Street stock tech!
- Thread starter Pate11
- Start date
It sounds like one or all of the racks need to have a joint meeting with all of the ss racers some time shortly after the season is over and get everyone to agree on a set of rules for all 4ish tracks. So we will have all winter to make the necessary changes. Is this possible? I would love Some track owner/promoter feed back on this
racin90
Well-Known Member
I personally donot think you can tech too much if your going to keep a class honest. They check everything like mounting points on the chassis, roof line heights, and spring bucket heights. Pretty good techs they have too and they do put on a great show with good consistant car counts
havoline28
Active Member
A very good respectable conversation going on in this thread. This is what's going to take to keep this class going. Start with a conversation come up with a plan then implement the plan. Have a couple of guys go to these promoters and pitch your plan. Go with the names of people who are on board with your plan.
RACN911
Well-Known Member
Until someone races street tires and goes out beats someone with Hoosiers the vast majority will continue to run Hoosiers unless the track makes street tires mandatory ( which I don't see them doing since they get a check from Hoosier every year). I do think that we have a very respectable and good rules package for our current street stock class. I do think that they could tech a little more but late nights usually dictate that. the motor set back, clutches, carbs, clicker rear ends are so simple to tech that for me the top 3 should be teched weekly. Some of these cars seem pretty snappy for stock clutches. But that's just my opinion.
Swappin Paint
Active Member
Well to me if you're goona make rules you are obligated to tech them and tech them well. If it requires having more than one tech official so be it. If not you are doing those who abide by them an injustice and aiding those who don't. If tech is subpar you might as well have a run what u brung class. everyone will know the playing field then......JMO
faustfan2
Active Member
The 14 car that finished third is a woman. Her name is Leah Wroten. Last year she was the first woman in 30 years to qualify for the SuperNationals in Boone,Ia. That is a 602 crate motor with a cast iron 2 barrell intake and a 2G rochester carb in that car. Give her more seat time and she would have gotten them boys. That car is pretty much stock except for 2 things. You also have to remember in IMCA in the hobby stocks the cant add weight or have weight jacks or off set wheels. There is a big difference in their hobby stocks compared to ours. There front loop on the halo can only be so many inches back from the farthest point of the top amd other things. Those are true hobby stocks there.
faustfan2
Active Member
Yes. Their motors in the street stocks are different than U.M.P but i think the I.M.C.A street stocks could very easily come run with U.M.P cars and win. Oh and in the I.M.C.A hobby stocks if you run a 602 crate you can run a MSD box with a chip in it. I may be wrong on this but i think you have to run a 6500 rpm chip, it could be a 6200 chip but im not 100% positive which one it is.
This pretty much what we have right now. Which imo is why the class is dying I know guys that 15k+ in a ss car just so they can keep up. To me you shouldn't have much more than 5 or 6k in one. And that's mostly the drivetrain cost. Its just gotten to out of hand with the rules and lack of tech
t.nie
Patience Tester
Matt, I haven't named any single driver on this thread and said "this specific guy was buying new tires."
But my memory, and my archives of photos from those seasons, are very clear. Now of course I wasn't at every track every night, because I was racing too at that time, so I can't speak for what was going on at Highland or Belle Clair. The majority of my first hand, personal observations are from TCS and Godfrey and when I say the front runners, I am referring to the guys who won fairly often at those tracks. I recall on a few occasions a bit of a scramble to get the Avenger because sometimes places would sell out, and talking to other racers who were scratching their heads at where to buy them.
I remember spending a fair amount of time scouring junkyards for them because I couldn't afford to go buy new. Good luck with that.... lol
I only mentioned you because I can still see in my mind very clearly you going into turn one at the old TCS inner 1/4 mile track, on one of the very few nights you raced there if my memory is correct, and being amazed at how crushed the right front was. I seem to recall you smoking everyone by quite a bit in that heat race too, like half a lap, which in and of itself was pretty astonishing.
But my mention of you was not to say you were running new tires to win, but as an example of the forces on a RF in an SS and why, on bigger tracks at higher turn in speeds, it might not be a good idea to be running street tires and there may be liability with the tracks owners if they did mandate a street tire.
I also remember when the hornets came about and they mandated 50 psi for the first couple years, until someone, somewhere realized that 50 psi was considerably over the recommended safe tire inflation from the manufacturer and by mandating 50 psi, the track promoter was creating huge liability for themselves should a tire fail at that track mandated pressure and someone get hurt. Can anyone say "lawsuit?"
I think the rules allowing both cover the promoter. That puts it in the driver's corner to make the decision to run street tires, and if something goes wrong, the easy out is "you could have run a tire made for racing, you didn't have to be on a street tire, that was your choice."
To me the bottom line is this. Guys with money spend whatever it takes to win. Doesn't matter if it's street tires, Hoosiers, Goodyears, tractor tires, bicycle tires, or any other kind of tire. When most go to make a decision what tires to bolt on, most are going to buy new ones if they have the money, no matter what species of tire the track mandates. Why would a racer skimp on tires if they have a lot of money in the rest of their operation? I spent a lot of money on HP, gearings, shocks, springs, carb work, but I am going to save money on tires by buying used crap? I don't see that.
So going back to street tires solves nothing. The guys who have the dough are still going to figure out the very best tire out there to race on (probably through trial and error, bolting various tires on or going with what is a known good performing tire until something else comes along that's better), and that is what they are going to have on their car. Regardless of cost.
So my reasoning is why not make it a single brand of racing tire, make it something readily available new and used, and something that everyone knows what to expect from it. But don't be surprised when the guys out front are buying more new tires more often than those who can't afford it. And don't be surprised when those guys win races too, because chances are if they have money to spend, they aren't just buying shiny new tires to race on. They probably have a lot of other stuff the back markers don't have, too.
I guess I just don't see the difference between a used street tire or a used Hoosier, or a new street tire or a new Hoosier. Unless the Hoosiers are selling for three times the cost of the street tire (and my memory of it was that Hoosiers were so close in cost to street tires I couldn't understand why weren't racing on them 10 years ago anyway) I don't see anything gained but maybe a little more safety risk going back to street tires.
But my memory, and my archives of photos from those seasons, are very clear. Now of course I wasn't at every track every night, because I was racing too at that time, so I can't speak for what was going on at Highland or Belle Clair. The majority of my first hand, personal observations are from TCS and Godfrey and when I say the front runners, I am referring to the guys who won fairly often at those tracks. I recall on a few occasions a bit of a scramble to get the Avenger because sometimes places would sell out, and talking to other racers who were scratching their heads at where to buy them.
I remember spending a fair amount of time scouring junkyards for them because I couldn't afford to go buy new. Good luck with that.... lol
I only mentioned you because I can still see in my mind very clearly you going into turn one at the old TCS inner 1/4 mile track, on one of the very few nights you raced there if my memory is correct, and being amazed at how crushed the right front was. I seem to recall you smoking everyone by quite a bit in that heat race too, like half a lap, which in and of itself was pretty astonishing.
But my mention of you was not to say you were running new tires to win, but as an example of the forces on a RF in an SS and why, on bigger tracks at higher turn in speeds, it might not be a good idea to be running street tires and there may be liability with the tracks owners if they did mandate a street tire.
I also remember when the hornets came about and they mandated 50 psi for the first couple years, until someone, somewhere realized that 50 psi was considerably over the recommended safe tire inflation from the manufacturer and by mandating 50 psi, the track promoter was creating huge liability for themselves should a tire fail at that track mandated pressure and someone get hurt. Can anyone say "lawsuit?"
I think the rules allowing both cover the promoter. That puts it in the driver's corner to make the decision to run street tires, and if something goes wrong, the easy out is "you could have run a tire made for racing, you didn't have to be on a street tire, that was your choice."
To me the bottom line is this. Guys with money spend whatever it takes to win. Doesn't matter if it's street tires, Hoosiers, Goodyears, tractor tires, bicycle tires, or any other kind of tire. When most go to make a decision what tires to bolt on, most are going to buy new ones if they have the money, no matter what species of tire the track mandates. Why would a racer skimp on tires if they have a lot of money in the rest of their operation? I spent a lot of money on HP, gearings, shocks, springs, carb work, but I am going to save money on tires by buying used crap? I don't see that.
So going back to street tires solves nothing. The guys who have the dough are still going to figure out the very best tire out there to race on (probably through trial and error, bolting various tires on or going with what is a known good performing tire until something else comes along that's better), and that is what they are going to have on their car. Regardless of cost.
So my reasoning is why not make it a single brand of racing tire, make it something readily available new and used, and something that everyone knows what to expect from it. But don't be surprised when the guys out front are buying more new tires more often than those who can't afford it. And don't be surprised when those guys win races too, because chances are if they have money to spend, they aren't just buying shiny new tires to race on. They probably have a lot of other stuff the back markers don't have, too.
I guess I just don't see the difference between a used street tire or a used Hoosier, or a new street tire or a new Hoosier. Unless the Hoosiers are selling for three times the cost of the street tire (and my memory of it was that Hoosiers were so close in cost to street tires I couldn't understand why weren't racing on them 10 years ago anyway) I don't see anything gained but maybe a little more safety risk going back to street tires.
t.nie
Patience Tester
I also agree with what someone else mentioned earlier on the B mods pulling racers away from the SS class. I can see that. I think if I were going to race anything at the tracks I used to race at, I would probably be interested most in B Mods. Most guys, myself included, prefer to race in a class that has a lot of people in it.
Honestly though, I have been looking at Microsprints lately and that is hugely attractive where I live now. 2 good tracks close by, some other tracks a little further away, and Du Quoin in the winter. And motorcycle engines, which from the looks of things are quite a bit less expensive to run and maintain than a full blown V8. They just look like a lot of fun and fairly economical compared to an SS or LM or Mod.
Honestly though, I have been looking at Microsprints lately and that is hugely attractive where I live now. 2 good tracks close by, some other tracks a little further away, and Du Quoin in the winter. And motorcycle engines, which from the looks of things are quite a bit less expensive to run and maintain than a full blown V8. They just look like a lot of fun and fairly economical compared to an SS or LM or Mod.
faustfan2
Active Member
The only problem i have with switching to a b-mod is im 6'4" and 300lbs, (yea i know a lard ass) but i cant just fit in any car out there. When i get a car it has to be built around me. The ss i have now was built around me. Trust me i see the ss dying off here real quick if we as drivers and promotors dont do something quck. I can afford a b-mod but i just cant fit in one is the problem i have. I had to go up to Iowa to have mine built because not one person around here would build me one. Most said it was to much of a hassle to change the way they built them so i was forced to go elsewhere. I know what i have in mine and i know what a majority of drivers have in their b-mods and trust me its alot less then i have in my car!
Not to call you out on this but the Hoosier sidewall is one of the weakest that i have seen. When we ran our car on the Indy 500 tire we had no problem with it rolling over. With 14psi in it. But when we switched to Hoosier because we had to we have to put no less than 18psi in it to keep it from rolling over ( we have even lighted the car since then) and at 20 psi the tire starts bouncing in the turn. We have a very fine line to run the tire in. the Hoosiers are actually causing us more problems than there fixing.
t.nie
Patience Tester
I am not making an argument for "you guys should run Hoosiers, it's the best tire" at all. I am just the type of tire has nothing to do with curbing costs, unless one type of tire (say a racing tire versus a street tire) is excessively more expensive than another. But last time I looked, the Hoosiers weren't far off a good street tire anyway. So how is a street tire saving money?
Someone mentioned Goodyears were run at some point? If those were the modified tires, All I can say is "You're welcome." I thought they were an excellent tire for Bomber/SS racing. And I think the guy selling them was probably way happier with his cut that what Hoosier was paying too. I didn't think they were ever approved for use in competition in the Bomber class though. I could be mistaken, I just remember delivering the tires.
Someone mentioned Goodyears were run at some point? If those were the modified tires, All I can say is "You're welcome." I thought they were an excellent tire for Bomber/SS racing. And I think the guy selling them was probably way happier with his cut that what Hoosier was paying too. I didn't think they were ever approved for use in competition in the Bomber class though. I could be mistaken, I just remember delivering the tires.
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DaveMcLain
Active Member
Remember when Hoosier used to offer recap tires for hobby/street stock classes? That was a long time ago but they worked well and many sizes were available.
The Hoosier run about 120 a piece depending on who you get them from and you can buy good streetvtores for about 85 a piece which with us every penny counts. But the biggest thing is it helps keep the big money from running the class. By having us run street tires it will make it a more competitive class for us that don't have a big engine that most likely isn't to the rules. And to be honest when we ran the Indy 500 tire we actually had better lap time with them vs the Hoosier and the indy 500s lasted all year where the Hoosiers don't at all. So if you do the math and say you go through 2 sets of Hoosiers and 1 set of 500s ( just doing this for easy numbers) 120 a piece for the Hoosiers ×8 =$960. And 85 a piece for the 500 ×4= $340. And idk about every else but we have never brought home $960 in a season. Not that you make money racing. But even if you do win you maybe 250 depending on the track and by the time u do the math and figure out fuel and entry cost that 250 is pretty much the break even point.
Sorry for off topic a bit but yes the street tires are way more affordable and make it more competitive which is what a majority of us seem to want. But that's just my opinion
JHOP
Active Member
Just asking not trying to start a argument. If you had better lap times with the Indy then why did you not keep running them instead of the Hoosiers?
