Street stock tech!

t.nie said:
The idea of creating a unified set of rules and then doing a multiple track championship is great in theory, but in reality most of the guys running in that class just want to race at a local track, not some touring thing even if it is a very limited radius of traveling. You'd get a handful, like 5, that would go to different tracks to run for some kind of combined points thing but the rest would just run at their home track. And probably jump for joy when the "touring guys" took off for another track on a given night.

If you do that, you really aren't solving a cost problem, just creating more costs for anyone who wants to run it. Because you aren't going to run the same setup and gearing at a place like TCS that you run at Belle Clair, and Highland is a little different again. So you'd get guys creating setups, shock, springs, or at the very least changing gears, etc for each track and then it just increases the amount of money to win, not curb costs. Plus additional travel money because no matter what tracks you choose, it is going to put some tracks a further distance away to race in it.

Throw in that you have to convince promoters to go along with a unified set of rules, which is unlikely because promoters want you to a certain extent to be limited as to where you can run so they can count on a certain level of support each week from that class (after all, they have a business to run too and they already know the LM and Mod guys can go anywhere each weekend) and you're probably biting off way more than anyone can chew. And the promoters are probably not going to go for it, so that pretty much nixes it before you even start. It doesn't help them at all.
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It is working for the Big 10 series in the street stocks. They run several different tracks and its working for them so its not really nixed before it gets started. Those guys travel a 100 miles or more at times to different tracks and they still go, so i dont see it being a problem oh and not to mention they have a set of unfied rules. Although it may be the same rules that U.M.P has sat forward but its still a set of rules. Not sure if your aware of it or not but the very class we are having this discussion about is the only class that is U.M.P sanctioned that doesnt have a set of rules per U.M.P. We in this area cant take off and go run other tracks if we was to choose to because in this class other tracks other than the 4 stated earlier pretty much run different rules! We all need to be on the same playing field in this class. I bet you would be suprised at just how many cars would show up if we was all on the same page. Heck even if you would pay $500 to win at these shows that we mentioned it would be worth your time to atleast travel. Thats another thing i think that needs to change. This class is well deserving of atleast $250 to win from every track. Tri City atleast stepped up and went $200 to win and the rest stayed at $125 to win. Its time to evolve.
 
If we were to go to the ump rules we would be out. We just simply can't afford to run the ump street stock rules and also if the track is 100 miles away which browns town is we wouldn't go that's just to much driving for a beginer, average Joe class. Altho I do like the idea of a joint points fund for those tracks I think that would be great and there's only a few things wrongs with the rules we have now imo so if we where to keep them close to what we have now and do the joint points I think it would be sucessful. I like the idea of going back on street tires because the Hoosiers are exspensive. We bought 4 New tires last year and a few used ones and we ran them all of last year And this year. We haven't bought any this year it's just not in the budget. A tire you guys are forgetting about is the firehawk wide oval Indy 500 tire. We have used them in the past at highland and they did just as good as the hoosier did and they costed $85 a piece new! But we also don't have a very hot engine so that could be part of it. And wow this thread actually seems like it is accomplishing something
 
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Sounds like a tire shop has the potential for big sponsorship and business if they could source street tires.....


I would think The 4 big tracks in the area wouldn't mind swapping the class around to keep it fresh and on the schedule. Just plan tracks with similar gear in each week. Tri city and I-55 on week and highland Belleville browns town another so guys are swapping gears Saturday before a race.


as a fan I want to see more cars like mcclintocks vintage bodied street stock and that old ford running around. I think with more unique bodies you could get some fan Involement. Like vote your favorite street stock body and he gets a bonus or something. Anything to break up the monotony of monte Carlos
 
I think if the rules didn't favor the gbody so much you would see a better variety of cars coming out! If you look at the rules it seems to really favor those cars which makes sense for the cars that they run. Mclintock isn't at any disadvantage because he is on a gbody chasis but there are a few other older cars that aren't. Also there's the guy running the blazer body And that thing looks mean!!! ( no disrespect to mc clintock I love that car!) but just my 2 cents on that.
 
faustfan2 said:
It is working for the Big 10 series in the street stocks. They run several different tracks and its working for them so its not really nixed before it gets started. Those guys travel a 100 miles or more at times to different tracks and they still go, so i dont see it being a problem oh and not to mention they have a set of unfied rules. Although it may be the same rules that U.M.P has sat forward but its still a set of rules. Not sure if your aware of it or not but the very class we are having this discussion about is the only class that is U.M.P sanctioned that doesnt have a set of rules per U.M.P. We in this area cant take off and go run other tracks if we was to choose to because in this class other tracks other than the 4 stated earlier pretty much run different rules! We all need to be on the same playing field in this class. I bet you would be suprised at just how many cars would show up if we was all on the same page. Heck even if you would pay $500 to win at these shows that we mentioned it would be worth your time to atleast travel. Thats another thing i think that needs to change. This class is well deserving of atleast $250 to win from every track. Tri City atleast stepped up and went $200 to win and the rest stayed at $125 to win. Its time to evolve.
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I guess I would be very surprised at how many cars would show up seeing how few are showing up now compared to years past. It's also kind of contradictory to think that increasing the money to win (which is what every racer in every class at every track under every sanction always says is the "cure" for any class that is struggling with falling car counts) when all that bigger purse does is encourage more spending by those that can afford it to win.

Just look at 4 cylinder hornet racing for a classic example of how purse killed it. The first track that put up $50 to win set the thing on a downward spiral of more money, more HP, more tricks. more refined cars, then increased purse, then more money in cars, then fewer cars. then a handful of professional 4 cylinder racers, wraps, tricked out everything, then dwindling car counts down to nothing.

Big Ten Series is a good example to use, I am glad you brought them up. One thing to note is they are not a stand alone series, but three classes of racing traveling to a few tracks that are relatively close together and from what I see, they are very active at Track Enterprises tracks. So this series appears to be more of a marketing/branding thing to attract people to LM and Mod events at a tracks all controlled by one promoter, and if an SS class races while those guys work on their cars, that helps make it more of a full night event.

So far, after three events, the SS car count has been 12, 21, 15 with a grand total of 4 drivers traveling to compete at all three events so far. I think I estimated that probably 5 drivers would "tour" for points before even looking at that series?

Still, I think that is a great example of what to expect. Promoters around the Stl are already get those kinds of car counts for a weekly purse, so why would they pay more just to get the same guys (remember, only 4 of those guys have travelled to all three events, and looking further, only 9 drivers have made 2 events, the rest just ran one) racing?

Food for thought. I think each track needs to look at how to control costs in the class they promote at their track. And bearing that in mind, I've always thought Allieds rules package was the most cost restrictive, so that might be a good template for other tracks to copy.

The big problem at this point though is the genie is already out of the bottle. Good luck trying to put it back in.
 
t.nie said:
I guess I would be very surprised at how many cars would show up seeing how few are showing up now compared to years past. It's also kind of contradictory to think that increasing the money to win (which is what every racer in every class at every track under every sanction always says is the "cure" for any class that is struggling with falling car counts) when all that bigger purse does is encourage more spending by those that can afford it to win.

Just look at 4 cylinder hornet racing for a classic example of how purse killed it. The first track that put up $50 to win set the thing on a downward spiral of more money, more HP, more tricks. more refined cars, then increased purse, then more money in cars, then fewer cars. then a handful of professional 4 cylinder racers, wraps, tricked out everything, then dwindling car counts down to nothing.

Big Ten Series is a good example to use, I am glad you brought them up. One thing to note is they are not a stand alone series, but three classes of racing traveling to a few tracks that are relatively close together and from what I see, they are very active at Track Enterprises tracks. So this series appears to be more of a marketing/branding thing to attract people to LM and Mod events at a tracks all controlled by one promoter, and if an SS class races while those guys work on their cars, that helps make it more of a full night event.

So far, after three events, the SS car count has been 12, 21, 15 with a grand total of 4 drivers traveling to compete at all three events so far. I think I estimated that probably 5 drivers would "tour" for points before even looking at that series?

Still, I think that is a great example of what to expect. Promoters around the Stl are already get those kinds of car counts for a weekly purse, so why would they pay more just to get the same guys (remember, only 4 of those guys have travelled to all three events, and looking further, only 9 drivers have made 2 events, the rest just ran one) racing?

Food for thought. I think each track needs to look at how to control costs in the class they promote at their track. And bearing that in mind, I've always thought Allieds rules package was the most cost restrictive, so that might be a good template for other tracks to copy.

The big problem at this point though is the genie is already out of the bottle. Good luck trying to put it back in.
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I agree with you Tnie, but how can you get any more cost effective rules than tri city street stock?? Stock heads, stock crank , rods, intake , hyd cam , etc.These are the the same rules we had back when we started in 03.We had a 390 410 lift rule back then , but same cost.We had to run street tires,back then though. Tires lasted all year if you didn't cut one, and i agree with pate 11. I wish they were back on street tires..I think the B mods really cut down on the pure stock count .We always had a consi, and 20 plus cars every week back then.
 
Tom Haeffner said:
I agree with you Tnie, but how can you get any more cost effective rules than tri city street stock?? Stock heads, stock crank , rods, intake , hyd cam , etc.These are the the same rules we had back when we started in 03.We had a 390 410 lift rule back then , but same cost.We had to run street tires,back then though. Tires lasted all year if you didn't cut one, and i agree with pate 11. I wish they were back on street tires..I think the B mods really cut down on the pure stock count .We always had a consi, and 20 plus cars every week back then.
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If you think that those street stocks at Tri City are "stock" you havent been to a race there in a few years!
 
millz said:
If we were to go to the ump rules we would be out. We just simply can't afford to run the ump street stock rules and also if the track is 100 miles away
which browns town is we wouldn't go that's just to much driving for a beginer, average Joe class. Altho I do like the idea of a joint points fund for those tracks I think that would be great and there's only a few things wrongs with the rules we have now imo so if we where to keep them close to what we have now and do the joint points I think it would be sucessful. I like the idea of going back on street tires because the Hoosiers are exspensive. We bought 4 New tires last year and a few used ones and we ran them all of last year And this year. We haven't bought any this year it's just not in the budget. A tire you guys are forgetting about is the firehawk wide oval Indy 500 tire. We have used them in the past at highland and they did just as good as the hoosier did and they costed $85 a piece new! But we also don't have a very hot engine so that could be part of it. And wow this thread actually seems like it is accomplishing something
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I didn't forget about the. Firestone Indy 500 Wide Oval. It has been discontinued due to lack of sales. The style of street tires that works best for that class are the style for the older hot rods. If you was able to run 16" wheels that would open up all kinds of possibilities. I'm not trying to be a downer on the street tires. I would love seeing them on street tires it would increase summer sales and I also prefer them. I've been doing tires for 17 years and seen the way tires are going.
 
Obviously everyone that has posted on this thread care about the class greatly and that's really what it needs!! Gotta get more racecars and fans to the tracks. The teaching situation will never be perfect but all you can do is support the tracks and what they do to give us places to race. I would love to see 20+ cars at tracks again and I think that can happen even if you have a car that may not win bring it out, bring as many friends and family as you can and just enjoy it. Sometimes I think some of us really take advantage of having some really good places to race in this area.
 
ALCOHOL said:
AJ Kline,,they will be after you now,,LOL
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Alcohol we are having a intelligent conversation here we dont need your sarcastic bullshit here! If you have nothing positive to say towards this conversation just move on down to the next story! And to answer your question i know what AJ is running!
 
Great post and i totally agree! Thing is something needs done quick. Class car counte are dropping bad and they had 4 hornets show up at tri city past night. 4! Throwing more money into the purse in my opinion will hurt more than help the class. Yes its a bigger badder brass ring to try to get but it will just make people with $$$'s throw more $$$'s at their cars and may even see people drop down classes to run that one. Jmo and might be wrong. Im a huge supporter of throwing them back on street tires. Yes the 15's are harder to get locally but.....ebay has a butload of them cheap cheap cheap. And street tires last longer than hoosiers. A man could make some coins if they swapped to street tires and kept them in stock. I just ordered 4 goodyear 235 70 15's drop shipped to my door for $175. There is one hoosier plus a little of another right there. I realize part of the deal is to get people to buy hoosiers as they are a supporter of ump. But its coming to the time where if you can save dollars to save a class go for it. Put them on oem shocks too! I can get oem shocks $25 cheaper than a racing shock. When allowed the "adjustable spring spacers" thats when i feel the class took a downturn. Clearly wasnt legal at the time according to the rule books yet it was amended to "make it happen". People were getting tired of altered roof lines. Firewalls not in stock locations then that. I know of 2 cars that said enough is enough and they just quit. Its not a sportsman class. Its a "street stock" class and should be treated as so. Slap them on street tires and oem shocks. Start inspecting the motors closer! Start checking tell tale tachs. If it says they are pulling 7200 then you need to find out how they are doing that. It can be done yes. But it goes back to spending stupid money on a "beginners" class. Jmo and will most likely differ with most
 
I just got 4-225-70-15's for $285 shipped to me for another guy. Same company off ebay im dealing with. Same brand of tire. Now i have to shop around and sometimes i get lucky when noone else bids but point is the 15's are still out there and reasonable. 4 goodyears would be well over $600
 
Just wondering
BWRC said:
On street tires in 2001 at the world street stock championship in Ohio, we were allowed Hoosier e-mod tires, everyone was on them but one guy who was on BFGoodrich street tires, he went on to win the show lapping the whole field, this tire nowdays is $145 each, costing more than the Hoosiers, as far as carburetor goes, Jdr carbs has always done our carbs and our legal Rochester flowed 15 cfm less than a willys 500 Holley and on Mullins dyno was no difference, and Dave is right bout hyd cam, after 6300 rpm on dyno it would nose dive off the chart so most are just trying to run to much gear, as far as ump street stocks, the car I built and have won all these shows with down south the rules are more open on everything even roller cams allowed but we still run stock floor pan, stock mount shocks, no wgt jacks, stock four link, and are still beating them with flat tappet cam, it's all about the right combination that fits your driving and your budget, one of the cheapest things on the cars are tires yet some guys run the same ones all year that are not even good enough to start a brush fire but by god they got a $800 wrap on the car, you say you can't afford tires well it's part of it and you have to decide if that class fits your budget, I bought a sportsman for 700$ used all the parts off the roller and sold frame for$400, and saved thousands of dollars, it's possible with hard work and wheelin and dealin!
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Just wondering this rochester carb you used was it stock? Worked on as in had holley jets? Im just curious and not starting anyhing bad. I had a rochester carb and by the time i had new throttle bushings put in and holley jets installed it was well over $500 in cost. I didnt care as it wasnt for me yet i can buy a 4412 right out of the box for around $375 plus tax and bolt it on.
 
Intellegent? LOL. IF YOU WERE SO DAMN SMART YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON HERE. BUT AS ALWAYS GRANDSTAND RACERS ARE THEIR WORST ENEMIES. LOL
 
One thing i will say also is the need to check suspension mounting points. Trailing arm brackets and arms themselves. Upper control arm mounts too. Guys cut and reweld them to get the left front more camber and oem mounting spots make it almost impossib
ALCOHOL said:
Intellegent? LOL. IF YOU WERE SO DAMN SMART YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON HERE. BUT AS ALWAYS GRANDSTAND RACERS ARE THEIR WORST ENEMIES. LOL
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who was that too? I was just offering suggestions and my opinion. I have no skin in the game and if i was to go racing id bypass that class all together anyway
 
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