OT: Bush is an embarrassment - what a piece of crap

"Like I said in my post, due to Daddy's friends covering his butt it is impossible to prove one way or the other. Records can be doctored and have been. Can you prove there wasn't a coverup? Like I said where there is smoke.........If it walks like a duck....... There is just too much in question and too many favors being done. "Meeting his obligations" doesn't disprove that he didn't report for one year."

Well, if you are going to turn into a 'Grand Conspiracy' theorist, and start saying things like Bush is so powerful he can have entire chunks of his records doctored, hushes people up, and all that kind of stuff, then the whole thing just moves so far out into the twilight zone as to not even be a debate.
 
t.nie said:
Of course, if Clinton were appointing Haliburton, it would be ok, the best company for the job.
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I can't imagine why he would have done that since his vice president was not the former CEO....... But, if that had happened when Clinton was in office, I would have had a problem with it then too. So, no that is not a true statement. What happened to your argument about a free market economy. Seriously reversing your own opinions now just to a win an unwinnable argument. Have fun.
 
So you have a problem with the best company for the job getting it, too? I am all for the free market, but when it comes to picking the company to do a government contract, there is this little thing called vetting that has to take place, to ensure the company that is awarded the billions in taxpayer dollars is not some fly by night outfit staffed and run by incompetent fools.

You say Haliburton gets it because Cheney was a former CEO? I say Haliburton gets it because they meet all the qualifications necessary to handle the rebuilding of an entire city.

Can you name me two other construction corporations capable of rebuilding the entire city of New Orleans? Go on, you seem to think there are just hundreds of other companies who are not being considered, name me two with the required credentials to handle a disaster of this magnitude, a proven track record, material assets, infrastructure and capablity at this time to rebuild an entire city, remove the flood water, assess the damage to the infrastructure and formulate a plan of action that will be effecient, cost effective, and get the job done in a timely manner.

Name two. And then tell me all about how long it will take to vet your choices. After all, this is your tax money they are going to spend on these companies, your dollars in action, and you will of course DEMAND effeciency and cost effectiveness since it is your money they are spending on it. And that means vetting, which is time consuming and expensive.

Or, we could just go with Haliburton, a company that meets and EXCEEDS ALL of the necessary qualifications already. But then, using an existing vetted company with a proven track record of getting the job done would not be using that round blob above the neck, it is just be padding the pockets of Cheney's buddies. How silly to think that picking the best company for the job, a company that can start right now at getting the city back on it's feet so that the people of New Orleans can get home sometime before they die, could be anything but favoritism.
 
Honestly, you all sound like my kids no matter what the other one says you will never agree so why dont you agree to disagree? I will say this much it is interesting to keep watching this thread to see what you guys keep digging up on your facts and theories and what not's!!!!
 
Because, trucker boy, this is not something you can "agree to disagree" on. Now, if we were talking the flavor of ice cream, the best band EVER, or what the greatest play is by Shakespeare, then of course it is all subjective and we could agree to disagree. But the bottom line on Bush, the National Guard, drugs and booze is factual, not opinion or choice based. I cannot choose to say Bush never had a big booze habit. He did. And I won't cop out on the whole issue by saying "we'll just agree to disagree" on whether or not Bush was busted for coke. He wasn't, and there never was a shred of evidence to prove he was. So it aint about agreeing to disagree, it's about finding FACTS and presenting them to support your stance.

I won't agree to disagree on what the facts demonstrate. Period. Until such time as someone can come on here and post some legitimate factual evidence from a credible source to the contrary, then there is nothing to agree to disagree on.
 
"So you have a problem with the best company for the job getting it, too? "

NOT AT ALL! That is not what I said. I believe other companies should have been given the opportunity to at least bid the job. That is what free-market means.

"I am all for the free market, but when it comes to picking the company to do a government contract, there is this little thing called vetting that has to take place, to ensure the company that is awarded the billions in taxpayer dollars is not some fly by night outfit staffed and run by incompetent fools."

THANK YOU once again. You think you know something no one else does. Yes, I am aware of the process and I do believe other companies are out there who could also stand up to the arduous process.

"Can you name me two other construction corporations capable of rebuilding the entire city of New Orleans?"

NO I CANNOT. I am not as expert as you on everything. But I do believe that there are others out there who could survive the vetting process and at least offer a competitive package. But, since none were allowed to even bid the question is moot, now isn't it?


"How silly to think that picking the best company for the job could be anything but favoritism."

SILLY? Did you really say silly? I am all for picking the best company for the job provided all candidates are considered. No others were even considered.
 
truthfully there are many companys across the US that could rebuild the city.a couple of stl area companies such as cleco,ahal,abericci,ect,not to mention all the other companies from new york to california..combine all of there specialty's and i see no problem in AMERICA rebuilding the city!
 
DieHardDirtFan said:
"So you have a problem with the best company for the job getting it, too? "

NOT AT ALL! That is not what I said. I believe other companies should have been given the opportunity to at least bid the job. That is what free-market means.

"I am all for the free market, but when it comes to picking the company to do a government contract, there is this little thing called vetting that has to take place, to ensure the company that is awarded the billions in taxpayer dollars is not some fly by night outfit staffed and run by incompetent fools."

THANK YOU once again. You think you know something no one else does. Yes, I am aware of the process and I do believe other companies are out there who could also stand up to the arduous process.

"Can you name me two other construction corporations capable of rebuilding the entire city of New Orleans?"

NO I CANNOT. I am not as expert as you on everything. But I do believe that there are others out there who could survive the vetting process and at least offer a competitive package. But, since none were allowed to even bid the question is moot, now isn't it?


"How silly to think that picking the best company for the job could be anything but favoritism."

SILLY? Did you really say silly? I am all for picking the best company for the job provided all candidates are considered. No others were even considered.
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Ok, let's back up here. You were the biggest mouth on here criticizing the current administration of not acting fast enough. Now you want to slow the whole rebuilding/reconstruction process down by inviting all and sundry who have construction experience to bid on the job of rebuilding the entire city. So, which is it? You want what? The job done in a timely manner by a vetted company capable of doing the job effeciently, or do you want to drag the whole thing out by making the disaster a free for all for construction companies making a buck?

The bottom line with just about anything and everything you post is one recurring theme: Bush bad, Bush Bad, Bush bad, Bush bad. It doesn't matter what the guy does, you will find some way to criticize. No matter how absurd or ridiculous the criticism.

Can't name any companies capable, but you're sure they are out there. Oh, really? If it were me making that statement, I would be able to back it up. But that's ok, you just ignore that little inconvenience.

Tell me this too. Is Haliburton incapable of doing the job? Will Haliburton make a mess of it, leave it unfinished, or not done to the required standard? Will Haliburton waste millions of taxpayers money (the same way you would if put in charge of tendering the contracts by insisting that the whole process be put out to anyone and everyone who wants to bid on it)? Is Haliburton a bad choice? And if so, why? And when you answer, tell me why Haliburton will be a bad choice based on factual evidence, not because Haliburton's former CEO is Cheney. If all you can come up with is Haliburton is a bad choice because of Cheney, that's just pathetic.
 
Not wanting to get into a political bashing here but has anyone ever priced a hammer from Haliburton ? WOW !!! Makes Home Depot and Lowes look like a flea market LOL!!!
 
t.nie said:
How silly to think that picking the best company for the job, a company that can start right now at getting the city back on it's feet so that the people of New Orleans can get home sometime before they die, could be anything but favoritism.
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And if you are going to quote me, use the whole quote. Editing my quotes to make it say what you want it to say is not quoting me. I think you are capable of at least that much courtesy, if nothing else.
 
Yes. You are right. I apologize for the edit. The other stuff seemed superfluous to me because just last week you didn't seem to give a crap about the poor people of New Orleans or the city itself. But there again, you reverse yourself when it suits your "argument". What I wrote was my impression of what you said and you are correct it should not have been in quotations. I stand corrected.

I was not saying "all and sundry who have construction experience" should apply for the job. My point is and was, others who are qualified should have been allowed to bid. There is in place a normal bidding process that should not have been waived in this instance as you know it was. That is purely my opinion. No I cannot name any companies but I also do not know how to handle molten lead, which I understand you do. I concede that... (see I am not that hard to get along with). I could spend time researching the obvious corporations, but I don't really see the point since none of them were even allowed to bid anyway. If you mean to imply that there is only one company in America who is capable of handling this enormous task then you are even more naive than I am and I am pretty naive. And we should all be looking at our free market econony a bit more closely.

Is Haliburton incapable of doing the job. How the hell should I know? I am just saying that others should have been allowed to make a proposal. That is my point. I have repeated it at least 8 times. I was never attacking the company itself. Do you know what the appearance of impropriety means? Of course you do.
 
t.nie said:
Ok, let's back up here. You were the biggest mouth on here criticizing the current administration of not acting fast enough. Now you want to slow the whole rebuilding/reconstruction process down by inviting all and sundry who have construction experience to bid on the job of rebuilding the entire city. So, which is it? You want what?
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My criticism was the loss of lives caused by the delay. I do not believe a couple months in construction delay is going to cost any more lives. LIVES were what I was talking about. People - not objects.
 
6,000 veiws,and 300 replies and still no different then the first post,everyone still has their opinion no matter what,and neither side has gotten anymore credible info then the other.
 
AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS A RACING BOARD! :confused: :D


IF BUSH, CLINTON, KERRY, OLD MAN BUSH, AND JIMMY CARTER WERE TO BE IN IDENTICAL LATE MODELS WHO WOULD WIN THE RACE? :D
 
Oh, look. This from the HalliburtonWatch.org site.

Halliburton gets Katrina contract, hires former FEMA director
1 Sept. 2005
WASHINGTON, Sept. 1 (HalliburtonWatch.org) -- The US Navy asked Halliburton to repair naval facilities damaged by Hurricane Katrina, the Houston Chronicle reported today. The work was assigned to Halliburton's KBR subsidiary under the Navy's $500 million CONCAP contract awarded to KBR in 2001 and renewed in 2004. The repairs will take place in Louisiana and Mississippi.

KBR has not been asked to repair the levees destroyed in New Orleans which became the primary cause of most of the damage.aWonder why Halliburton didn't get this contract? Must have dropped the ball on the bribnery front, or didn't get the call in to Cheney this time.

Since 1989governments worldwide have awarded $3 billion in contracts to KBR's Government and Infrastructure Division to clean up damage caused by natural and man-made disasters.( so Halliburton getting contracts to rebuild stuff is not something that just started happening when Bush got elected with Cheney, it was actually happening long before then. Or so it would seem?

Earlier this year, the Navy awarded $350 million in contracts to KBR and three other companies(this would seem to indicate that a Halliburton company was just one of 4 companies to get contracts... so much for being the favored contractor, it gets you a slice, but not the whole pie, as many would claim. Guess those other three companies who got contracts are part of some grand Halliburton conglomerate too, huh? Seems to me if that were the case, then the names of those companies would be listed here too. But hey, maybe the author decided to just leave it out this time to be nice to the corporation the entire site is dedicated to hating. to repair naval facilities in northwest Florida damaged by Hurricane Ivan, which struck in September 2004. The ongoing repair work involves aircraft support facilities, medium industrial buildings, marine construction, mechanical and electrical improvements, civil construction, and family housing renovation.

In March, the former director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), which is tasked with responding to hurricane disasters, became a lobbyist for KBR. Joe Allbaugh was director of FEMA during the first two years of the Bush administration.

Today, FEMA is widely criticized for its slow response to the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

Allbaugh managed Bush's campaign for Texas governor in 1994, served as Gov. Bush's chief of staff and was the national campaign manager for the Bush campaign in 2000. Along with Karen Hughes and Karl Rove, Allbaugh was one of Bush's closest advisers.

"This is a perfect example of someone cashing in on a cozy political relationship," said Scott Amey, general counsel at the Project on Government Oversight, a Washington watchdog group. "Allbaugh's former placement as a senior government official and his new lobbying position with KBR strengthens the company's already tight ties to the administration, and I hope that contractor accountability is not lost as a result." Ok, Scott, but now explain why a Halliburton company was one of four awarded contracts, why the contracts to Halliburton companies go back to 1989, years before Bush was elected, etc... Guess there goes your "cashing in on the cozy relationship" theory.
 
racer94 said:
6,000 veiws,and 300 replies and still no different then the first post,everyone still has their opinion no matter what,and neither side has gotten anymore credible info then the other.
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On the contrary. What I see is that none of the Bush bashers can offer anything that is credible to bash him with, so now we just resort to claiming that no one is offering anything credible. BS, I have put up a LOT of credible sources to back up my claims. But in all honesty, I am the only person who has. It takes a little effort to find good credible sources that will stand up to scrutiny. Especially when there are none to back up the claims that Bush is an awol drunk and all that nonsense.
 
.your info is no better then any of the bush bashers,both are from a personal opinion person.you may think they cant stretch the truth but the fact is they can.look at the enquir.everything they write about is so far from the truth it isnt even funny,they have never gotten in trouble nor sued..so are you saying bush isnt a drunk dope smoking individual.is it or is it not fact that he has admitted that??
 
to back up the fact that he was indeed a druggie,here is an original document suspending him for failure to comply with a drug test,if he wasnt a bass head then why did he not take the drug test.frankly i would never turn down a drug test,if you do you have something to hide..right??

http://www.realchange.org/bushgrnd.gif
 
dirtgirl said:
Back to the important non political question how much does Haliburton charge for a hammer? :confused:
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More than Halley Berry would charge for a hummer! :eek: :D

Tim

(Hummer, as in the truck! Get your mind out of the gutter!)
 
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