Kaboooooooooooooom

[sean2]

You buy a UMP open motor for 30 G's. Run it a season. Freshen it, sell it for 20 g's. You buy the five grand crate motor. Run it a season. Freshen it for 1500, and sell it for what? To whom? I won't buy a second hand crate that has been freshened, simply because I can buy a new one for 5 grand. That's just my way of thinking. Buy new, it is worth the extra dollars to know that the engine has been maintained properly, and no one esle has abused it. Now, if it comes to saving ten grand, then thats a different story. I will buy used to save money like that.

Yes Todd, buy an open UMP motor for $30,000, run it a season (how much will that cost?), freshen it( how much will that cost?) and sell it for $20,000, you just saved a ton of money right there!!!!

GM offers a 602 for $3000 run it for 40-60 nights, trade it in & get a new one for $1500! That simple!

 

[sean2]

FOR THE RECORD: I am a supporter of UMP Late Model racing, nothing better than seeing the "Big Boys" going at it!! That being said I also think UMP is pricing themselves out of the weekly racing scene. How can $30,000 motors race for $1000 week in & week out? They can't and you can tell by the drop in car counts. Im not saying that Fastrak is here to save the world but I do think they can help the weekly racer.

 

[sean2]

Sean, it is one thing to read the promotional pieces all over, and another to think it through for yourself. You believe in Fastrack, and thats great. I just think there is a lot more to going racing than "cheap motor is good."

Todd, do you think I have not thought this through? I have been following this Fastrak deal for over a year now, I think I have most the facts.

 

[t.nie]

I think you have been sold on the idea, for sure.

 

[dirtgirl]

Something else you're not considering and probably not even aware of, next year (and possibly this year even) there will be some FULL TIME tracks for Fastrack late models. I'm not at liberty to tell which tracks, but this is not a passing fad. People might as well get use to the idea this kind of racing is here to stay.

Come on Millsey spill the beans. Is it MCS ???? One of the 3rd world tracks? I think it's time to let the drivers know so they can get their groceries together. LOL!!!! It's getting close to opening day. I know I can't wait !

 

[Brandon Paul]

(quote) Motsinger Masonry has decided that Motsinger Motorsports will be racing with the Fastrack series in 05. I have not singed off on the idea yet, however, I am still trying to get an engine to race two nights a week close to home. (quote)

The first sentence says "will be racing with", so yes you did.

Am I the only one who's wondering what's up with the obsession about where Dean will run in '05? Isn't it the Motsingers' perogative to run the #44 wherever the h-ll they choose?

 

[Brandon Paul]

Come on Millsey spill the beans. Is it MCS ???? One of the 3rd world tracks?

"Third world tracks"? Which would those be?

 

[Millsey]

LOL Brandon.... I agree.... (and I bet you're thinking, "To what!")

I don't want you people to think I'm against UMP either because I'm not. There's just a ton of room out there for this class of late models and they deserve a chance to grow just like everyone else. I've not seen them yet, but from what Trashdog and others have told me they put on a fantastic show.

 

[dirtgirl]

Oh Millsey I was not implying you have any thing against UMP... I was just guessing after reading a couple of post that you have some information of some other tracks going to try to run the Fastrack series. And my guesses were MCS or one of the tracks down South... You are usually informed before the rest of us are. And I am not knocking this sereies. I like all the classes from the 4 cylinders to the Late models. Just wondering when you can share your insight !!!!! I am for the prices to be cheaper for the racers by all means ..... And for Good Racing also no matter what class it is !!!!!

 

[FERGY69]

Sean,

Call Scott Ferguson @ 618-983-5501

 

[Dean]

There are alot of UMP latemodel features won with engines that cost alot less than $30,000 that is a upper end amount. You do not need to have the most expesive engine to have a very good engine, and in racing too often more expensive is automatically equated with better.

Todd, on this one, you are pretty much speaking for me, I am not offended.

The obsession with where I am going to race, well, I like the attention.

I really did not want this thread about Trashdog's awsome picture to turn into a debate centered on my financial ability to race the class that I want to, but so be it. I will be the proverbial racer with Don Oneal dreams, and a real job, just trying to get to a point that I can have a nice home and race all season in the class I love to race.

When someone wants $500 to join, and $65 a race to enter they are lining thier own pockets, not taking care of the racer. It was stated by some of the crate people that UMP gets things from Hoosier, do you expect us to believe that you are not getting something from goodyear, don't be hypocryts.

You can freshen a real UMP latemodel engine for $2,000-$6,0000 depending on how many times it has been freshend, who you are dealing with, and how you choose your package.

 

[FERGY69]

Fastrak Midwest

For the $500 to join our drivers recieve 4 brand new tires and a Goodyear discount card good for 50% off of passnger, trailer and hauler tire.
We only have an entry fee for the 15 points races
For the $ 65 entry fee our drivers recieve:
1) First place 4 ft trophy and a 4ft by 2ft check.
2) Second place 3ft trophy.
3) Third place 2ft trophy.
4) Two tech officials at every points race.
5) All cars teched before the race.
6) Top three cars and one random car teched after the race.
7) Random engine tear downs through out the season.
8) One race official overseeing scoring.
9) One race official in the pits.
10) A rules advisory board made up of drivers elected by drivers.
11) A $10,000 regional points fund.
12) To participate in our "tennis ball throw" to the fans.
13) A loaner engine if one of our points drivers does have an engine problem.
14) All of our regional races are within 150 miles of St.Louis

We, as a series, do not make money off of the Drivers, fans, or promoters. We sell advertising to our local business who sponsor the races. If we do not sell any advertising we lose money.

We are not trying to replace the Super Late Models, Do the math, fewer and fewer of our local tracks are running Super late models, The tracks cannot justify the weekly payout when they are only getting 12 to 15 cars. The tracks can not operate if we do not do somthing.We are trying to get more cars to the tracks which brings more fans to the tracks.

The only way to get more cars to the tracks is to lower the cost of racing, not raise it. Local racing is a hobby not a profession. Affordable engines and tires is one way to help bring more cars into late model racing. We can not continue to let motor cost keep our lower division cars from ever having the opportunity to move up to late models. A lot of our veteran late model drivers have quit racing because they can not afford the open engines required to run a super late model. We give every driver an opportunity to drive a late model without breaking the bank.

A driver can buy an engine for as little as $3000 and trade it in every year for a new one for $1500 or have it freshened up. There is a market for used crate engines if a person wants to outright sell his motor. A lot of new drivers will buy a used crate engine if that is all they can afford. The reality is that not every one can afford even $6,000 engine so they just don't race.

We need to keep bringing new drivers into dirt racing and moving our lower division cars up to late models. We hope our drivers get exposier and seat time and attract sponers so that one day they can run super late models and become the next Don O'Neil.

Goodyear sells racing tires as part of their advertising campaign to sell passenger tires. Their late model tires sell for $120 ea. They could charge the same as Hoosier and American Racers who sell racing tires to make a profit. Have you seen the "Hoosier" blimp fly over lately?

The reason we are doing the regional touring series first this year is to let the promoters see that they can afford to run a weekly late model class that puts on a good show for the fans and to show the drivers and fans that we are serious on teching these cars. It has to remain fair for all the drivers in order to work. As the area tracks see that this class of cars work we hope that they will pick them up as a weekly class. If we get more weekly cars and fans to the tracks the promoters will be able to afford to bring in some big Super Late Model Shows.

As always we invite anyone to sit down and talk with us, bring your calculator and we will do the math together. We have to bring the cost of racing down so that our area tracks are worth more as a race track rather than a shoping mall.

We would love nothing more than to see our Fastrak cars replace the Steelblock/Sportsman cars and be the feeders for the super late models. If we all work together we can help weekly racing grow. The track owners have to make a profit or they will not continue racing, the drivers have to afford to race all season or they will not continue racing. The fans have to be able to afford to get in the stands or they will not continue racing. The area business have to get "bang" for their advertising dollar or they are going to take their dollars to another venue.

Scott Ferguson
Fastrak Midwest Region
Offfice 618-993-1122
Home 618-983-5501
ferguson@mychoice.net

 

[x factor]

Am I the only one who's wondering what's up with the obsession about where Dean will run in '05? Isn't it the Motsingers' perogative to run the #44 wherever the h-ll they choose?

No obsession. Just wondering why someone would bad mouth a series, then say they were going to run the series, then say they didn't say they were going to run the series. Dubble talk does get much respect from me.

If people want to find out about a series they can reseach it themselves as well as hearing all the speculation from people that haven't.

 

[dirt hound]

There are alot of UMP latemodel features won with engines that cost alot less than $30,000 that is a upper end amount. You do not need to have the most expesive engine to have a very good engine, and in racing too often more expensive is automatically equated with better.

Todd, on this one, you are pretty much speaking for me, I am not offended.

The obsession with where I am going to race, well, I like the attention.

I really did not want this thread about Trashdog's awsome picture to turn into a debate centered on my financial ability to race the class that I want to, but so be it. I will be the proverbial racer with Don Oneal dreams, and a real job, just trying to get to a point that I can have a nice home and race all season in the class I love to race.

When someone wants $500 to join, and $65 a race to enter they are lining thier own pockets, not taking care of the racer. It was stated by some of the crate people that UMP gets things from Hoosier, do you expect us to believe that you are not getting something from goodyear, don't be hypocryts.

You can freshen a real UMP latemodel engine for $2,000-$6,0000 depending on how many times it has been freshend, who you are dealing with, and how you choose your package.

case in point terry english win at east bay with a steel block

 

[cngracin]

Todd you missed somethin'

You buy a UMP open motor for 30 G's. Run it a season. Freshen it, sell it for 20 g's. You buy the five grand crate motor. Run it a season. Freshen it for 1500, and sell it for what? To whom? I won't buy a second hand crate that has been freshened, simply because I can buy a new one for 5 grand. That's just my way of thinking. Buy new, it is worth the extra dollars to know that the engine has been maintained properly, and no one esle has abused it. Now, if it comes to saving ten grand, then thats a different story. I will buy used to save money like that.

Hey Todd, I really think you missed a big thing as far as the used market for a “GM crate engine.”

“Whom could it be sold to” you ask. Well… You could sell it to someone wanting to get into Fastrak. True that’s a slim market at the moment but I truly hope in just a couple years that changes. So, with not much demand from that market to start with; what else could be done with your freshened up “GM crate engine:”

1) Sell it to a racer needing a Small Block Chevy for his tow rig.
2) Put it in YOUR OWN tow rig. (‘Cause YES it’ll be racking up some miles.)
3) Sell it to a Street Stock/Sportsman racer.
3) Sell it to B-Mod racer.
4) Sell it one of the folks at the track for the tow/push truck.
5) Sell it to someone needing an engine for his or her daily driver GM pick-up.
6) Sell it to someone needing an engine for his or her daily driver GM V-8 equipped car.
7) Sell it to the farmer out side of town for his farm truck.
8) Sell it to someone building their very own “*****in’ Camero.”
9) Sell it to someone that trying to throw a V8 in a S-10.
10) Sell it to ANYONE with a need for a Small Block Chevy!

 

[FERGY69]

There are numerous tracks that run these engines on a weekly basis. Check it for yourself, do a search on yahoo or google and type in the part no. 88958602 and 88958604 that is the GM part no. for the 602 and 604.

 

[racer20]

There are alot of UMP latemodel features won with engines that cost alot less than $30,000 that is a upper end amount. You do not need to have the most expesive engine to have a very good engine, and in racing too often more expensive is automatically equated with better.

Todd, on this one, you are pretty much speaking for me, I am not offended.

The obsession with where I am going to race, well, I like the attention.

I really did not want this thread about Trashdog's awsome picture to turn into a debate centered on my financial ability to race the class that I want to, but so be it. I will be the proverbial racer with Don Oneal dreams, and a real job, just trying to get to a point that I can have a nice home and race all season in the class I love to race.

When someone wants $500 to join, and $65 a race to enter they are lining thier own pockets, not taking care of the racer. It was stated by some of the crate people that UMP gets things from Hoosier, do you expect us to believe that you are not getting something from goodyear, don't be hypocryts.

You can freshen a real UMP latemodel engine for $2,000-$6,0000 depending on how many times it has been freshend, who you are dealing with, and how you choose your package.

$500 Memberhship fee
We sure do charge that.
You get your first set of tires free ($480.00) Net result of $20.00 Membership fee.


$65.00 entry fee. There is never a time that the "to start" money does not equate into a profit from the entry fee per race.
$65.00 entry fee, $100 Guaranteed to start equates into a $35.00 profit.


As the purse goes up the percentage of profit from the entry fees goes up as well.
$1200 to win $65.00 entry fee $100 Guaranteed to start
$5000 to win $95.00 entry fee $250 Guaranteed to start.

This is a business and like anything else it is designed to make a profit. it can't survive without making a profit. Pay the Officials every night and travleing expenses and there isn't much left.

Tires.
Yes we make a profit and build Points Funds from that profit along with Membership fees.
You can't tie money up in inventory and not make a profit.

Regional Points fund for Mid West $10,000.00
$50,000.00 Contingency Fund

National Points Fund $70,000.00
$100,000 Contingency Fund

Stan Lester
CEO-Founder

 

[t.nie]

Hey Todd, I really think you missed a big thing as far as the used market for a “GM crate engine.”

“Whom could it be sold to” you ask. Well… You could sell it to someone wanting to get into Fastrak. True that’s a slim market at the moment but I truly hope in just a couple years that changes. So, with not much demand from that market to start with; what else could be done with your freshened up “GM crate engine:”

Ok, well, let's take a closer look at your list...

1) Sell it to a racer needing a Small Block Chevy for his tow rig.

Pretty doggone expensive way to get an SBC for a tow rig, doncha think? Buy a junkyard motor for $150 and freshen it. That will cost you all of $500.

2) Put it in YOUR OWN tow rig. (‘Cause YES it’ll be racking up some miles.).

See the above statement. I would not be throwing 5 grand into a motor just for it to end up in my tow rig. But, still, what am I going to do with it? Oh, wait, here are some more options...

3) Sell it to a Street Stock/Sportsman racer..

I guess this might be an option, for the sportsman racer on a budget, but then again, if you shell out a couple grand for a second hand crate motor, you could probably afford a brand spanking new one for 3 grand too. I'll take a new motor for 3 g's over a crapped out rebuilt motor for two, now wouldn't you?

3) Sell it to B-Mod racer..

The way things are going, the B mods are fast disappearing, apparently that is part of the reason why we so desperately need fastrak to rescue the local racing scene...

4) Sell it one of the folks at the track for the tow/push truck. .

Sure. I can see the promoters around here just lining up to buy a 2 grand second hand race motor for a track truck. See reply to option 1.

5) Sell it to someone needing an engine for his or her daily driver GM pick-up. .

What, with the price of gas, someone is going to stick a crate race motor in their daily driver? Now, an option might be to unload it on some stupid high school kid with a fresh license who wants to go drag racing over at Gateway on Sat nights with his buddies, but that's about it.

6) Sell it to someone needing an engine for his or her daily driver GM V-8 equipped car..

We covered this one three times now.

7) Sell it to the farmer out side of town for his farm truck..

Now, around where I grew up, there are some farmers who just might go for that one. But for the tractor, the pulling tractor...

8) Sell it to someone building their very own “*****in’ Camero.”.

Now why would anyone bother building a Camero when they could build a kick butt MUSTANG instead?

9) Sell it to someone that trying to throw a V8 in a S-10..

See "why build an S-10 when you could build something else?"

10) Sell it to ANYONE with a need for a Small Block Chevy!

You sure could. And anyone with any sense at all who just wanted a solid motor for a daily driver would buy a junkyard motor and freshen it for half the price. And if your a racer, buy a brand new crate. They are only three grand brand new.

 

[Dean]

You are calling the difference between an entry fee and to start money a profit?! What in the hell is the matter with you, how about tow money and pit passes, wear on equipment, you people will put out any statement that you think will be positive propaganda for your scheeme. You do not care about the cost of racing, you people are simply trying to make money off of racers and fans. What you are calling profit is your actuall to start money in plain english; $35.00 to start the feature. Call it what it its, If you have enough cars for a semi, and someone has a bad night, what do they get, $100 entry fee, and nothing(-$100,00+what it cost to race a night). At least most series that have a entry fee pay more than the entry fee to start the semi. At first I thought you people were for the racer, and the more stuff you say the more I see through you, the bill of goods you are trying to sell people is a ripoff. For the racer the savings in initial engine expense will be eaten in new flywheels, lighter rotating parts, entry fees, lower payouts, and travel expense, while you will be making a fat profit from entry fees, membership and kick backs from goodyear.

 

[cngracin]

Todd,

SMART ARSE!

Well, my rather longwinded response (and maybe a bit smart area too ) was getting to the point that the crate engine p/n 602 $2995 for 355 HP is not a screaming race engine that can only be practically used on the race track. ... or the 604 at 400 HP is not outragous to use in a street vehicle. You made it seem like, once you have a create engine the only market you have to sell one is to other “crate racers.” Try selling a competitive UPM late model engine to anyone OTHER than a racer. I don’t think you’ll find any other useful applications.