Kaboooooooooooooom

I am not trying to bring anything down, there are pros and cons to everything, and some of you are trying to make this fastrack thing out to have no downsides. Racers need honest information with both positive and negitive points about the class to decide whats best for them, and I feel that entry fees for that weak of a payout is just plain wrong.

I never stated that I was runing that series, I stated that I was being told to run the series by my Dad, and he is a major part of my racing.
 
Dean said:
How for towards the price of a great engine will a $65 per race nite entry fee go if you race 52 nites a year for the same pay to win and alot less from seccond back? Think about the hidden cost of the trojen horse/white elephant they are trying to sell you.

Was Memmer ever on here trying to sell UMP to you? Hell no, it sold itself.
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Dean, We only run 15 points nights a year that have an entry fee. For The non points nights there is no entry fee.

Fastrak Midwest

Kevin Ferguson
618-889-7643
kevin@mychoice.net
 
(quote) Motsinger Masonry has decided that Motsinger Motorsports will be racing with the Fastrack series in 05. I have not singed off on the idea yet, however, I am still trying to get an engine to race two nights a week close to home. (quote)

The first sentence says "will be racing with", so yes you did.

Just trying to clear things up as to whether bashing this series constitutes a new method of sponsorship query. EXAMPLE Sponsor me because I don't want to race with this other series and speak out against them whenever possible.
 
I am just giving both sides of the information so people can make an informed decision, I have nothing against the fastrack people or their class.

Milsey, when you figure in the lower pay outs, increased travel, and entry fees, it just does not add up for me to run that type of a series. It is also worth something to get to race enough nites to justify the expense of the race car, and choosing the best tracks in your area must be worth something as well. How about choosing a track where you are pretty sure that you will get treated fairly every saturday nite, and where you like most of the people that are there, is that worth something in the equation?

Reducing the cost of racing is a very noble conquest, I am just not conviced that this attempt is a worthy one. It may be the awnser for some racers, and would be a good class for people located near the tracks they will race at alot, or a racer who does not want to race real often, and likes to travel alot. The Fastrack people lost my confidence when they asked for a entry fee for a twelve hundred to win race, that is just wrong in my book.

Just because someone tells me I am going to do something does not mean that is what I will do.
 
Dean, let's be realistic about things here also. How many races have you actually raced your late model in during the past two or three years? It hasn't been that many and it's stricktly because of $$$$$$. So I don't understand why you would even think about not being in favor of a much more affordable, yet just as exciting, form of late model racing. At least give it a try before dismissing it.
 
I think you are missing the point a little Millsey. Once the money is spent on joining fastrak, buying into a 15 (or less) series of races, buying the motor and investing the time into installing it, Dean will have spent a considerable amount of money and time on the deal.

Then, as he rightly points out, he will have additional expenses travelling to the fastrak shows, and if he wants to also run the "big shows" in the series, he will have to be willing to take time off work (read lose money in wages, thus costing him money to go racing) plus pay for all of the additional travel expenses, etc, to race for 5 grand or whatever.

The other option is find the money for a solid UMP motor, maybe not equal to what the big boys have, but something that will get the job done, and stay local and be able to race every weekend for a grand, without shelling out a fortune in cash to travel. And go to a track where you really enjoy being there, among a group of people that you like hanging out with every week for a night's racing. Not just in your own class, but across the board in all of the different classes.

So, what I think Dean is getting at is that it is not as cut and dried as the motor is cheaper, therefore it is the best way to go. There are many things to be considered, and to each his own. And I think Dean is definitely aware of the fact that his racing program over the last couple years has been severely limited by lack of funds, so he wants to be sure that if he does do the fastrak thing, it will allow him to race often, something that may not be guaranteed when travel starts to eat up money that might otherwise be spent on motor to race locally.

I don't mean to speak for you, Dean, but this is my take on what you're saying.
 
On the contrary, I personally think this sort of series is exactly what racers in the same boat as Dean need. I understand exactly what Dean is saying. I also know Dean pretty well and I know what a competitor he is. I would love to see him be on a level playing field with other racers in his class and not just based on the amount of money some guy pours into his car. You know that's the truth and I know that's the truth. I'm not saying some of the guys with lesser budgets cannot stay up with the big budget guys, but if you take the big picture in mind that is the rule and not the exception.
 
Big budget guys started with little budgets, bye and large. Basically, I am getting the impression that you are not getting the idea here at all, and I am not meaning to simply argue for the sake of arguing. Money is going to be spent, one way or another. Fastrack is not cheap, regardless of the fact that the motor is 1/6 the cost of a good open UMP motor. Traveling to the Fastrack shows will eat up a huge wad of cash, and that just seems to be totally ignored by Fastrack proponents. Maintenance on your motor will be the same, regardless of how much it cost to purchase. When Dean is not racing a Fastrack race, what is he supposed to do with the car? Let it sit and gather dust, like it has been the last couple years, or go race somwhere?

Let's say he wants to race, as much as possible, Fastrack series event or not. Well, at I-55, I doubt very much you will finish in the top ten with a crate motor against the big boys who race there, so forget pulling any money back at the local track. Fastrack will probably only run at the most 15 races, if they're lucky this first year, so you are buying a motor to run less than a third of a season (assuming Dean wants to run 2 nights a week for 5 months, with some special weeknight shows thrown in), and putting yourself at a huge disadvantage for the other 2/3 of the races you might run.

I absolutely agree that money wins races. Another big reason not to buy into a crate deal, if you want to really use your car for a full season, cause the only events you are guaranteed a shot at being up front (and even that's debatable, because I don't believe the hype about 'level playing field' and have previously demonstrated how money can even buy you an advantage in the available crate motors) are the Fastrack shows, and that's only 15 events a year. So spend 5 grand on a crate motor, lock yourself into that deal, and you are in fact cutting your options down locally, and pushing your travel budget way up, for pretty much the same payout as a local UMP event.

And this is still sounding like the best deal available for someone in his situation? I don't think so. I think he has a very good understanding of his own situation, and Fastrack is not the best option out there for him right now. It is for a lot of other guys, but it's not for him.

And one last thing. Once you dump all your that money into the Fastrack motor, it's gone. There probably won't be a huge market for second hand crate parts and pieces for quite a while. Something else to consider, zero resale value. Not that used race parts fetch big money anyway, but selling a complete UMP LM will probably get you more cash back around here than just selling a roller and being stuck with a used crate motor.
 
todd.. i usually don't stick my face into posts that don't concern me, but your money figures don't add up. there is just no way travel expenses are gonna add up to the difference between the cost of a fastrack and a competitve, upper level ump motor. we have to compare apples to apples here. all crate motors are (theoretically) the same and all top level. i know there are 2 choices on crate motors, i am talking about the best ones. compare them to the best ump motors, to be fair and accurate. travel expenses are a big one, true, but no way will they come close to the cost difference between motors. thanks,art.
 
Something else you're not considering and probably not even aware of, next year (and possibly this year even) there will be some FULL TIME tracks for Fastrack late models. I'm not at liberty to tell which tracks, but this is not a passing fad. People might as well get use to the idea this kind of racing is here to stay.
 
I did say that the motor was 1/6 the cost of an open UMP motor, so yes, there is no comparison in motor cost. But again, the cost of the motor is only one piece of the bigger puzzle, not the entire puzzle. That is what I am saying. Personally, I think that if you bought a Fastrack motor, ran whatever events they scheduled, and that was it. you are wasting a huge amount of money owning an LM at all, if you are a serious racer. Find the money for a UMP motor, run two nights a week, take a couple weeks off work and run as many summer nationals events as you can, use your car and your equipment as much as you can.

I don't have a race car so I can drag it all over the country on a trailer, I have it so that I can race it. As often as possible.
 
Millsey said:
Something else you're not considering and probably not even aware of, next year (and possibly this year even) there will be some FULL TIME tracks for Fastrack late models. I'm not at liberty to tell which tracks, but this is not a passing fad. People might as well get use to the idea this kind of racing is here to stay.
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Yes, and when that happens Millsey, the package becomes more attractive, now, doesn't it? But that's all just speculation, it may be next year, it may be five years, it may be next year and only last one season because you don't get enough cars to pay the purse, it may be in three years UMP is all but gone because everyone jumped on the bandwagon and rode it out of town. There is always the option to buy into it at any time. But once you have bought the motor and the tires and paid your money to fastrack, you can pretty well kiss your butt goodbye at most of the UMP shows, and get ready to put a lot of gas in the truck and spend a lot of time watching stripes flash under the hood, stock up on road munchies, and get used to long weekends to get your laps in. It really depends on the individual, do you want to race, or do you want to have fun on roadtrips with your buddies at different tracks across the midwest?

It always seems to come back to the same thing. If you are a proponent of the series, it can do no wrong, there is no possible way it is anything but the greatest thing on earth and why can't the rest of us just jump on the bandwagon and sing the glorious praises of Fastrack? Try to put out a balanced view, see the merits and the downside, and be told "you aren't looking at the big picture."
 
t.nie said:
Maintenance on your motor will be the same, regardless of how much it cost to purchase. When Dean is not racing a Fastrack race, what is he supposed to do with the car? Let it sit and gather dust, like it has been the last couple years, or go race somwhere?
Something else to consider, zero resale value. Not that used race parts fetch big money anyway, but selling a complete UMP LM will probably get you more cash back around here than just selling a roller and being stuck with a used crate motor.
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Maintenence on the motor will be the same for a $3000 Crate motor as it is on a $20,000-$30,000 motor? How is that? :confused:

Zero resale value? Where did you get that info from? It dont take a genius to figure out selling a complete UMP Late Model will get you more money than a used roller either. :confused: You apperently hav'nt read up on the whole Fastrak deal have you?
 
I don't see it as a fact yet, we are almost in the middle of Feb., and know track within a 75 mile radius of St. Louis has a Fastrack race on their schedule. It is time to either Sh-- or get off the pot.
 
You buy a UMP open motor for 30 G's. Run it a season. Freshen it, sell it for 20 g's. You buy the five grand crate motor. Run it a season. Freshen it for 1500, and sell it for what? To whom? I won't buy a second hand crate that has been freshened, simply because I can buy a new one for 5 grand. That's just my way of thinking. Buy new, it is worth the extra dollars to know that the engine has been maintained properly, and no one esle has abused it. Now, if it comes to saving ten grand, then thats a different story. I will buy used to save money like that.
 
t.nie said:
It always seems to come back to the same thing. If you are a proponent of the series, it can do no wrong, there is no possible way it is anything but the greatest thing on earth and why can't the rest of us just jump on the bandwagon and sing the glorious praises of Fastrack? Try to put out a balanced view, see the merits and the downside, and be told "you aren't looking at the big picture."
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Sean, it is one thing to read the promotional pieces all over, and another to think it through for yourself. You believe in Fastrack, and thats great. I just think there is a lot more to going racing than "cheap motor is good."
 
t.nie said:
Find the money for a UMP motor, run two nights a week, take a couple weeks off work and run as many summer nationals events as you can, use your car and your equipment as much as you can.

I don't have a race car so I can drag it all over the country on a trailer, I have it so that I can race it. As often as possible.
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Yes that will save you a ton of money right there!! :confused: Run a UMP Late Model a couple nights a week & then go run as many Summer Nationals race as possible! No travel or expense in that plan! :confused:
Fastrak will run 15 points races as well as some non points races. Fact!!!
 
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