cost of running up front keep going up until the class dies
2) Reform the RAMS or something similar then we set our own rules
3) get together as a group (and we would need almost every ministock driver) and send a signed letter to Mel how the ministock drivers feel

They all have drawbacks
1) we spend more and the class is no longer what it was intended to be.
2) we need someone who has allot of time to front this effort and with full time jobs and families most of us are not going to have the time to do this.
3) Mel seems to not care what most think and only listens to very few people if any.
 
I here you!

Look everybody:
I have talked to Mel at length about some of these issues.
He has no intention of running us out or killing the class.
He simply wants to have a Mini Stock class that promotes a good car count.
He is a business man who has big bills to pay.
We will get nowhere taking stabs at him!
I like the approach that Jack mentioned first.
We might take a letter of some sort to Mel about how we feel
on the rules and start some dialog as to what we might like to do.
He is not as unreasonable as you might think, but with all he has to deal with at the track, his family and his own health it seems to be wearing on him and at times he seems short on patients.
If we could "SHOW HIM THE MONEY" so to speak I think we could persuade him to help us out on some of the things we don't like and we may have to swallow some others and just try to make the best of it.
We need to do what ever it takes to keep this alive and breathing.
My thoughts are if all of the tracks had the same rules each promoter would be worried that the car count at his track might suffer at any giving event and that is a bad thing for all of the tracks.
If the class grows some we could settle this by having a good car count at all of the tracks all of the time.
Keeping the cost down is critical to this mission.
Growth will only come if the level of entry is affordable to those who would like to try this with out mortgaging their house to do it.

Face it:

The cost of racing at any level is high, so should we tell everybody that we are the elite and don't try to do this without being prepared to spend your kids inheritance.
That is just not what I signed up for when we got started.
On the other hand:
I do think you should be pointed in the right direction when you decide to dive in.
You need some help getting started and in this class most all of the competitors will help you at anytime.
Lets continue to keep a vigilant eye on the progression of this class so we don't let it get any further out of hand.

Keep the ideas coming:
Many have PMed me asking if they can help.
UNITY or a sanctioning body is what we need.

HEY UMP, ALLIED and IMSA.
CAN YOU HELP US OUT?
YOU HELPED THE HORNETS GET ORGANIZED.
Is anybody listening?

Uncle Ed.
 
Uncle Ed. said:
Butch:

Who would not want to race for bigger payouts?
Get the rules down first.
Get an inspection team (and I mean more than one tech man)
so all of the cars could go through tech.
Please don't get a former competitor to perform this duty!
Find someone who doesn't know any of us and has no interest in who
is who!
This way there can be no collusion or favoritism in the field!

Uncle Ed.
Click to expand...
We tried that at mcs didn't work.....that's how we got where we are right now... also if you don't get a former racer ect they won't know what to check for...

when it was jpr shanon and I all 3 raced (or was part of the team) we did simple check and balance system..
2 out of 3 before a DQ ... did we 3 agree on everything nope we worked together as a team.. we also had a 4th "floater" tech guy in case it was one of our cars involed in a tear down/questionable part..... also we would tech the #8 shannon would walk away so we could do our job
same with jpr and I....

you got to get honest tech's that have the mind set of this
1) saftey first
2) enforce the rules
3) don't care if he makes friends... kinda like wheel21 saying "I didn't come here to make friends"
 
Ed your doing a hell of a job

this post kinda reminds me of a post just not too long ago about the traveling series everyone had talked about. having a tech man, or a team of tech men (or women) is the way to go, but finding someone that is impartial to any team is going to be difficult. you would need to find people that has raced mini stocks or at least know what areas to look for that can be used to gain an unfair advantage. kind of like what i wanted to see happen in 06 with throwing everybody's car number in 1 helmet, draw 3 to 5 numbers out to be teched that night, then in another helmet have differant things to be teched like clutches, cams, carbs, pistons, etc. that way it is the luck of the draw and nobody knows what or who will be teched. then like smurf said, if a tech person has a car that is being teched, they leave the area and let the other 2 tech men do their job. kind of like a checks and balances system.
also, trying to get all the tracks to run the same rules will be rather difficult to do, but it can be done IF you can garuntee them a higher pay out race where the track might draw 15 plus cars or more.
ive said it before, if there is anything i can help with let me know, 1 more thing for me to help with can be added to the 100 other things im doin.....who needs sleep or relaxation :D:p.
 
I agree that Mel has allot on his plate and is not the cause of most of the issues at MCS. He did not cause the big cut in pay for us but did open the rules so he is the one we need to work with to get them in check. He even said about cheaters night "heck the ministocks are open anyway just have flat top pistons".

At the end of last year and this year we had great car counts for a ministock class, this year was a little better but that was thanks to Heidenhain for their big money race. If we had the same thing in 06 the car count would have been just as good if not bettter.

In the end everyone is on the same page here so there should be something we can do as a group.
 
Just some more food for thought!

I love that it is only the 22nd of October and we are still deciding what we might want to do for next year.

This is a must if we are to get the class under control again.
Not that I think it was broken or anything.
We have the budget to do whatever you all decide to do, but
we are the lucky ones.
I know that some of the other racers think that we would like to have the rules opened up so we can spend our budget escalating the competition level.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Even though we do have a great sponsor (who by the way provided all of us a rather large purse for the race at the end of the season) we would like nothing better than to reduce the amount we need to compete for the season.
It is truly the love of the class that we have in mind.
There should be a starting ground for those of us who are not sure if dirt stock car racing is what we want to do with our fun money without breaking the bank to find out.
If all we need is a tech team to fix the problem, then lets take that to Mel and see if we can get that done first.
If he agrees on this concept then we might ask (politely) if we could reel the rules back in just a bit to help keep the cost down.
I can't see where he would disagree if we were all in agreement on this.
I know that many of you would have to spend some cash to down size the engines that you were able to run at MCS last season, but we could find a way to help out with some of that by letting you have the time to get things right over the coarse of the season.
I don't want to cost anybody any more than necessary to accomplish this, but in the long run it will be necessary to bring everyone under the umbrella to truly make it fair and level.
When everyone sees that we are on top of the game when it comes to fair and equal rules they will be more apt to try the class their selves.
That will bring up the car count for all of the local tracks and show the region that this is real fun racing that we have here.
Maybe it will get the attention that it deserves for once.

Keep it coming folks were getting closer!

Uncle Ed.

Team HEIDENHAIN.
 
if we could reel the rules back in just a bit to help keep the cost down.



What part of the rules do you want to change.
 
well i had to put in my 2 cents in!!

Wow i missed alot! my eyes hurt from reading, i skipped some of it because they were to long and i got bored of it. but i think i get the just of it. People have their panties in a bunch over people putting to much money in their mini stock, right? which in my own head i think that people who are doing that is just crazy stupid retarded.

Plus why are people complaining over Jim's truck? (he was soooo last year) Its not like you can go back to the 07 season and make him take it back or anything its in the past and now he even said he is out of the class. Is it something about him just being in a truck because i dont remember that many people complianing over some other people winning....alot.

But anywayz i want to put my own thing out there which is:

If some crazy stupid retarded greedy mofo wants to sink hella money into a mini stock go ahead and look like fool the only thing you have is a trophy saying "i have to sink money into a mini just so i can win instead of being a real racer and moving up" Plus They are the dumbest person i have met! Bcuz we are a beginners class and if you want to sink the money in a racecar MOVE UP DUH! Plus a real racer wants to go FAST right? okay you can sink money into a mini to go fast or you can just get in something faster, what seems like a right choice. Bcuz just cuz your way out infront of everyone (like your lapping them more then once or twice) doesnt mean your putting on a good race, A good race is like the one where you have all the fans on the edge of their seats and watching hard core on the last lap just to see who finshed 1st. That's the people they remember!
Unless you in a higher class and your are just flyin around the track like its nothing and you are doing amazing! and i am not try to throw an name out there but when Tommy Seats comes to our track i love watching him just because you can tell he does have a big motor and can handle it. its just amazing.

As far as rules make them already stick to them and lets not change them every year! and anyone who dont want to follow them someone can up a fire boot up their @$$ and tell them to get out. I might not be car smart very much but i am kinda smart at somethings, but that is common since.
okay i am going to bed i got school in the morning.

Complian at me later!
Much love to everyone!

Ashley
"Lady D" 25
 
I want to seem smarter than I realy am!

WOW!
This is a no brainier!:)

#1-I would like to take out the rule that says I can make the rules whatever I see fit on that day.

The other one I would reel back in would be.

#2-I as the promoter can adjust the rules until the brand I want as the advantage.

i/e the statement "I WANT A CHEVY IN THE WINNERS CIRCLE"
Everyone heard it loud and clear at the meeting.

I am in no way implying that any one person was responsible for this action and I don't know exactly who has what under their hood.
I had enough trouble keeping all of our cars running last year, but it is a fact that if you don't want to tech the cars then everyone will at some time begin to cheat. It's human nature!

Sorry Jim.

You asked!

By the way Dwayne Is an old family friend and the boys out on the left coast know me by my first name.
Acquiring the parts at the right price is not a problem!
The necessity to do so is the problem.

Just stirring the pot!

Thanks:

Uncle Esslin "uh" Ed
 
Good post Ashley basically you are saying what everyone else is. This is a lower budget class and it is crazy to overspend to win a trophy and a few dollars. We all agree that one car running away with the race is not entertaining for the fans. So why let a few people that want to overspend ruin the class for those that want to race on a budget.

This is not about Jim at all, his brother Joe wanted to use an aluminum racing head in our class and the rules now let Jim do that. I don't even know if he used that head this year and if he did it is not an issue because it was legal. I does not even matter how much he paid for the head what it does is take this class out of the entry level racecar. Jim that is not an esslinger head and does not even compare to the head in question. It is a stock head that was worked over and I bet the auction ends for much more than that because I tried to buy one last year for 400 max and never won an auction.

The rules were frozen for three years, and then some people voted to disband the RAMS so they could have them changed again. I agree with not changing them all the time but these are not the rules to stick with. If something is more and helps make an engine last longer than it is a smart to have that rule more open. If it is a performance adder then I think the rules need to stay in check.
 
Uncle Ed. said:
WOW!
This is a no brainier!:)

#1-I would like to take out the rule that says I can make the rules whatever I see fit on that day.

I Dont see that rule in there!! The only thing close to that is the extra weight thing and that was there so if you thought you would spend a fortune on your car and win every race you would get weight on you to slow you down. But it never had to be done because we had close racing all year.


The other one I would reel back in would be.

#2-I as the promoter can adjust the rules until the brand I want as the advantage.

i/e the statement "I WANT A CHEVY IN THE WINNERS CIRCLE"
Everyone heard it loud and clear at the meeting.

So what you are saying is that the rules are adjusted to make a chevy win. I dont see that either. I wanted to give chevy something and not ford to make it more equal. But the ford guys didnt think that was fare.



I am in no way implying that any one person was responsible for this action and I don't know exactly who has what under their hood.
I had enough trouble keeping all of our cars running last year, but it is a fact that if you don't want to tech the cars then everyone will at some time begin to cheat. It's human nature!

There was teching this year just not every sat night, Look at the big race they teched and found someone illegal



Sorry Jim.

You asked!

By the way Dwayne Is an old family friend and the boys out on the left coast know me by my first name.
Acquiring the parts at the right price is not a problem!
The necessity to do so is the problem.

What you think you need to spend more money to win some races?



Just stirring the pot!

Thanks:

Uncle Esslin "uh" Ed
Click to expand...

and jack i know thats not the head in question just wanted people to see where they can get some good deals
 
Is It My Turn Again?

OK.
I hear you Jim:

So did everyone else at the rules meeting last year.

But I can tell you why we did not start at the beginning of the year and It was something we received from Mel that brought us back out.
The Tire Rule.
We were running illegal wheels and tires if you were going strictly by the rules so we did not come out at the beginning of the season because we could not afford to change all of the cars over to legal tires and wheels.
MEL BENT THE RULES:

These were his words to me:

I own this place and I can make the rules what ever I want.

Needless to say I thanked him for allowing us to come back out to compete, but at the same time I am left thinking what else is he overlooking in the class.

I stated it loud and clear before.

I like Mel and the track.
I think he has the right to do what ever he wishes when ever he wants.
I can't be more clear than that!

But when you make concessions for the sake of car count everyone will be left asking the same question that I asked.
Who and what else is he overlooking.

We never got teched, but we did not make all of the races this year.
We could have brought anything we wanted for power to the track and no one would have asked us any questions although we did pi-- some people off on the tire issue. For that I am sorry if we offended anyone.
I don't think we were enough of a threat to anyone and that helped us stay under the radar.
As for some of the rest of the statements made at the meeting I believe the statement was made that we are not going to spend all the time it takes to tear down a car for tech.
I am old and getting a bit slow in my golden years but I think I heard that come from the podium during that meeting.
I will ask Mike Nullenski to see if he can refresh my memory.

All said and done I know the real deal and I don't wish to air out that laundry on this forum and none of us should.

We
(and I mean a majority of the competitors Chevy, Ford and the imports) wish to bring the cost level down just a bit and I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
I just don't know why you choose to stand almost if not souley alone on this issue.
I have stated my allegiance to the bow tie bunch many times and I have justified my running Fords in this class.
I have also stated I would like to have the rules changed to allow parts and pieces that add durability to the engines so we don't have as many blown engines because that adds cost to our class.
You wont find me at the end of the line when it comes to giving the other brands the parts and pieces they need to compete, but if there is no way to get these parts to the same level as the rest of the competitors without going way over and above then that is where we have to draw the line.
For years the Ford guys have had little to cheer about in short track racing until recently. Unless you had more money than brains or you just could not swallow the idea of running a Chevy ( and some just can't) that was the power plant of choice.
But we don't run small block V8's in Mini Stock.
If you could most of them would be Chevy's and it would just be another Chevy show all over again.
That plays again to the cost thing.
It would be cheaper to run a small block Chevy then run a small block Ford!
My intention here is not to offend anyone.
I have been happy with the Fords we built and I am proud of their performance each and every time we go out.
No engine failures in almost 2 seasons of rookies racing the cars and me struggling to keep them in tune.
On the other hand, I know the short comings of the 2.5 Chevy and I know if they are to compete with us they will need some help.
I will stand right here an scream it from the mountain top if that will get the point across any better.

But we must do this under the watchful eyes of a competent tech official so it doesn't get out of hand.
If you sink all of your play money into your car of choice, you can bet that your pride will not let you admit you might have made a mistake on your selection of brands.
Instead you will coil up and strike at anyone who is calling you on the carpet for your decision.
And in the dead of night when you are all alone you will begin to find ways by whatever means necessary to get back at those who would dare to call you out.
It's that human nature thing again!
Don't think all of my friends haven't given me loads of trouble over my decision to run Fords, but they are still my friends and so are you.:)
No matter what you or anyone else had under the hoods of their cars you still have to drive them and you my friend have come along way since I first saw you.
Regardless of the package you learned allot in just a short time.
You will make one hell of a b-mod driver.
So good luck and we will be watching...

All that said:

Who cares:

I have not won a feature race in 2 years with 3 cars in the fight at MCS.

Who am I to say anything....

It's just fun stirring the pot: Right? lol

Have a good night.;)

Uncle Ed.

Team HEIDENHAIN
 
I just don't know why you choose to stand almost if not souley alone on this issue

I will say im alone on this when I hear from more than 4 or 5 people from our track. Ed everyone heard me and no one liked it why?
 
Why?

Jim I am afraid I don't understand what you mean by "heard me".
Do you mean the sound of your truck?
Or do you mean something that you said at the track?

I have been up for about 30 hours and I am just about to collapse into bed.
So If you can clarify this for me I might be able to assemble some sort of witty answer for you but not until tomorrow..

I am not jabbing you on this, I really want to know what you mean!
PM me if you don't want to discuss it out loud.

See ya:

Uncle "E"
 
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